Am I Setting up the Kid for Disappointment?

DJTorrente

DJTorrente

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DJTorrente
I have close friends whose son will be reaching a milestone birthday this year. They live within a couple of miles of a reliever airport, with lots of air traffic overhead, and under the paths for arrivals & departures from the closest metro Class B complex. We spent the day with them this weekend, and all he could talk about was the planes flying over our heads -- checking origin and destination on FlightRadar24 -- and he asked me lots of questions about my GA flying. I'd love to buy him a discovery flight and/or a few lessons for this birthday. His parents are supportive.

Here's the rub -- he's diagnosed with ADHD. I've been in and around this topic for years, both with the FAA and in 'real life'. I've pushed back on teachers who leaned hard on us to medicate our own kids when it clearly wasn't indicated or necessary. However, based on my layman's view, the kid in question realizes benefits in focus when he takes prescribed meds. Maybe he'll outgrow the need for them -- but he'll never outgrow the record. I'm dismayed to read that, even after 7 years operational experience with BasicMed, the FAA is still in the same place on this particular issue. It seems he might be better off -- solely from a medical approval standpoint -- if he were depressed and taking SSRIs.

So... is it worth encouraging his interest in flying? Does he have any prospect of overcoming this diagnosis with the FAA and becoming a pilot, either private or professional? I'm aware of gliders, including motorgliders, or ultralights not requiring medicals. I'd like him to be able to participate in a more mainstream way.
 
I may be wrong in this, but there is never any harm in encouragement. There is much harm in dishonesty. Absolutely, encourage him. But don't pretend it will be an easy or straight-forward path.

DJTorrente said:
I'm aware of gliders, including motorgliders, or ultralights not requiring medicals. I'd like him to be able to participate in a more mainstream way.
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And don't discount the value of these less-mainstream options.
 
Sport Pilot is still open to him. That would at the very least, in its current form, open up flying with another person at reasonable speeds and distances to make it fun and practical. Some LSA will get you pretty much anywhere at up to 120 knot cruise speeds.

IF the promises of MOSAIC actually come to pass, this could possibly improve even more. Bigger planes, more seats (but still only one passenger), and so on.

Some people are dismissive of Sport Pilot, lumping it in with ultralights. That’s a mistake.
 
Aviation is not all piloting. There’s controllers, A&Ps, and all kinds of folks that keep planes in the transportation system. Don’t just sell the pilot role. But who’s to say that the aeromed system won’t be improved in the future.
 
The FAA is moving, albeit at a glacial pace, towards allowing more people with a history of ADHD an avenue into the pilot's seat. @WingmanMed has posted that there is currently an effort to create ADHD CACI criteria for certain "simple" cases of distant childhood ADHD treatment. Without knowing this individual child, they might not have any issue getting a medical down the road, assuming the interest in aviation sticks.

This is all putting the cart before the horse by the way. It's a big leap to assume any one kid will want to be a pilot just because you took the flying or showed them around an airport at 13.
 
lbfjrmd said:
there is a path ... I rec d/c med at no later than ~ 15 yo and start application at 16 yo.
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I'd like to know more about that path. One of our Junior Assistant Apprentice Airport Bums is in the same boat, but a couple of years further down the road. I'd love to find a way for him to get a Private Pilot Cert. He got off of the meds at about 13-14 and is 15 now.
 
DJTorrente said:
I'd love to buy him a discovery flight and/or a few lessons for this birthday. His parents are supportive.
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Do it. But move him toward Sport Pilot and explain the situation to him and to his parents. If he loves flying and wants to pursue a PP ticket later, that’s the time to deal with whatever medical issues there may be. Don’t kill the enthusiasm now with an expensive and lengthy medical process; encourage SP flying and get him on the way to a certificate.

And who knows? With MOSAIC, he may decide a SP certificate is all he needs.
 
Talk to your friends first? (The kids parents)
See if this is going to be joyous or create arguments.
It’s an expensive activity to get into, are the parents ok with funding that?
What about EAA young eagles? They offer free flights to children I believe.
 
He'll need 90 days off his meds, then pass the FAA's neurocognitive eval. That is age-normed.

Bera in mind that the American Male Forebrain doesn't reach maturity utnil age 25 so the LETER teh better that he can do this eval the more of a chance he has. This is not a cheapie eval- it's not insurance paid and is nearly $3K (IMO that's the 50th percentile).
 
bbchien said:
He'll need 90 days off his meds, then pass the FAA's neurocognitive eval. That is age-normed.

Bera in mind that the American Male Forebrain doesn't reach maturity utnil age 25 so the LETER teh better that he can do this eval the more of a chance he has. This is not a cheapie eval- it's not insurance paid and is nearly $3K (IMO that's the 50th percentile).
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In the meantime, while he's waiting for his American Male Forebrain to mature, he can get a SP ticket and fly.

(And that age 25 might be optimistic; I'm still waiting for mine to mature.)
 
So a kid on meds is perfectly normal, while another kid is perfectly normal until he takes some meds. The FAA allows the latter to self-certify his health to fly but the former is SOL. Stupid, short-sighted rule.
 
Stewartb said:
So a kid on meds is perfectly normal, while another kid is perfectly normal until he takes some meds. The FAA allows the latter to self-certify his health to fly but the former is SOL. Stupid, short-sighted rule.
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The FAA doesnt "allow" it, if you are talking basicmed.

And honestly, the FAA doesnt want either one. Just that one is not fully complying with the letter of the law and taking matters in to their own hands.
 
Hoping the new ADHD protocol comes out tomorrow with this month's AME Guide updates. But based on what we recommended, it was with no meds since a young age. Though I'm not sure how similar their final version will be compared to what we recommended.
 
What's really ironic is that back in ~2010, they had an informal understanding- no meds since High school, Good grades in college and continuously successful (recommended) performance for at least two years out of college with no gaps-->judgement that if there was a cognitive disorder, it couldn't be terible and so the SI was issued.

My how the fashion changes, era by era.....
 
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It isn't a sudden change. We know it is coming, just not exactly when. We were hopeful for this month, but the FAA is a bureaucratic organization and sometimes things take longer than expected.
 
bbchien said:
He'll need 90 days off his meds, then pass the FAA's neurocognitive eval. That is age-normed.

Bera in mind that the American Male Forebrain doesn't reach maturity utnil age 25 so the LETER teh better that he can do this eval the more of a chance he has. This is not a cheapie eval- it's not insurance paid and is nearly $3K (IMO that's the 50th percentile).
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Would the same criteria and process apply to Asperger's?
 
Half Fast said:
In the meantime, while he's waiting for his American Male Forebrain to mature, he can get a SP ticket and fly.

(And that age 25 might be optimistic; I'm still waiting for mine to mature.)
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A question in my mind is whether it is responsible to encourage this. In other words, we want the person involved to be a safe pilot. I'm wondering if the ability to hold a driver's license and successfully complete the sport-pilot training and checkride would be an adequate indicator of this.
 
Palmpilot said:
A question in my mind is whether it is responsible to encourage this. In other words, we want the person involved to be a safe pilot. I'm wondering if the ability to hold a driver's license and successfully complete the sport-pilot training and checkride would be an adequate indicator of this.
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Combined with the judgment of responsible parents, the youngster’s doctor, and a CFI, I believe it is. Let’s let the parents and physician decide, rather than folks like us who haven’t even met the kid.
 
Palmpilot said:
A question in my mind is whether it is responsible to encourage this. In other words, we want the person involved to be a safe pilot. I'm wondering if the ability to hold a driver's license and successfully complete the sport-pilot training and checkride would be an adequate indicator of this.
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Half Fast said:
Combined with the judgment of responsible parents, the youngster’s doctor, and a CFI, I believe it is.
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And don’t forget the FAA. Apparently they also feel it’s adequate.
 
Palmpilot said:
Would the same criteria and process apply to Asperger's?
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Different kettle of fish. That disorder is not about distractability. Aspergers is about defective inter human interactions. Might be “no bueno” in a PIC: judge, jury, AND Baliff, while “asea”.
 
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Imagine how few automobiles would be on the roads if the Feds had regulated them like they do aircraft. Imagine how hard it would be to abuse pilots if there were 233,000,000 of them (the number of licensed drivers) instead of 700,000 certificated pilots.

Everyone asks why we don't have flying cars yet. My answer is "Federal Regulation".
 
bbchien said:
What's really ironic is that back in ~2010, they had an informal understanding- no meds since High school, Good grades in college and continuously successful (recommended) performance for at least two years out of college with no gaps-->judgement that if there was a cognitive disorder, it couldn't be terible and so the SI was issued.

My how the fashion changes, era by era.....
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The arbitrary and changing standards for issuance over time to those diagnosed and treated for childhood ADHD (and many other medical issues) make it obvious the elite that modify the rules are motivated by exercising and expanding the bureaucratic power gained upon appointment to their position.

An advancement in bureaucratic hierarchy to a position which allows the individual to promulgate and change rules by fiat, thereby gaining stature in the eyes of other government minions and the ability to unnecessarily disrupt the lives of those they are supposed to serve, is the goal of a great percentage of individuals in those positions. These people thrive on the consolidation of power in their sphere of influence, and it's a position almost all of them aspire to.
 
I personally don’t think it is the bureaucrats (a terrible term by the way!) but instead the process. Just compare the “owner’s manual” for say a 1968 airplane with the flight manual for a 2023 Cessna 172. There is a tendency for regs to grow as they get nit picked.
 
3393RP said:
The arbitrary and changing standards for issuance over time to those diagnosed and treated for childhood ADHD (and many other medical issues) make it obvious the elite that modify the rules are motivated by exercising and expanding the bureaucratic power gained upon appointment to their position.

An advancement in bureaucratic hierarchy to a position which allows the individual to promulgate and change rules by fiat, thereby gaining stature in the eyes of other government minions and the ability to unnecessarily disrupt the lives of those they are supposed to serve, is the goal of a great percentage of individuals in those positions. These people thrive on the consolidation of power in their sphere of influence, and it's a position almost all of them aspire to.
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I don't put much faith in assumptions about other people's motives.
 
3393RP said:
The arbitrary and changing standards for issuance over time to those diagnosed and treated for childhood ADHD (and many other medical issues) make it obvious the elite that modify the rules are motivated by exercising and expanding the bureaucratic power gained upon appointment to their position.

An advancement in bureaucratic hierarchy to a position which allows the individual to promulgate and change rules by fiat, thereby gaining stature in the eyes of other government minions and the ability to unnecessarily disrupt the lives of those they are supposed to serve, is the goal of a great percentage of individuals in those positions. These people thrive on the consolidation of power in their sphere of influence, and it's a position almost all of them aspire to.
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The whimsical changing of standards by OKC is partly why I love Basic Med. Every 3rd class renewal is an opportunity for denial depending on the fashion of the day.
 
Half Fast said:
Yeah, I suppose traffic would be reduced by the advent of the $200,000 Yugo....
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Used, maybe. But your point is well taken. A new Skyhawk lists for $432,000. And it doesn't even have a bathroom or kitchen.
 
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