Animals on Airlines - About time!

Everskyward said:
For me, it's not about the animals themselves. I love animals. I wouldn't mind sitting in a planeful of them, but I am not fond of people faking medical or psychological conditions in order to get favorable treatment. It not only penalizes people who are honest, it penalizes people who have legitimate problems.
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No

It's not about better treatment, it's about not getting ripped off.....more

The airlines are already giving it to us without lube, I really just think people don't care about BSing them to avoid yet another stupid charge and I'm cool with that.

They cram and cram more seats in, and the expense of any comfort, charge for every little thing, hire the cheapest crews they can and whine when congress says they need ATPs, and I'm sposed to feel bad when I BS them to bring my pup on, who fits in the tiny seating space I paid for and acts better than the next persons screaming/chitting child? I think not.
 
Lachlan said:
Once spankings became forbidden, and punching someone in the mouth became equally egregious, people started getting bold, rebellious and raucous. Get off my lawn.
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YOUR lawn?! Brother, the land is for all of us. You need to learn to share. Damn elitists!
 
Ravioli said:
As entertaining as it may be, I'm unlikely to agree to your rules of conduct.
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As I don't agree with the airlines rules pertaining to the very small space I paid for.

So we're both down for breaking BS rules...
 
SkyDog58 said:
Basically militant fascists who are against other fascists they disagree with.
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Yikes, sounds like the old "eye for an eye, fight fire with fire" mentality. I just think actions should have measurable consequences. Kids should understand that they can't act badly without having to "pay the piper" shortly thereafter. Same goes for big kids. Lack of discipline = modern social transgressions.
 
James331 said:
As I don't agree with the airlines rules pertaining to the very small space I paid for.

So we're both down for breaking BS rules...
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You actually did agree to their rules when you bought your ticket.
 
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Lindberg said:
You actually did agree to their rules when you bought your ticket.
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Along with the other ten pages of fine print on that webpage lol

Yeah and I have super fine print on my debit card that says when you swipe it I get possession of your eternal soul.
 
Ravioli said:
The point, which clearly escapes you, is that you may ask those two questions but you may not challenge the validity of the answers.
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That right there is causing most of the problem. The ADA doesn't permit a business to request or require anything that actually demonstrates the legitimacy of the service dog (and generally only dogs are protected under the ADA), including asking for documentation or demonstration of the claimed training. I suspect that it is virtually impossible to deny access to any dog claimed to be a service dog regardless of observed behavior, with the possible exception of extreme or threatening behavior. It is also generally true that "emotional support" is not protected under the ADA, but if someone's going to be dishonest about the training then there's no reason why they wouldn't be dishonest about the disease (any detail of which, of course, the business is not permitted to request).

As someone else mentioned, the Air Carrier Access Act permits different procedures for air carriers, and provides them with additional flexibility.

I don't have dogs (or other pets), but I do have kids. Generally speaking, I don't like other people's kids and I don't like other people's pets for the same reason: they don't share the same standards of behavior that I require for my kids. I have seen some pets who are exceptionally well trained and behaved, but in my experience those examples are also exceptionally rare. I'm sure that most people think they have "great dogs," but if they bark, chase, sniff, jump, lick, or tear up the asphalt around strangers, they do not meet my definition of well-behaved.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
I don't have dogs (or other pets), but I do have kids. Generally speaking, I don't like other people's kids and I don't like other people's pets for the same reason: they don't share the same standards of behavior that I require for my kids. I have seen some pets who are exceptionally well trained and behaved, but in my experience those examples are also exceptionally rare.
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Right back at you, bro.

You are probably just as likely to over rate the behavioral characters of your exceptional offspring as you are to under rate the behavior of just about every existing pet. (those that you don't find exceptionally rare that is)
 
Ravioli said:
Right back at you, bro.

You are probably just as likely to over rate the behavioral characters of your exceptional offspring as you are to under rate the behavior of just about every existing pet. (those that you don't find exceptionally rare that is)
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I never claimed that my kids were exceptional, but they demonstrate mature behavior in public for good reason: that's how they were taught. Well-behaved dogs are no different. In my experience, there are probably far more well-behaved kids than there are well-behaved pets. The meaning of "well-behaved" is really pretty simple: If you, your kid, or your pet is doing something that is or could be a bother or disruption to someone else, even if you think it's "cute," then they are not demonstrating good behavior. It used to be called, "consideration for others." Many people just don't pay enough attention to the details, or they just don't care.


JKG
 
You continue to miss the point that YOUR appraisal of the behaviors of other people, their children, and their pets is completely subjective.

You taught your kids to behave as you want them to. Your standards may or not equal the standards of others.

Getting it yet?

Here is a pair of beloved children that will never be corrected.
 
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Ravioli said:
You continue to miss the point that YOUR appraisal of the behaviors of other people, their children, and their pets is completely subjective.

You taught your kids to behave as you want them to. Your standards may or not equal the standards of others.

Getting it yet?
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We post our opinions, as we see fit. Our opinion may or may not equal the opinion of others.
Same philosophy technically.

And now we sing:
(altogether now)

This lawn is your lawn
This lawn is my lawn
From Californiaaaaa
To the New York Islands...
(mscard88 yells: but not in the South East dammit!!)
From the Redwood Forest, to the gulf stream waters
This lawn was made for you and me
(skyrys62 yells: and apparently all my neighbors dogs!!)

Good job everyone.
(clapping)

(DenverPilot yells: Free bird!!)
 
Ravioli said:
You continue to miss the point that YOUR appraisal of the behaviors of other people, their children, and their pets is completely subjective.

You taught your kids to behave as you want them to. Your standards may or not equal the standards of others.

Getting it yet?

Here is a pair of beloved children that will never be corrected.
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I was going to say that you didn’t see the movie, but it looks like you didn’t even make it to the end of the video!
 
JGoodish said:
That right there is causing most of the problem. The ADA doesn't permit a business to request or require anything that actually demonstrates the legitimacy of the service dog (and generally only dogs are protected under the ADA), including asking for documentation or demonstration of the claimed training. I suspect that it is virtually impossible to deny access to any dog claimed to be a service dog regardless of observed behavior, with the possible exception of extreme or threatening behavior. It is also generally true that "emotional support" is not protected under the ADA, but if someone's going to be dishonest about the training then there's no reason why they wouldn't be dishonest about the disease (any detail of which, of course, the business is not permitted to request).

As someone else mentioned, the Air Carrier Access Act permits different procedures for air carriers, and provides them with additional flexibility.

I don't have dogs (or other pets), but I do have kids. Generally speaking, I don't like other people's kids and I don't like other people's pets for the same reason: they don't share the same standards of behavior that I require for my kids. I have seen some pets who are exceptionally well trained and behaved, but in my experience those examples are also exceptionally rare. I'm sure that most people think they have "great dogs," but if they bark, chase, sniff, jump, lick, or tear up the asphalt around strangers, they do not meet my definition of well-behaved.


JKG
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Just as you're sure you have "great kids". Same chit, different species.



And like I said, the airlines is 1000% OK with the lady bringing her yapping lap dog on the plane, they just want another hundred bucks for her to do it.
 
Ravioli said:
You continue to miss the point that YOUR appraisal of the behaviors of other people, their children, and their pets is completely subjective.

You taught your kids to behave as you want them to. Your standards may or not equal the standards of others.

Getting it yet?
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Nope, nothing subjective about it. If my kids (or your pets) don't disturb other people--in the sense that no one really knows they're there--then they're well-behaved. Pretty hard to say that a kid (or pet) who doesn't cause a ruckus, bump into people, make obnoxious noises, or otherwise act without any consideration for anyone around them is doing anything other than demonstrating good behavior.

On the other hand, a kid who runs up and down the halls at a hotel, screams his head off at a restaurant, or a dog who barks at or chases strangers cannot by any reasonable definition be called well-behaved.

You may think that your pet jumping up and licking a stranger is cute--and they may agree--but you can't argue that it isn't an intrusion.


JKG
 
James331 said:
Just as you're sure you have "great kids". Same chit, different species.
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I never made any such comment about my kids. However, with respect to the behavior of kids, pets, or adults, it really comes down to the consideration of others. It has nothing to do with opinion.


JKG
 
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JGoodish said:
I never made any such comment about my kids. However, with respect to the behavior of kids, pets, or adults, it really comes down to the consideration of others. It has nothing to do with opinion.


JKG
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It's all just opinion, what you view as good behavior is different than me, is different from seat 32D
 
James331 said:
It's all just opinion, what you view as good behavior is different than me, is different from seat 32D
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If you never bother the person in seat 32D (or anyone else around you), no one would ever claim your behavior as an issue.

Again, it boils down to whether you prioritize concern about how your behavior (or that of your kid/pet) may impact others around you when you are in public. Some people are concerned with that, and others not so much. People (and their pets) in the latter group are far more likely to be viewed unfavorably by everyone else.


JKG
 
Ravioli said:
You continue to miss the point that YOUR appraisal of the behaviors of other people, their children, and their pets is completely subjective.

You taught your kids to behave as you want them to. Your standards may or not equal the standards of others.

Getting it yet?

Here is a pair of beloved children that will never be corrected.
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Didn't the kids end up being schooled by their grandmother and turn into little Stepford children?
 
The one thing I have not read in this thread is karma. Personally I would never abuse handicapped parking or service dog privileges lest the Universe say:"you like pretending to be handicapped? Let's make it real!"
 
hankrausch said:
Didn't the kids end up being schooled by their grandmother and turn into little Stepford children?
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Isn't just you...

That movie with the overly horrid child behavior also mocked the overly correct child behavior. No behaviors in Talladega Nights are to be modeled. With the possible exception of kissing Jean Girard

Sheesh...
 
Ravioli said:
Isn't just you...

That movie with the overly horrid child behavior also mocked the overly correct child behavior. No behaviors in Talladega Nights are to be modeled. With the possible exception of kissing Jean Girard

Sheesh...
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OK OK... Nicely done...!
 
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