And that why we preflight, folks

Bill

Bill

Touchdown! Greaser!
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C9497245-C97D-4570-89E5-24BD302CD0F6.jpeg F4DD8F0D-5699-4283-8081-F9E1E65B0B5A.jpeg A4953B87-4F1F-490B-954F-8906C98B3B43.jpeg 4B025895-F7C0-4411-99C3-9E5ED3C43F8E.jpeg Nice day today, so I though I’d go bore some holes in the sky. Start the preflight, and sump the right tank. Hmmm, that doesn’t look right. Walk out into the sunlight, still doesn’t look right. Sniff. Smells like pond water. Pour across fingers and smell again...pond water. Not a hint of gas. So I pull another, and another, and another after that....

After pulling ten samples of pure water, I say bull chips and start walking to the FBO. They say nobody has complained of bad gas, They give me a bucket, and this is how much more water I pulled before starting to get a little gas. The bucket is 10” in diameter.

This is the fourth pull after starting to get gas, you can see the gas/water line below my thumb. After another 15 pulls or so it looks clean.

At this point I take a careful look around, find no Zulu chasing me with spears, and decide it’s a fine day NOT to fly!

I’ll let the tanks settle overnight and go pull more samples tomorrow and then probably go fly after an extended ground idle on both tanks.

It’s shocking as we’ve owned the plane since 2006 and have never had water in the gas. My partner flew it back from HXD on the 16th, drew from both tanks, put 10 gallons in each wing at the FBO and immediate put the plane in the hangar.

Hmmm
 
Or something more devious may be going on. Got any enemies?
 
Wow, that’s a lot of water! Now I’m anxious to go see if we’ve got water in our tank...
 
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I got water out of a 172 once, just from one tank. Took about 5 or so sumps to do so, and it was an old beat up 172 tied down outside.

The amount of water you pulled is beyond suspicious. Either the FBO is lying to you about “no complaints” or someone is after you. I hope you lock your doors at night.
 
Bill Jennings said:
It’s shocking as we’ve owned the plane since 2006 and have never had water in the gas. My partner flew it back from HXD on the 16th, drew from both tanks, put 10 gallons in each wing at the FBO and immediate put the plane in the hangar.
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I was thinking "there was a lot of rain and wind yesterday", but you've had it since 2006 and it's rained heavier in that time. Then I saw you put it in the hangar.

That's might curious. I agree that letting it sit some more is a good idea.
 
Does the FBO have a surveillance camera? They should, and you should ask to see it. The FBO should have a serious interest in getting to the bottom of it too, since if they have contaminated gas, that is a crash/es waiting to happen, and the ensuing lawsuits.
 
I had to sump 5 times in a row from an Arrow after a thunderstorm, but that doesn't compare to your story
 
I've seen multiple sumps of water once, from one side. It was obvious why once I opened the tank as someone had managed to close the cap with the chain between the wing and the gasket and a thunderstorm had come through.
 
Years ago I was sumping the club's 182 and had a bunch of crud come out with the gas. We wound up having the entire system drained and cleaned. And that plane is hangered, too. Haven't had any trouble since. I'd love to hear where that water came from.
 
jeeez I'd be leery of that airplane even after you shake and sump and ground run, Bill.
Be careful, friend.
Maybe a cap seal is worn.
Think you would have caught that on a night flight? Anyway, good job.
 
Yup
BC6-EA06-F-926-E-40-E1-A1-CB-DB7-DE88-BEBC3.jpg


And even when it looks good it might not be

http://www.sumpthis.com/cessna150andcessna152tanktest/cessna150tanktestimages1024x768.htm
 
Geosync said:
Does the FBO have a surveillance camera?
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Yes they do.

I’d be curious if any of the other hangar neighbors experienced this. I’m a bit curious myself as I’ve recently taken on a new airplane at this airport.
 
That’s crazy. Wonder if that’s the same bucket someone used to water your tanks :hairraise:
 
This past summer my FBO was informed of an aircraft incident that occurred roughly 600nm away. They were notified because they had fueled that airplane the previous day. As soon as they were notified they stopped using the fuel trucks involved and contacted their fuel supplier. The FBO checked fuel and equipment; everything checked out okay.

Look, I’m not saying your FBO is at fault. But their response seems...disappointing.
 
As Let'sgoflying! mentioned above, before you run off to the lawyers, check the fuel caps.

Yes, possible even in a hanger.

I live in a very dry climate yet still find a few drops of water every now and then.
 
Zeldman said:
As Let'sgoflying! mentioned above, before you run off to the lawyers, check the fuel caps.

Yes, possible even in a hanger.

I live in a very dry climate yet still find a few drops of water every now and then.
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I always sump. In a few years I only saw water once- after annual. They drained fuel out to replace a valve and then put it back in. I suspect there was some water in what ever they use to move hold fuel.
 
You could be the first complaint.

I've gotten about 2 cups of water out of a relatively new 182 tied down outside before. Of course it happens and that is why we always preflight.
 
Sumped my cub one day and I smelt it before I dumped it out. Didn’t smell right, so I did it again. All water. Pulled the quick drain for a few seconds and poured it into a bucket. Then got this out of it before I got fuel. Sump froze. Pushed it back in the hangar and waited for another day
aea69c2cdbe2bde0560972bb9461e09e.jpg


That’s why you take a sniff of the sample before getting rid of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Lachlan said:
Such a great link... and somewhat concerning.
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Yeah, however I have a 150 that is always parked outside and I sometimes (not always) get a drop or two of water, never more. Even last year in the torrential and constant rains, there was never more than the occasional drop. We even took out one tank this fall for repair and did not find 84 oz of water sitting in the bottom of it. So how are these random single drops of water getting to my sump drain if the test shows that you need more than half a gallon until the water reaches the drain?
Kinda makes me want to use my boroscope to look inside the tank while I pour in some water and see where it all goes, but I also dont have the time to drain and clean the tank in case it doesn’t all come back out.

One thing that could make a difference is to just push down on the tail so that the nose wheel comes off the ground before sumping the tank. That would cause the water to drain back towards the sump (single C150 sump).
 
Zeldman said:
As Let'sgoflying! mentioned above, before you run off to the lawyers, check the fuel caps.
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Especially since Mooneys had ADs and service bulletins addressing water intrusion via bad seals on the fuel caps. It’s often not the outer seal that is easy to see, it is the inner one where the shaft goes through the cap and sits in a recess that is handy for funneling water into the tank.

I’ve seen similar amounts of water in fuel tanks after flying through heavy rain. By chance did this happen here? Or did the last person who flew it sump the fuel and get 100% water so they thought it was ok because they had no fuel in the sample to reference?
 
I once pulled a pint of water out of one of my 182’s wet wing tanks at the third flight since the last fill. There are enough places for a gob of water to hide in those kind of tanks to turn you into a happy sumper.
 
Is this plane hangared, even in a T Hangar?

Several years ago I had a few years of successful hail shed experience. They came along and made me move outside for a few days while they painted the hangar roof. Of course a good storm came along and when I took a fuel sample it was full of water. I always, always, always sump the tanks and the main drain. On the Mooney I can easily get a sample on the main drain, so it always gets checked for water too. On the Cessna I drain the main drain and look for water on the ground but that’s not as certain as a captured sample.

water won’t burn folks. Sump those tanks!
 
mondtster said:
Especially since Mooneys had ADs and service bulletins addressing water intrusion via bad seals on the fuel caps. It’s often not the outer seal that is easy to see, it is the inner one where the shaft goes through the cap and sits in a recess that is handy for funneling water into the tank.

I’ve seen similar amounts of water in fuel tanks after flying through heavy rain. By chance did this happen here? Or did the last person who flew it sump the fuel and get 100% water so they thought it was ok because they had no fuel in the sample to reference?
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We have the o-rings replaced every annual, and I assumed the shaft seal is replaced as well. But, you know, assume. I'll ask for sure this time.

As for history of last flight, my partner flew the bird back from HXD on the 16th, and he said he drew from each tank on the return flight, then put 10g in each side, then hangared the plane. The flight was not in rain. Interesting, though, is he said he filled the left tank 1st, and it was the right one that had all the water. So possibly a leaking hangar combined with bad gas cap seals? On my list is to get to the hangar during the next hard rain and see if it's leaking over the wing.

MBDiagMan said:
Is this plane hangared, even in a T Hangar?!
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Plane was hangared immediately after fueling, and AFAIK, was not moved for any hangar MX.

As for the tanks, sumped them again yesterday, and now no water was found in the right tank, and only a very little in the left. Sumping the gascolator was clean.


Had no time to fly yesterday as family and dinners and things, but will probably fly it Saturday.
 
Clip4 said:
What happens from poor fuel truck procedures.
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There have been available, for a long time now, waterblock fuel filters that trap water and will not pass it. Once the filter media is full of water the fuel flow stops altogether. Every airport fuel pump should have one, whether on the truck or stationary pump.
 
Bill Jennings said:
We have the o-rings replaced every annual, and I assumed the shaft seal is replaced as well. But, you know, assume. I'll ask for sure this time.

As for history of last flight, my partner flew the bird back from HXD on the 16th, and he said he drew from each tank on the return flight, then put 10g in each side, then hangared the plane. The flight was not in rain. Interesting, though, is he said he filled the left tank 1st, and it was the right one that had all the water. So possibly a leaking hangar combined with bad gas cap seals? On my list is to get to the hangar during the next hard rain and see if it's leaking over the wing.



Plane was hangared immediately after fueling, and AFAIK, was not moved for any hangar MX.

As for the tanks, sumped them again yesterday, and now no water was found in the right tank, and only a very little in the left. Sumping the gascolator was clean.


Had no time to fly yesterday as family and dinners and things, but will probably fly it Saturday.
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Is this a Cessna to which that AD I posted applies? If you still have the original flush caps, the AD requires a placard on the panel requiring you to lower the tail and rock the wings vigorously to dislodge water from behind bladder wrinkles and get it to the sump drain. It's a pain to do that, which is why most owners opt to get the raised-caps kits instead. They don't let water in so easily. The placard isn't required with the raised caps.

Cessna has another service kit to move the drain valve aft and inboard to pull the wrinkles out, but if the bladders are old and hardened they won't do much. And it's time-consuming to install that kit.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Is this a Cessna to which that AD I posted applies?
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Nope, Mooney M20J 201 with standard wet wings. Cap is recessed, though, so I will be sure the shop replaces the shaft seal as well as the o-rings when it goes in.
 
Dan Thomas said:
If you still have the original flush caps, the AD requires a placard on the panel requiring you to lower the tail and rock the wings vigorously to dislodge water from behind bladder wrinkles and get it to the sump drain. It's a pain to do that, which is why most owners opt to get the raised-caps kits instead. They don't let water in so easily.
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My CFI showed me this on my second lesson years ago in a 152 prior to going in to learn how to create a NAV log ... came back out about 30 minutes later and we got a couple of shots of water. Said the same ... mainly for bladder tanks, but found that several have little "speed" bumps in the tank or larger. Haven't sumped water since ...
 
Place rubber “Welcome Mats” over your fuel caps. The mats are heavy enough in most cases to prevent water from leaking into fuel caps during rain showers. My C195 has similar caps. Sort of difficult to rock the wings on a Mooney :)

I bet you will find out if the fuel was dispensed with water...get the FBO to pump a couple 5 gallon cans for you and check them as well.
 
Flew the plane short hop to drop it off for annual. Didn’t die, no issues with the engine, but I also didn’t draw fuel from the right tank.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Flew the plane short hop to drop it off for annual. Didn’t die, no issues with the engine, but I also didn’t draw fuel from the right tank.
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Might have checked the fuel strainer after the flight to see if anything showed up there.
 
I’m always more suspect at that low traffic airport with fuel that sits in the delivery tank forever. Of course parking outside in the rain is another red flag. That’s not to say to blow off other times, just some ops one needs higher vigilance.
 
smv said:
...and to think there are CFIs out there that advocate (and teach) not sumping "during the winter". Their reasoning? Any water in the tank will be frozen anyway. By sumping when there is ice in the tank you can cause the sump to be blocked open or damage the O-ring. o_O
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The big thing here was recognizing the entire 1st sample (and many after that) was pure water. I'm glad I had an old crusty curmudgeon of a CFI who taught me to also smell, and if necessary, pour the sample across your fingers to really know what is coming out of the tanks.

sourdough44 said:
I’m always more suspect at that low traffic airport with fuel that sits in the delivery tank forever. Of course parking outside in the rain is another red flag. That’s not to say to blow off other times, just some ops one needs higher vigilance.
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Yes, and the tank my partner filled it from is an older in-ground tank that has no means of sumping. So, the FBO just assumes the fuel is good.
 
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