Another in-flight gear repair

[Let'sgoflying!]

http://www.wftv.com/news/4982688/detail.html

don't try this at home folks, these are professionals!

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

http://www.wftv.com/news/4982688/detail.html

don't try this at home folks, these are professionals!

Outstanding.
And on the first try with the stick.

 

[wsuffa]

Hey, y'all, WATCH THIS!!!

 

[fgcason]

don't try this at home folks, these are professionals!

Professional what? Idgets?

They keep getting away with it, but mark my words, some bonehead is going to either stall or bump into the ground vehicle one of these days.

News reporters on the scene have two scripts pre selected, they don't even have to type it up:
Back page obscure bottom corner: "Hero pilot and hero truck people with a stick save the day, everyone escaped certain death."
Front page giant bold print and giant pictures: "Stupid airplane stunt kills 3"
They don't even have to be there. They just need to know if it landed or crashed.

 

[Henning]

Professional what? Idgets?

They keep getting away with it, but mark my words, some bonehead is going to either stall or bump into the ground vehicle one of these days.

News reporters on the scene have two scripts pre selected, they don't even have to type it up:
Back page obscure bottom corner: "Hero pilot and hero truck people with a stick save the day, everyone escaped certain death."
Front page giant bold print and giant pictures: "Stupid airplane stunt kills 3"
They don't even have to be there. They just need to know if it landed or crashed.

Why? Do you find it difficult to fly straight and level in the air? It's easier to maintain exact altitude close to the gound than up in the air due to the detailed perspective you see. The human brain and nervous system is a wonderful thing, it works very quickly. It wouldn't particularly bother me to do this.

 

[fgcason]

Why? Do you find it difficult to fly straight and level in the air? It's easier to maintain exact altitude close to the gound than up in the air due to the detailed perspective you see. The human brain and nervous system is a wonderful thing, it works very quickly. It wouldn't particularly bother me to do this.

I don't see it being particularly difficult at all, then again, I consider slow flight as something fun to do.

The reason I say that is that there is a fair amount of boneheads out there that will adlib on the spot or pull the hoorah hero pilot routine without thinking too well or get wrapped up in some minor detail and forget about flying the plane properly. People still crash airplanes because a door latch popped loose which in most cases in GA airplanes has zero observable effect on how an airplane flies. Same mindset.

"Dang, I keep outrunning the truck, let me slow down a little more again"...

 

[mikea]

There's also a prop spinning. On a twin the prop is going to be very close to the head(s) of the guy(s) in the truck. The guys in the ground vechile are going 80-90MPH without being strapped in. If it makes quick run to avoid a collision or the end of the runway those guys are going to be ejected from the vehicle.

One of these is going to end with the people in the plane alive, which it would have been anyway, and one or more guys in the ground vehicle dead.

 

[Henning]

The guys in the ground vechile are going 80-90MPH without being strapped in. If it makes quick run to avoid a collision or the end of the runway those guys are going to be ejected from the vehicle.

I've worked up here in seas before, takes a pretty good shot to throw me.

BTW, the picture is of my girl friend and a hand on the Mercator, a museum ship in the port of Oostende in Belgium. The Yacht in the low background with the Q8 stuff was the boat I was running this summer. She was one of the last real state sail training/cadet ships built, and served as a sub tender during WWII, and no, they don't typically let you climb up the rigging, but if you're a true sailor (read you bring a bottle of rum) you can plea your case.

 

[silver-eagle]

I agree that eventually, this stunt (and it IS a stunt) will end tragicly and GA will take a huge hit for it.
The difference between a hero and a fool is who tells the story and how they slant the outcome. And we don't need any imagination to understand the slant.

 

[Henning]

I agree that eventually, this stunt (and it IS a stunt) will end tragicly and GA will take a huge hit for it.
The difference between a hero and a fool is who tells the story and how they slant the outcome. And we don't need any imagination to understand the slant.

Yep, the only difference to the press between hero and idiot is the outcome. A bad outcome of a rare incident like this would not have a net negative effect on GA, it's already what people expect of small planes, to crash burn and 3-5 people die or 2 die and one is hospitalized in critical condition in the crash of a spall 7 seat Cessna Cherokee. That's why when it goes right, people are amazed by it when in reality, it isn't difficult or particularly dangerous when all involved are even reasonably competent.

 

[bbchien]

....people are amazed by it when in reality, it isn't difficult or particularly dangerous when all involved are even reasonably competent.

And that's the core of the problem. Sigh.

 

[Henning]

And that's the core of the problem. Sigh.

I don't really think so. By the time most pilots are flying complex aircraft, they are reasonably competent airmen, as are the ground crews who pull these manuvers.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I don't really think so. By the time most pilots are flying complex aircraft, they are reasonably competent airmen, as are the ground crews who pull these manuvers.

Every pilot should be able to fly down the centerline with minimal variations of course, +/- one foot or so, while in slow flight. It is a common training maneuver.

Other than the pilot flying steady, (pilot doesn't need to see the truck at all) and at least some widely available USA freeway speeding experience, no other specialized "experience " is needed what so ever, as has been shown repeatedly.

I'd say the truck driver needs the most timing and nerve.

 

[bbchien]

I don't really think so. By the time most pilots are flying complex aircraft, they are reasonably competent airmen, as are the ground crews who pull these manuvers.

Well, there's a lot to be said for being able to think on your feet. However, many people who I think can do-it-on-the-fly when push comes to shove just can't hack it. When you have a practice situation, it's pretty eye-opening.

Henning, you obviously are quite good on-the-fly. Some are just NOT. Their thinking process just goes into the tank.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Well, there's a lot to be said for being able to think on your feet. However, many people who I think can do-it-on-the-fly when push comes to shove just can't hack it. When you have a practice situation, it's pretty eye-opening.

Henning, you obviously are quite good on-the-fly. Some are just NOT. Their thinking process just goes into the tank.

Quite true, some are and some are just NOT. And those that aren't good at it are the guys that should sacrifice the plane and belly it in and no one will fault them for it. On the other hand, those that have the skill and nerve to do the maneuver shouldn't be faulted by those that have not got the skill and nerve.

IOW: Those pilots without the skill and nerve shouldn't seek self compensation and pseudo-consolation of their own apprehension in the form of berating those pilots that do have the skill and nerve.

 

[John J]

Wow

It worked out this time and I am glad it did. As Bruce and Dave say so well that there are some of us that can "do it on the fly" and some of us who can't. in this case it worked out for the combination of the individuals involved made it work.
I know in my case I would have just kept the gear up and landed with the proper preperation.

I know after all these years I "cannot do it on the fly".

This reminds me of that old question of "which road do you take; the high road or the low road"? Wow it makes us think and that is what is so important.

John

 

[sere]

Quite true, some are and some are just NOT. And those that aren't good at it are the guys that should sacrifice the plane and belly it in and no one will fault them for it. On the other hand, those that have the skill and nerve to do the maneuver shouldn't be faulted by those that have not got the skill and nerve.

IOW: Those pilots without the skill and nerve shouldn't seek self compensation and pseudo-consolation of their own apprehension in the form of berating those pilots that do have the skill and nerve.

You know I have been reading this thread for several days as all of you go back and forth. Your last "IOW" comment takes the cake and now I just have to comment about it. I have not seen anyone berating anyone here but just putting there 2 cents in. As a USAF Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape (SERE) Instructor now retired I was part of hundreds of class A mishaps investigations and clean-up's. Some that just totaled out the aircraft but a lot of them where the pilot and/or other aircrews lost there lives. I can not tell you how many of them lost there lives because they "have the skill and nerve" attitude. But I do know that a great number thought they could save the aircraft all the way into the ground instead of ejecting or bailing out. I believe you might want to go back and look at your CFI tests that deal with attitudes that cause problems. I would expect more from you being a CFII as I have seen you make a lot of good posts. Sorry if I am being hard here but I have seen to much death by those who have the skill and nerve. Planes can be rebuilt or replaced we can't.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

You know I have been reading this thread for several days as all of you go back and forth. Your last "IOW" comment takes the cake and now I just have to comment about it. I have not seen anyone berating anyone here but just putting there 2 cents in. As a USAF Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape (SERE) Instructor now retired I was part of hundreds of class A mishaps investigations and clean-up's. Some that just totaled out the aircraft but a lot of them where the pilot and/or other aircrews lost there lives. I can not tell you how many of them lost there lives because they "have the skill and nerve" attitude. But I do know that a great number thought they could save the aircraft all the way into the ground instead of ejecting or bailing out. I believe you might want to go back and look at your CFI tests that deal with attitudes that cause problems. I would expect more from you being a CFII as I have seen you make a lot of good posts. Sorry if I am being hard here but I have seen to much death by those who have the skill and nerve. Planes can be rebuilt or replaced we can't.

Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it.

Actually, I'd venture to say you witnessed death & destruction mostly by pilots who THOUGHT they had the skill. And even though they had the nerve to TRY, didn't have the JUDGEMENT to know where to draw the line for themselves. The attitude without the apptitude is well, we all know what that is.

Thanks for the suggestion to review but, I needn't review my FAA CRM any more often than I do already to know the difference and more importantly, I knew the difference long before ever flying any aircraft or becoming a II. The skills required by a basic private pilot to do a simple, optional pleasure flight with no unusual challenges that ends up in the NTSB books for a simple but totally preventable error on the PIC's part is no different than some other pilot with higher skill levels making an error at a slightly more demanding level by not knowing where to draw the line in that realm. These rare instances of pulling gear down from the ground while in flight merely provide a picturesque venue for our academic discussion.

They're success (which is substantial) or eventual failure, has no more bearing on PIC decisions to be made by people in the future with different aptitude levels pondering whether to pursue this type of maneuver or simply to get in a plane and start the engine, or any other task of varying complexity in between. Or to go out of the house unsupervised for that matter.

By your logic (and I must use the term loosely here for the purposes of discussion) might we all better just stay at home and out of aircraft entirely -to be safest- regardless of basic PTS skill levels or higher ? People in the public who don't understand even the most conservative flight draw similar conclusions as yours when even routine things go wrong.

However one might attempt explain to them the reality of those normal emergency situations' solutions would serve sufficiently well to explain generically to them the situation under discussion. In all cases, as has been more succinctly stated by other highly experienced pilots here earlier, there would be those that understand, and those that don't understand, along with those that can complete a given task and those that can not.

 

[sere]

Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it.

Actually, I'd venture to say you witnessed death & destruction mostly by pilots who THOUGHT they had the skill. And even though they had the nerve to TRY, didn't have the JUDGEMENT to know where to draw the line for themselves. The attitude without the apptitude is well, we all know what that is.

Thanks for the suggestion to review but, I needn't review my FAA CRM any more often than I do already to know the difference and more importantly, I knew the difference long before ever flying any aircraft or becoming a II. The skills required by a basic private pilot to do a simple, optional pleasure flight with no unusual challenges that ends up in the NTSB books for a simple but totally preventable error on the PIC's part is no different than some other pilot with higher skill levels making an error at a slightly more demanding level by not knowing where to draw the line in that realm. These rare instances of pulling gear down from the ground while in flight merely provide a picturesque venue for our academic discussion.

They're success (which is substantial) or eventual failure, has no more bearing on PIC decisions to be made by people in the future with different aptitude levels pondering whether to pursue this type of maneuver or simply to get in a plane and start the engine, or any other task of varying complexity in between. Or to go out of the house unsupervised for that matter.

By your logic (and I must use the term loosely here for the purposes of discussion) might we all better just stay at home and out of aircraft entirely -to be safest- regardless of basic PTS skill levels or higher ? People in the public who don't understand even the most conservative flight draw similar conclusions as yours when even routine things go wrong.

However one might attempt explain to them the reality of those normal emergency situations' solutions would serve sufficiently well to explain generically to them the situation under discussion. In all cases, as has been more succinctly stated by other highly experienced pilots here earlier, there would be those that understand, and those that don't understand, along with those that can complete a given task and those that can not.

The pilots that I have refered to I would dare say most if not all of them had not only knowledge, experience and skills that far out weight both yours and mine put together but they still did not survive that one situation that they found themselves in because they thought they could save the plane instead of getting out. They suffered from the same logic as you state over and over. Staying in our homes to be safe has nothing to do with this thread. Using good common sense is something I know I can not explain to you or any other pilot who thinks they have great skill and knowledge. You are right that I will not ever understand what you refer to as the right logic of placing the value of the plane over the value of life. Maybe one day you will pick up the pieces up of someone you respect who thought they to we the gift to aviation. I hope not and hope it never happens to you. And just a side note since you made the statement that you think that the general public and I have the same experience level. In the last 6 years I have logged over a 1000 hours and hold lots of certifications and ratings not that means anything. I would also say that I fly as many if not more different aircraft types than the average CFI. I have been involved in more high speed sports/activities throughout life that require you to put your toes across the edge of a cliff to get the maximum outcome but have never seen the logic of stepping off the cliff to prove how good I am. All I hope from this discussion is that maybe you or anyone else who has read these posts stop's and think's just a second before they make a bad choice that costs life.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Oh, c'mon you guys - let's all try to get 'a loan'!

(maybe I just can't stand disagreements on 'my' thread!)

Anyway, first one to not post a rebuttal gets reputation points! (what else can I offer?)

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

"The pilots that I have refered to I would dare say most if not all of them had not only knowledge, experience and skills that far out weight both yours and mine put together but they still did not survive that one situation that they found themselves in because they thought they could save the plane instead of getting out."

They may have had but in the situation that finally got them, they didn't have the judgement to bail. Different thing.

"They suffered from the same logic as you state over and over. Staying in our homes to be safe has nothing to do with this thread."

Think of it as academic comparisons on a sliding scale of risk v. desired goals.

"Using good common sense is something I know I can not explain to you or any other pilot who thinks they have great skill and knowledge."

I've been in a few situations where my common sense was of a more conservative tack than others and I didn't fly with an aircraft that I maintained was insufficient for the mission at hand. I know how it feels and I'm OK with it and it's something I knew long before recieving a few dozen state and FAA safety certificates. It also seems quite basic to use good common sense in realms where I have very little skill or knowledge which is quite valuable as well.

"You are right that I will not ever understand what you refer to as the right logic of placing the value of the plane over the value of life."

A paraphrase and over simplification of my concept that is shared by many others but more accurately it is the idea of a person trying what they know they can be reasonably expected to succeed in, no matter what it is, and no matter whether money or life or even simply injury is involved.

"Maybe one day you will pick up the pieces up of someone you respect who thought they to we the gift to aviation. I hope not and hope it never happens to you."

I have. They all made various errors in judgement of their personal skills. It made no difference before or since to me.

"And just a side note since you made the statement that you think that the general public and I have the same experience level."

If you're gonna quote me, do it verbatim, or at least accurately.

"In the last 6 years I have logged over a 1000 hours and hold lots of certifications and ratings not that means anything. I would also say that I fly as many if not more different aircraft types than the average CFI. I have been involved in more high speed sports/activities throughout life that require you to put your toes across the edge of a cliff to get the maximum outcome but have never seen the logic of stepping off the cliff to prove how good I am. All I hope from this discussion is that maybe you or anyone else who has read these posts stop's and think's just a second before they make a bad choice that costs life."

That's cool, and I think we all hope for the best judgement and subsiquent outcomes for all us pilots when we're out there doin' our thing in the air, whether routine or rare, and deciding what we safely enough are gonna do next, because it all involves risk of life
BTW: I see no logic in it either and am in absolute total agreement with you about not jumping off a cliff to prove etc.... and I even thought that way since an early age, before I had any experience at all to speak of.

(Somebody please tell me how to do the color highlighted, line by line reply to a post... PLEASE !)

 

[gkainz]

Oh, c'mon you guys - let's all try to get 'a loan'!

(maybe I just can't stand disagreements on 'my' thread!)

Anyway, first one to not post a rebuttal gets reputation points! (what else can I offer?)

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

sorry Greg,
"You must spread some reputation around before giving any more to gkainz"

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Oh, c'mon you guys - let's all try to get 'a loan'!

(maybe I just can't stand disagreements on 'my' thread!)

Anyway, first one to not post a rebuttal gets reputation points! (what else can I offer?)

You got a loan for me ? TKS

 

[gkainz]

sorry Greg,
"You must spread some reputation around before giving any more to gkainz"

I figured that would happen...I'm in the same boat here. We need to expand our on-line community a bit. But, thanks for trying!

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I don't see it being particularly difficult at all, then again, I consider slow flight as something fun to do.

The reason I say that is that there is a fair amount of boneheads out there that will adlib on the spot or pull the hoorah hero pilot routine without thinking too well or get wrapped up in some minor detail and forget about flying the plane properly. People still crash airplanes because a door latch popped loose which in most cases in GA airplanes has zero observable effect on how an airplane flies. Same mindset.

"Dang, I keep outrunning the truck, let me slow down a little more again"...

"Dang, I keep outrunning the truck, let me slow down a little more again"...

If it that were to be done DURING the low pass, then THAT is exactly the type of pilot that shouldn't be trying it -and probably a lot of other things as well.

 

[fgcason]

If it that were to be done DURING the low pass, then THAT is exactly the type of pilot that shouldn't be trying it -and probably a lot of other things as well.

And that's the exact kind of pilot that will not realize he's the type of pilot that shouldn't be doing this and do it anyway.

We haven't even got to the 'round up a couple untrained hero airport bums' ground crew and stranger driving the truck in the blind spot issues side of this yet...

The national headlines played over and over show stopper version will be the guy that tries this in a twin and takes someone's head off or does a Vmc rollover during the SE go around with the gear hanging in the breeze.

Yea I'm doing the Nostrodamus end of the world routine here but sheesh, it's not your 5 year old kid. It's just a bunch of cleverly formed repairable sheet metal and rivets that will slide on concrete fairly well and let you walk away.


Everyone out there can do what they want but unless I'm facing immenent mangling and death meyhem, I'm sucking them all back up and sliding that puppy on. Then I'll get the riveting tools out and go to bed that night with a clear concience that I didn't risk killing anyone over a several hundred $$ of rivets, sheet metal and paint.

Just IMHO anyway...YMMV but that's not going to be my problem...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I don't really think so. By the time most pilots are flying complex aircraft, they are reasonably competent airmen, as are the ground crews who pull these manuvers.

Try this for an edit... "By the time most pilots are flying complex aircraft, they should be reasonably competent airmen..."

Unfortunately, that is often not the case. Henning, you are probably the cream of the crop when it comes to pilots - I've worked at airports, hung around enough airports, and flown with enough idiots to know that your statement above is far from true, as much as we'd like it to be true.

Let's see, where to start - The guy skirting just around the edge of the MSN class C so he doesn't have to talk to anyone damn near hitting me (I'd estimate ~50 feet away). Had I not been talking to ATC, he'd have probably taken my tail off.

The guy who was old and probably suffering from some medical condition that would frequently fall asleep in the left seat of his airplane. Luckily, it never happened with the engine turning. It DID happen on the taxiway before he got to his hangar at least once, though.

The guy who hadn't touched an airplane in months (I had to fill the tires on his plane AND on the car parked in front of his plane in the hangar) launching on a trip with his family without even a trip or two around the pattern first... And this was NOT a highly experienced pilot. His takeoff was pretty scary-looking.

All of the above were Bonanzas. No wonder they got the bad rep...

Then there's the guy who I ran into a couple of weeks ago. I noticed him on final. Made the radio calls, tried to get his attention, and he didn't turn the radio on until we were nose to nose on the taxiway and demanded I get out of his way. He was in a twin, already had an engine shut down. He should have seen me LONG before we were nose to nose.

How things should be and how things are can be two VERY different concepts.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Actually, I'd venture to say you witnessed death & destruction mostly by pilots who THOUGHT they had the skill. And even though they had the nerve to TRY, didn't have the JUDGEMENT to know where to draw the line for themselves. The attitude without the apptitude is well, we all know what that is.

Dave,

Sorry, but I've gotta call BS. There is not a pilot in this world that is as good as they think they are, yourself included.

Even if you're highly experienced, highly trained, etc. and even if your ground crew is highly experienced (How many times do you think this particular ground crew had pulled this stunt?) and highly trained (anyone know of a single person who actually trains for this scenario?), this is STUPID STUPID STUPID. Even if you're good enough to be in the Thunderbirds. (And I can guarantee you if one of them was in this situation, they wouldn't do it either!)

What if there's a sudden wind gust? What if that Jeep blows a steer tire? There's plenty of things that can go wrong that have nothing to do with pilot skill.

The bottom line is... Well, let's look at the risks vs. the rewards. Obviously the risks are high. What are the rewards? You saved your greedy insurance company some money, and you can look cool at the bar tonight. That's IT. So, even if you can do it, why?

If you're in this situation, this is what you do:

0. Make the smart decision. You no longer own the airplane, it belongs to the insurance company. Save your butt.
1. Go to a decent-size, towered airport, preferably with multiple runways. On-site crash, fire and rescue is a must.
2. Tell 'em to foam the runway.
3. Put the other legs up (assuming only one is stuck).
4. Belly-land, and get the heck out of the airplane. Don't forget to pop the door before touchdown just in case. And do NOT try to save the engine by shutting it down! Remember, you no longer own this airplane.
5. Call your insurance agent and congratulate them on their purchase of an airplane.

There's a saying in my industry that's very applicable here... When you think you can do it all and/or you know it all, you'd better quit because you're about to have a very bad accident.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Dave,

Sorry, but I've gotta call BS. There is not a pilot in this world that is as good as they think they are, yourself included.

Even if you're highly experienced, highly trained, etc. and even if your ground crew is highly experienced (How many times do you think this particular ground crew had pulled this stunt?) and highly trained (anyone know of a single person who actually trains for this scenario?), this is STUPID STUPID STUPID. Even if you're good enough to be in the Thunderbirds. (And I can guarantee you if one of them was in this situation, they wouldn't do it either!)

What if there's a sudden wind gust? What if that Jeep blows a steer tire? There's plenty of things that can go wrong that have nothing to do with pilot skill.

The bottom line is... Well, let's look at the risks vs. the rewards. Obviously the risks are high. What are the rewards? You saved your greedy insurance company some money, and you can look cool at the bar tonight. That's IT. So, even if you can do it, why?

If you're in this situation, this is what you do:

0. Make the smart decision. You no longer own the airplane, it belongs to the insurance company. Save your butt.
1. Go to a decent-size, towered airport, preferably with multiple runways. On-site crash, fire and rescue is a must.
2. Tell 'em to foam the runway.
3. Put the other legs up (assuming only one is stuck).
4. Belly-land, and get the heck out of the airplane. Don't forget to pop the door before touchdown just in case. And do NOT try to save the engine by shutting it down! Remember, you no longer own this airplane.
5. Call your insurance agent and congratulate them on their purchase of an airplane.

There's a saying in my industry that's very applicable here... When you think you can do it all and/or you know it all, you'd better quit because you're about to have a very bad accident.

I've formally assessed quite a few pilots in writing and on the record with my rep and liability on the line for their flight performance over the years at various levels and have been consistently pretty close so far... so I figure if I do the same standards assessment on myself, the numbers on the dials won't be lying but I'll even buffer it by 50% to allow for ego and self prejudice in my case. But a pilot DOES NOT need to be super skillful in this case.

The thing most of the pilots taking the con side in this case fail to acknowledge is how simple the pilot's job is in these cases. It's like I believe Henning essentially said... "Do you find it difficult to fly straight and level in the air?" Well, can you fly straight and level or not ? (and at constant airspeed) ? Go out with your CFI and practice flying straight and level down a LONG RWY at 2 & 5 & 10 feet and it will improve many of your other flying maneuvers as well.

They obviously don't attempt it in gusty winds and if a jeep tire blows although highly unlikely, well that's the way it goes sometimes, hopefully the jeep won't roll over on fire into the school playground nearby that's full of orphans and kill them all, or worse. And I recall no twin engine aircraft scenarios of this type because that would be well, too risky.

I'd like to respond in detail to all of your other statements now but you are so broad in your vast generalizations and wide in your choice of examples that are so far removed from the specifics of this particular scenario and concept that time constraints preclude me from responding to each one at this time.

 

[Aztec Driver]

The problem with this scenarion is not the skill (or lack thereof) of the pilots or the ground crew. It is the risk/reward ratio. Sure, with reasonable pilot skills and reasonable driving skills, it can be accomplished. So can bellying the plane in. Both CAN be done without major catastrophe. If the pilot screws the pooch when bellying it in, he risks his and his passengers lives. If either he or the driver screws the pooch, now we add not only the pilot and his passengers, but also the ground crew. We not only add more possible casualties, but a doubling of the possibilities to screw up. We also add in another vehicle to give some kind of problem. A prop strike will likely send the airplane into a loss of control, almost guaranteeing an unhappy outcaome. The only reward from all of this is a possibility of saving some repair to the airplane. Why is this worth so much possible risk? Just so we can fly the plane sooner? It has to go to the shop for the gear anyway, let them also fix the damage.


My own two cents, but then again, I crashed my airplane, so I guess I really shouldn't offer my opinion.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

The problem with this scenarion is not the skill (or lack thereof) of the pilots or the ground crew. It is the risk/reward ratio. Sure, with reasonable pilot skills and reasonable driving skills, it can be accomplished. So can bellying the plane in. Both CAN be done without major catastrophe. If the pilot screws the pooch when bellying it in, he risks his and his passengers lives. If either he or the driver screws the pooch, now we add not only the pilot and his passengers, but also the ground crew. We not only add more possible casualties, but a doubling of the possibilities to screw up. We also add in another vehicle to give some kind of problem. A prop strike will likely send the airplane into a loss of control, almost guaranteeing an unhappy outcaome. The only reward from all of this is a possibility of saving some repair to the airplane. Why is this worth so much possible risk? Just so we can fly the plane sooner? It has to go to the shop for the gear anyway, let them also fix the damage.


My own two cents, but then again, I crashed my airplane, so I guess I really shouldn't offer my opinion.

There's no question that bellying in is usually the safest thing and the risk to reward benefit could be higher too but, people voluntarily risk as much or more everyday for no monetary rewards whatsoever, only to have fun. It is acceptable to do so.

BTW: If you had tried to glide down onto a moving car in the street, in your recently disabled twin and then coasted out on top of the car to a stop to minimize damage to your aircraft -well that would have been a too dangerous choice.

I'm also in the camp, regarding the recent Jet Blue twisted nose gear failure while in flight, that consders it too dangerous to be corrected in flight using a convertible Corvette and a very long stick.

 

[tom.]

Why does this stuff always mysteriously get videotaped and end up on TV? Someone's going to get killed trying this one day, all for 15 minutes of TV fame. I will never put others at risk if my landing gear gets stuck. If I see a truck on the runway I'm going to find another airport.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Why does this stuff always mysteriously get videotaped and end up on TV? Someone's going to get killed trying this one day, all for 15 minutes of TV fame. I will never put others at risk if my landing gear gets stuck. If I see a truck on the runway I'm going to find another airport.

It gets videotaped because it's a rare scenario and somewhat exciting. Has anyone been killed yet ? Just curious, it has no real bearing on the discussion. Just since this thread started, more than one person has died or worse, in aircraft mishaps that were the termination of normal, everyday flights not even involving any extracurricular emergency procedures.