Another Cirrus chute pull (near Lowville, NY)

Just wondering, do pilots who fly airplanes equipped with a parachute take safety chances that they might not take if they didn't have a chute? Also, do insurance companies have a clause that addresses pulling the chute?
 
do pilots who fly airplanes equipped with a parachute take safety chances that they might not take if they didn't have a chute
No, at least I don't. What it does though, is eliminate some of that background stress that's always at the back of your head, especially if you are flying with friends, family, etc. Heaven forbid, if I become incapacitated for some freak reason it's great to know that my wife can kill the mixture and pull the chute. I almost feel like having that "out" eliminates some of the tunnel vision you may otherwise get in a stressful situation

I can't speak for all people though

I think personally FIKI and the G1000, etc. are what are more likely to get you into trouble. But that's a discussion for another time
 
Just wondering, do pilots who fly airplanes equipped with a parachute take safety chances that they might not take if they didn't have a chute? Also, do insurance companies have a clause that addresses pulling the chute?

Not a chance in hell I'd go on a risky flight just because I have a chute. That's dangerous and foolish. I have too many cancellations and commercial airline tickets to prove it!

Agree with what @Tantalum said. One awesome benefit of the Cirrus is that my wife and kids know the pre- and post-procedures for the chute in case I'm incapacitated. Also agree on the FIKI... I'm sure more people have put themselves in harm's way because "hell, I have anti-ice!" than "I've got a chute"
 
No, at least I don't. What it does though, is eliminate some of that background stress that's always at the back of your head, especially if you are flying with friends, family, etc. Heaven forbid, if I become incapacitated for some freak reason it's great to know that my wife can kill the mixture and pull the chute. I almost feel like having that "out" eliminates some of the tunnel vision you may otherwise get in a stressful situation

Thank you for sharing this perspective.
 
Yeah! It’s the music he listens too! :rockon:

It's an aviation forum, not a metal head forum, lol. That mooney guy sounds really, really smart. Guess those head knockers have no sense of humor.
 
BTW, I asked the same question over on COPA about gathering up the chute after you land. The general answer is no, stay away from it, a chute with enough size to land a 3600 pound plane will act like a powerful sail if the wind is blowing enough. The answer I heard was best to stay away from it if it's blowing, or have someone drive a car over it to keep it from inflating if it is on the ground. If there is no wind, you can gather it up and secure it, but any wind or if it's not deflated, best to stay away and upwind.
 
Just wondering, do pilots who fly airplanes equipped with a parachute take safety chances that they might not take if they didn't have a chute?

Probably, even if only subconsciously.

Or, consciously. Its not unusual to hear Cirrus pilots say they would not make a flight over certain terrain, or at night, or whatever, in a plane that did not have a parachute.

It has a name: "Risk Homeostasis".
 
I remember @Cajun_Flyer going through some underwater emergency training. Her experience and if I remember right the others on POA who chimed in was pretty interesting.

The one time I flew a Cirrus, I think I remember a Cirrus hammer in the cabin to break glass. Maybe a belt cutter too, or am I making that one up?
 
It's an aviation forum, not a metal head forum, lol. That mooney guy sounds really, really smart. Guess those head knockers have no sense of humor.

Oh, I've got an awesome, irreverent sense of humor.
I remember @Cajun_Flyer going through some underwater emergency training. Her experience and if I remember right the others on POA who chimed in was pretty interesting.

The one time I flew a Cirrus, I think I remember a Cirrus hammer in the cabin to break glass. Maybe a belt cutter too, or am I making that one up?

There is a hammer. No belt cutter, but I have one anyway.
 
It's an aviation forum, not a metal head forum, lol. That mooney guy sounds really, really smart. Guess those head knockers have no sense of humor.

I have a great sense of humor. It's just that it wasn't funny.

Annnnyyywaaayyy moving on
 
Landing in 50 foot forest with a chute could be a real bad day. The chute might not help much for that last 50 feet. Power lines are even worse.

I’m just not sure I’d trust the chute in any case I could pilot to the ground in a field. Still plenty of scenarios where the chute is useful even so.
 
Good! I'm glad. Thanks for admitting that. Hey, not all jokes come out as winners!
Lol, nice try, I already commented on the joke, I was talking about you moving on, which you obviously have. ;)
 
Ah.... You could have let it go when I said moving on, but apparently you're one of those guys that has to have the last word. Well, here's your chance because I'm done. Go ahead and make it a good one! Pick me a winner, Bobby!

Bat_Boy_Girl_Search_640x360_he5apaj2_aazdurc8.jpg
 
Now back to your previously scheduled chute thread.

What if you are flying over pretty rough terrain when your engine dies but there is one small meadow within easy gliding distance and just big enough for a safe landing. Pop it or pilot?
 
Just wondering, do pilots who fly airplanes equipped with a parachute take safety chances that they might not take if they didn't have a chute? Also, do insurance companies have a clause that addresses pulling the chute?

I can't answer about insurance. Cirrus accident rates are now in-line with the rest of the fleet, now that both the company and the insurance industry have changed their policies to provide better, more standardized training to the class of pilots who were having issues. The parachute might have been a big factor in why the airplane sold so well to this crowd. But when you consider that the Bonanza had the same problem (forked tail doctor-killer) when it first came out.. its hard to pin any blame on the parachute.
 
Now back to your previously scheduled chute thread.

What if you are flying over pretty rough terrain when your engine dies but there is one small meadow within easy gliding distance and just big enough for a safe landing. Pop it or pilot?
I think you do the pilot stuff.... which means use your judgement to make a sound, informed decision.
 
Now back to your previously scheduled chute thread.

What if you are flying over pretty rough terrain when your engine dies but there is one small meadow within easy gliding distance and just big enough for a safe landing. Pop it or pilot?

I'm popping chutes unless there is an empty highway or a large paved airfield to glide to. I would try to maneuver so that I ended up in a field and not a bunch of tall trees if possible.
 
I think you do the pilot stuff.... which means use your judgement to make a sound, informed decision.

And that really is the answer in my book. Those who say always pop the chute regardless, and those who say real pilots can land anywhere are both being somewhat overly rigid in their thinking. And in my opinion that is dangerous.
 
Now back to your previously scheduled chute thread.

What if you are flying over pretty rough terrain when your engine dies but there is one small meadow within easy gliding distance and just big enough for a safe landing. Pop it or pilot?

For me, it's so hard to say. I guess a little of both. Even though I pretty regularly practice engine-outs and am often thinking of "what would I do right now if I lost my engine" in flight...I'm not sure what my mental state would be in that situation; I've never lost an engine before. Lots of variables (are my kids on board, etc.) could change how'd I'd deal with it and how I'd be able to process it. So I'd stick with training and what I've chiseled into my brain.

For me, the sequence would go like this:

1) Immediately pitch for best glide
2) Look for nearest airport
3) If none, look for a good spot to put it down under the chute (close to a road, not in water, etc.).
4) Communicate to ATC, grab knife and PLB, etc. and follow my decision

So in that situation, if the meadow is calling me, I'm going to circle above it and pull the chute at no less than 1200 AGL.
 
Chances are, without some water evacuation training, you would not be able too.

Most folks don’t have the endurance that they need to escape an airplane that is submerged. Add a parachute canopy on top of it and the window gets even narrower.

I watched an interesting video on the Tube about the untrained escaping a water landing, and the results were quite astounding. I’ll have to try and find it again.

It doesn't just immediately submerge.

This is a US Coast Guard video, rather infamous water splashdown off Hawaii:

 
No, at least I don't. What it does though, is eliminate some of that background stress that's always at the back of your head, especially if you are flying with friends, family, etc. Heaven forbid, if I become incapacitated for some freak reason it's great to know that my wife can kill the mixture and pull the chute. I almost feel like having that "out" eliminates some of the tunnel vision you may otherwise get in a stressful situation

I can't speak for all people though

I think personally FIKI and the G1000, etc. are what are more likely to get you into trouble. But that's a discussion for another time

FIKI and G1000 (and airframe parachutes) don't get you into trouble. It's the PIC that gets you into trouble.

Look at all the stupid things that pilots exercising lousy judgement do that cause completely preventable accidents, often fatal. How many stupid things are done every day that don't result in an incident we hear about? Most of those small planes have no parachute, no FIKI and no G1000.
 
Just wondering, do pilots who fly airplanes equipped with a parachute take safety chances that they might not take if they didn't have a chute?

Some call that "Risk Homeostasis."

And it's debated -- does additional equipment (chute or anti-icing) induce a pilot to take a flight he would otherwise refuse? In this debate, one view is that pilots are cautious and only want to reduce their risk; they won't take additional risks just because they've eliminated one. I hold the opposite view.

To many pilots, the chute or the anti-icing is an "out". If the pilot always plans a flight that offers at least one "out" in every situation, then being equipped with an additional "out" will naturally lead to the pilot taking flights he would have otherwise refused. For example, when you think about engine failure, a cross-country flight at night is more palatable if you have a chute. So, when you transition to flying a plane with a chute, you might tend to take cross-country flights at night more often than you once did, even though an off-field landing after engine failure is not the only extra risk posed by nighttime.
 
Some call that "Risk Homeostasis."

And it's debated -- does additional equipment (chute or anti-icing) induce a pilot to take a flight he would otherwise refuse? In this debate, one view is that pilots are cautious and only want to reduce their risk; they won't take additional risks just because they've eliminated one. I hold the opposite view.

To many pilots, the chute or the anti-icing is an "out". If the pilot always plans a flight that offers at least one "out" in every situation, then being equipped with an additional "out" will naturally lead to the pilot taking flights he would have otherwise refused. For example, when you think about engine failure, a cross-country flight at night is more palatable if you have a chute. So, when you transition to flying a plane with a chute, you might tend to take cross-country flights at night more often than you once did, even though an off-field landing after engine failure is not the only extra risk posed by nighttime.

It is unrealistic to expect the owner/pilot of a well equipped Cirrus (or a twin like mine) to limit themselves to the same flight conditions that are the acceptable limits in a Cessna 172. Are they actually increasing their risk exposure by not limiting themselves in this manner? I think that is debatable.

Whether it's seat belts, airbags or anti-lock brakes in cars, or FIKI, CAPS and syn-viz in a light airplane, the purpose of all of these is to increase safety by mitigating the consequences of taking risk. So is carrying survival gear in winter, using flight following, ADS-B In information, and a host of other things available to us.

The risk we are taking is getting in the vehicle and putting it in motion. Flying of any type, even as a passenger in an Airbus, involves some level of risky behavior. The flight conditions, the capability of the pilot and the capability of the plane all factor in to the actual or perceived risk of a given situation.
 
FIKI and G1000 (and airframe parachutes) don't get you into trouble. It's the PIC that gets you into trouble
True, and that's why the accident reports always say "pilots failure to..."

But, like @NoHeat said, I'm sure there are people out there that take the extra gadgetry and put themselves in situations they shouldn't, because they have these extra "outs." I don't put myself in that category, but since the car analogy came up, there are a lot of people who also drive a little more aggressively than they otherwise should in the winter, just because their Volvo has four wheel drive, etc

Anyway, safe flying out there!
 
Relayed from COPA:

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/searc...:00-04:00&max-results=1&start=1&by-date=false

Mr. Makinen had to divert his route to avoid restricted airspace around the Rome area, taking off the autopilot setting. At an altitude of around 9,000 feet, he encountered heavy clouds associated with a lake effect snow band over Lewis County. Mr. Makinen apparently became disoriented coming in and out of the clouds and noticed a change in pitch in the engine sound.

At that point he decided to make an emergency landing and deployed the aircraft's Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS). With no control over the location of the landing, the plane luckily ended up making an upright landing into a field off the Willow Grove Road.
 
Relayed from COPA:

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/searc...:00-04:00&max-results=1&start=1&by-date=false

Mr. Makinen had to divert his route to avoid restricted airspace around the Rome area, taking off the autopilot setting. At an altitude of around 9,000 feet, he encountered heavy clouds associated with a lake effect snow band over Lewis County. Mr. Makinen apparently became disoriented coming in and out of the clouds and noticed a change in pitch in the engine sound.

At that point he decided to make an emergency landing and deployed the aircraft's Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS). With no control over the location of the landing, the plane luckily ended up making an upright landing into a field off the Willow Grove Road.

So, a happy ending. Who doesn't like a happy ending. @eman1200 what was that address again of that spa? o_O
 
The other thing is we have no data on how Many would have survived if they didn’t pull the shoot

I also think you’d have a hard time explaining to an insurance company why you didn’t do what the book says and pull the chute.

Not sure why you would have to, nor why your answer would matter.

They could refuse coverage all together in that instance

No. No they can't.
 
Just wondering, do pilots who fly airplanes equipped with a parachute take safety chances that they might not take if they didn't have a chute? Also, do insurance companies have a clause that addresses pulling the chute?

This isn't a very useful answer, but the answer is that some do. We just don't know how many, and how much additional risk they assume.
 
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