Angel Flight folks.

Aztec Driver

Aztec Driver

Line Up and Wait
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Mar 7, 2005
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Elizabethtown, PA
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Bryon
I am planning my first Angel Flight trip this Sunday. Should be reasonable weather, if not a little cold and snowy. Ice shouldn't be much of an issue at these temps, anyway. ROC to PNE. For those of you that have done this, how many of you have low wing aircraft that require passengers to climb over the wing and into the cockpit? It is not a terribly easy thing for younger people, but how do you think slightly older (maybe middle age :D) might fair? Are these people usually able to climb over the wing to get in? I'll take a stool along to get onto the wing, but getting out is sometimes more difficult. A Twin Comanche is not the easiest aircraft in the world to get into and out of.
 
I was going to give you my experience with older folks and my low wing.....but it looks like you prefer only answers from AF folks, so I will pipe down.
 
A few years ago I gave a woman I know her first ever flight in a small plane. Now, she has MS and can't use her legs much at all. Her husband and I had a bit of a job getting her up on the wing of the Piper Tomahawk and down into the cockpit, but we were successful.
...and she LOVED the ride!!!!
Now we had to get her OUT again. Holy Moly! What a project! The two of us had all we could do to pull her out onto the wing and get her back on the ground and into her wheelchair!
I sure hope that when she looks back on that ride she remembers how much she enjoyed flying, and not how she had to be dragged out of the cockpit like a sack of potatoes!!!
 
Bryon, First thank you for flying an Angel Flight. I have flown a few in low wings even with one Teenage boy who had leg and hip problems and he had no issue climbing in. I assume that you are flying for Angel Flight East. I hope you are. Anyway if you are flying for AFE give Jen a call 800-383-9464 and ask her if the patient has any limitations that would prevent over wing access to the plane. Jen will speak with the patient and others and will give you that info.
 
Byron,

First of all, let me thank you for providing such a service to people in need.

Second, it will vary with the person. I have a messed up leg which makes it challenging on low wings. The trick is that it's not impossible. Talk to the flight coordinator (as mentioned) but also to the passengers on the day of the flight.

People are pretty resilient and resourceful, and with a bit of help, I'll wager all will be fine.
 
Byron,
First, thanks for doing these flights! They're as rewarding to the pilot as to the passengers! Second, I fly high-wings, so I can't speak directly to the low-wing aspect. But the patient usually has at least one attendant with them who can help with ingress and egress issues.

Keep in mind, however, how you'll handle an emergency egress and brief that with the passengers. At that point, of course, you're not worried about dignity and empowerment, but about getting them and everyone else out of the plane as quickly as possible. But you don't want to be in a situation where everyone is blocked in the plane by a person in the copilot seat who cannot open the door and clear the exit.
 
Aztec Driver said:
I am planning my first Angel Flight trip this Sunday. Should be reasonable weather, if not a little cold and snowy. Ice shouldn't be much of an issue at these temps, anyway. ROC to PNE. For those of you that have done this, how many of you have low wing aircraft that require passengers to climb over the wing and into the cockpit? It is not a terribly easy thing for younger people, but how do you think slightly older (maybe middle age :D) might fair? Are these people usually able to climb over the wing to get in? I'll take a stool along to get onto the wing, but getting out is sometimes more difficult. A Twin Comanche is not the easiest aircraft in the world to get into and out of.
Click to expand...

I only do the earth angel part, but all the folks I've picked up appeared to be capable of dealing with low wing aircraft. Some of the aircraft used were warriors or arrows.
 
It's a problem.

Sometimes I am Soooo very thankful for the back door on the PA34. You just sit with your derriere on the #5 seat, and swing the legs into the footwells. A wheelchair on a ramp (need about 9" of boost) leads to a simple lateral transfer from the chair to seat #5......Some of these folks are enormous and require baggage in the nosebay.

These are rewarding trips, Bryon. :)
 
My grandmother is 92 and needs a bit of assistance, but that's just to ensure that she doesn't fall and break something.
 
Aztec Driver said:
I am planning my first Angel Flight trip this Sunday. Should be reasonable weather, if not a little cold and snowy. Ice shouldn't be much of an issue at these temps, anyway. ROC to PNE. For those of you that have done this, how many of you have low wing aircraft that require passengers to climb over the wing and into the cockpit? It is not a terribly easy thing for younger people, but how do you think slightly older (maybe middle age :D) might fair? Are these people usually able to climb over the wing to get in? I'll take a stool along to get onto the wing, but getting out is sometimes more difficult. A Twin Comanche is not the easiest aircraft in the world to get into and out of.
Click to expand...

Are you concerned about getting them up on the wing or just into the cabin? The PA30 sits pretty low, so climbing up on the wing with a small stepstool shouldn't be too much trouble. Not like trying to get someone up into a Travel Air.

As far as getting into the cabin, are you planning on having the pax sit up front with you, or in the back? If you want to put them in the back, you might consider removing the right front seat to give them plenty of space. Haven't tried that in a Twinkie, but seen it in an Apache and it seemed to work well.

Definitely talk to the pax yourself and ask them what they are comfortable with and what their limitations are. Also, make sure to ask if they need to bring a walker or wheelchair with them. We have had a few AF flights where pilots were trying to figure out how to fit a wheelchair in the back of a 182.

For Angel Flight missions, I'm with Bruce - I love the back doors of the 6 seat Pipers. If I am taking someone with limited mobility, the flying club Cherokee 6 is the default plane of choice.
 
No testiness intended!
Several times a year I have the pleasure of transporting my elderly (but mentally sharp) in-laws and their beloved (and beautiful) cat the 275nm from their place to mine & back in my low wing, 4-seat Viking. They are 75 and 83 years young. and both have some mobility problems.
I also assist an elderly lady up and down an airstair a couple times a month on other airplanes.
I find that if I just give them plenty of time, they can take care of entry/egress by themselves. I do not hurry them, even that type of hurrying that is unintended (trying to help too much or other body language that says its time to go). Certainly I will move baggage out of the way, hold the door, generally be available, have a hand ready for support, and ask them if there is something I can help them with. I also try to stategically locate myself in such situations so that I could if the need arose, catch a person on that last big step. I think a short chat would be called for, before I physically moved a person from here to there - thankfully I have not had to do that...and I would worry about what or where to gain purchase, in order to not injure delicate bones or cause mental anguish. Another thing I have noticed is that pax tend to cling to their purse/camera/hat, etc......when they really need both hands to get themselves in - so I try to relieve them of such items. I have often thought about getting a reinforced milk crate for them to make the first step easier....but I have to get in before the last pax and handling it would be difficult. I have played with the idea of getting a 210 for their comfort.
The movement of pax may carry the possibility of them feeling like they are in an undignified state at times, for example because of the requirement to crawl in or out of the door of my plane, but all have handled it with aplomb.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Are you concerned about getting them up on the wing or just into the cabin? The PA30 sits pretty low, so climbing up on the wing with a small stepstool shouldn't be too much trouble. Not like trying to get someone up into a Travel Air.

As far as getting into the cabin, are you planning on having the pax sit up front with you, or in the back? If you want to put them in the back, you might consider removing the right front seat to give them plenty of space. Haven't tried that in a Twinkie, but seen it in an Apache and it seemed to work well.

Definitely talk to the pax yourself and ask them what they are comfortable with and what their limitations are. Also, make sure to ask if they need to bring a walker or wheelchair with them. We have had a few AF flights where pilots were trying to figure out how to fit a wheelchair in the back of a 182.

For Angel Flight missions, I'm with Bruce - I love the back doors of the 6 seat Pipers. If I am taking someone with limited mobility, the flying club Cherokee 6 is the default plane of choice.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is the egress that concerns me more. I can help them onto the wing, and I can help them step in, but getting out sometimes requires the person to crawl out. At any rate, I talked to the person and she is a real trooper. She said if she can't walk, she'll crawl out.

This is the same issue I had with doing charters in the Aztec, but most of those people were a little younger and more agile. I still hated not having an airstair. (But I have one on the Aerostar, now.)
 
Aztec Driver said:
Actually, it is the egress that concerns me more. I can help them onto the wing, and I can help them step in, but getting out sometimes requires the person to crawl out.
Click to expand...

Got ya....I've never messed with the seats in the twinkie myself, but it might be worth exploring the seat removal option if it isn't too much trouble. That would allow you to get out first and assist them.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Got ya....I've never messed with the seats in the twinkie myself, but it might be worth exploring the seat removal option if it isn't too much trouble. That would allow you to get out first and assist them.
Click to expand...

That'd make it easier, alright, but I think my wife might not appreciate sitting on the floor.:D
 
Well, chech your weather and help me out folks. What would be your choice in this situation? S37-ROC-PNE. Launch at around 1200. Cruise at 6000 and 7000. No deice equipment.

Launch or no?

Seems too cold for any ice accumulation , but if I get it on the descent, I can't really depart agin.
 
Looks fine down here in Philly but have no idea whats going enroute

Rochester shows

METAR
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]231354Z 01010KT 1SM R04/P6000FT -SN FEW013 BKN028 BKN034 M13/M16 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP201 P0000 T11281156 $ [/FONT]TAF[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]KROC [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]231120Z 2312/2412 02010KT 3SM -SN BKN025 TEMPO 2312/2315 1SM -SN BKN012 FM231500 34012G20KT 5SM -SHSN BKN025 TEMPO 2315/2318 2SM -SN BKN015 FM232000 31012KT 6SM -SHSN BKN035 FM240000 30005KT P6SM BKN035 FM240400 VRB03KT P6SM SCT030 [/FONT]


Temp Dew pt is only 3degrees but its pretty darn cold some snow later. I dunno is it dry enough for you?
 
Just got back. Negative icing. Mild turbulence down low. It was a great time. Passengers were really grateful. A little on the extreme cold side, though. Thankfully they bundled up when they came, because Twinkie couldn't seem to make enough heat to keep up with the heat drain. OAT was -27C for a while there. Guess I could have powered down and slowed down a little to allow the heater to keep up, but as it was we were doing 195kts over the ground and I figured that would shorten the duration for them.

Hopefully I will get another opportunity to do it again soon. Took my wife with me to "expand" her flying envelope a little. At first she was not so impressed, but she "warmed" up to the flight by the end. She hates IMC of any kind, and especially if there are concerns, like ice. Had to do an approach at ROC, but it was not real low.

And I really like the autopilot and new PFD. They really make life a lot easier. I almost make it look like I know how to fly with those things.
 
Sounds like a great flight Bryon. You bought up a good point. Its rare that any of us here fly in the back seat of a GA plane so we can forget how chilly it can get back there. When we do angel fligts I make it a point to throw and old blanket or two in the back. A few of thos hand warmer packets can help as well.
 
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