And if you thought the last student was painful to listen to...

denverpilot

denverpilot

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DenverPilot
It never ends.


Again, on the instructor if you ask me.

I thought the controller saved it near the beginning... settled the guy down... but.... nope.
 
I hate that phraseology “fly suggested heading” nonsense.
 
wow...two days in a row. i can't decide which was more painful to listen to.
 
I heard that once at my airport, normally super nice tower controller was exasperated as this pilot got all twisted in a knot - you know it when you hear it - she was saturated, confused, and could no longer accept instruction. She finally told tower I'm getting out of your airspace to sort this out.

A little while later tower called the aircraft and said 'if you're still on frequency...' and gave her instructions. She was but declined, saying in essence, 'I'm going to screw my head on straight and call you when I'm ready to land.' I thought that was smart, she had enough wits about her to know she was still PIC. As I locked my hangar door she taxied past my row.
 
PaulS said:
Being a dick to the guy really helped.
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I didn’t hear that. For PHX the guy was extremely nice. I’d love to hear the same scenario in NY or Vegas. LOL.

The amount of training traffic around PHX is beyond insane. Listen to DVT sometime. Absolute stupidity some days.
 
denverpilot said:
I didn’t hear that. For PHX the guy was extremely nice. I’d love to hear the same scenario in NY or Vegas. LOL.

The amount of training traffic around PHX is beyond insane. Listen to DVT sometime. Absolute stupidity some days.
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Exactly, you or I wouldn't give a crap, but a nervous student, these guys should tone it down. I got dressed down twice for mistake on a call at DVT a year ago. On his second call to dress me down for the one call I screwed up, he went on for about 45 seconds. I forgot to tell him my direction and distance on my initial call up. He had one other plane in the pattern. While he was lecturing me about how precious radio time was I turned to the guy who was checking me out and said "I guess I deserve this", he said " no one deserves this". I think the guy checking me out thought I was going to argue with the controller, but I just told him "got it". Then when I reported midfield like he had asked, he lit into me again for going too fast in his pattern. I was in an SR-22, I called him back and said I was at 110 indicated, slowing to 100, pretty standard speeds for a 22. He had the original guy in the pattern about to touch down and a Eurcope 10 miles away inbound. I don't let controllers get under my skin.

Many of the NY guys are great, but there are a few who are tools. It's funny, there's a local controller around here who posts on Facebook, he had a great line, he said "If you think a controller is a jerk, don't feel bad, we think he is one too."
 
LOL. Yeah. PHX controllers can be a tad high strung.

I got a minor dressing down by one after his buddy put me on an assigned heading and altitude into his airspace and then dumped me on him.

I just said “assigned heading and altitude”.

The rather lengthy pause in all radio transmissions to everyone including me, seemed to indicate someone got an earful on the landline after that. Ha.

Chit happens. Any student flying around PHX who hadn’t heard it like this poor dude, wasn’t prepared by their instructor.

It’s similar here. Students are pretty much thrown in the deep end as far as speed of radio comma goes... but the controllers seem a whole lot less stressed out overall.
 
Sounds like @denverpilot is just missing the joys of teaching students and is itching to get back in the cockpit.

Glad you're feeling better, Nate!
 
PaulS said:
Being a dick to the guy really helped.
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I didn't hear that either. I heard a controller speaking firmly to a guy who was not complying with the help he asked for. I thought the controller did a great job.

I would have been tempted to put him on a heading away from my airspace. "Sioux 753, fly heading 300 until instructed otherwise." :)
 
Thought the controller did a great job, and I wouldn't necessarily be quick to put all the blame on the CFI. Sometimes students just have an unanticipated meltdown when they're sent out on their own. Or something happened while he was in the practice area that really rattled him, etc.
 
At about 2 minutes, why did the controller tell him since he didn't comply with his instructions he now had to reroute everyone? The controller suggested he fly 300 degrees, and it seemed like he was doing that (at least as well as I could see on my phone). Did I miss something else?
 
ColoPilot said:
At about 2 minutes, why did the controller tell him since he didn't comply with his instructions he now had to reroute everyone? The controller suggested he fly 300 degrees, and it seemed like he was doing that (at least as well as I could see on my phone). Did I miss something else?
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This is what I was thinking when I called him what was probably too strong of a name, the controller did calm down and did help him out. But the extra cajoling and telling the pilot his problems was counterproductive and unnecessary. Short concise instructions, save the editorializing for after. A simple, "NXXXX, I need you to fly the heading I assign, are you able to do that?" would have gotten the message across, or figured out if the pilot was having a bigger problem.
 
steingar said:
Because I don't want to be recorded if something went wrong. I get gawked at and made fun of enough without the existence of recordings like that.
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Unfortunately being recorded is part of life now, I wouldn't sweat it, we all screw up sometimes. As far as people gawking and making fun of you, sorry that happens, but I can pretty much guaranty you are better off than those giving you a hard time, don't let it get to you.
 
Well, clearly the student was not prepared procedurally or mentally to solo in this environment, as evidenced by the brain lockup and lack of awareness of the expected format and flow of information from tower. How did the student convince the instructor he was ready to fledge?
 
PaulS said:
A simple, "NXXXX, I need you to fly the heading I assign, are you able to do that?" would have gotten the message across, or figured out if the pilot was having a bigger problem.
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Ahh you’d think so, but that’s waaaaay too big a sentence for certain school’s students at DVT...

And that’s all I’m sayin’ about that. You can find details in other threads about DVT.
 
I think the most egregious action was the other pilot who flew a base instead of a downwind, and had to go around because of it.
 
steingar said:
Because I don't want to be recorded if something went wrong. I get gawked at and made fun of enough without the existence of recordings like that.
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Recordings are made for just that purpose, if something went wrong and not to make fun of anyone but to find fault and contributing factors to whatever incident required a transcript of that recording. I don't know how long you've been flying but ATC has been recording everything for many, many years. Now they only record when a radio or telephone or shout line is keyed up. In the past the "position" was recorded meaning that the story you told your buddy about your hot date last night was recorded, even if you weren't transmitting. It made transcripts interesting.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Recordings are made for just that purpose, if something went wrong and not to make fun of anyone but to find fault and contributing factors to whatever incident required a transcript of that recording.
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Uh. huh. That's what's going on in the threads on this site. Yeah, right.
 
denverpilot said:
Ahh you’d think so, but that’s waaaaay too big a sentence for certain school’s students at DVT...

And that’s all I’m sayin’ about that. You can find details in other threads about DVT.
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Lol, I hear you, my statement of course should include provided the students comprehends english.
 
Hawker800 said:
I’m glad the controller didn’t give him a phone number to call. The video would be 10 minutes longer.
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Nah .. just say what the class B buster said, "I can't copy a number ... I'm busy flying right now!" o_O
 
I heard a student who was just not prepared, yes there’s a chance something had him “off” but if I was a gambler I’d say a CFI soloed him before he was truly ready
 
What is happening here? Is this a part 141 school trying to push guys through to meet the syllabus schedule, or just pure instructor incompetence..??
 
Kritchlow said:
What is happening here? Is this a part 141 school trying to push guys through to meet the syllabus schedule, or just pure instructor incompetence..??
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Hmm. The answer to your question is probably, “Yes.”

Note the fleet callsign used — and I’ll leave it at that.
 
steingar said:
Uh. huh. That's what's going on in the threads on this site. Yeah, right.
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<Insert my confused look here> I wasn't talking about the threads on this site. The "recordings" in these threads are not audio and I might add, are purely voluntary.
 
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