Aluminum trucks coming. Big industry bet - what will consumers say?

N747JB said:
David, we've traded in 3 2014 Chevy High Country 4X4's this month, the highest mileage one was 7800 miles. :D Two of them were life long Chevy owners, not saying you'll like it, but don't drive one if you aren't ready to buy it. :D:D
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Times are pretty good for Ford dealers I think. Great lineup, hardly any serious domestic competition, and good deals from the manuf.

I'm guessing you don't miss the pre-new-Mustang days?
 
josephbelt01 said:
I can comment on this from experience:

Last year I was driving a 2007 BMW 328i convertible. I was stopped in the center of the road, waiting to make a left hand turn into a ramp. I was hit head on by a late model Dodge Ram diesel 4x4 pickup. The entire front of my car was crushed and the spun the car around. It was totaled but I walked away without a scratch. I literally had no bumps or bruises and went to work the next morning. The first responders who arrived couldn't believe it.

The girl driving the Dodge Ram diesel 4x4 was taken away in an ambulance.

Lots of potential variables here of course but it's my only experience. I bought another BMW - 335i Coupe - a week later.


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The more your car crushes, the better, as long as the passenger compartment does not deform.
 
Business is pretty decent right now, no where near the good old days but it's picking up! :D
mtuomi said:
Times are pretty good for Ford dealers I think. Great lineup, hardly any serious domestic competition, and good deals from the manuf.

I'm guessing you don't miss the pre-new-Mustang days?
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Should have just gone straight to carbon fiber...
 
bflynn said:
Should have just gone straight to carbon fiber...
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Still too expensive, probably triple of aluminum, I doubt they could sell enough. Maybe a limited SVO series run with 700+hp all decked out for $95,000+. More worthwhile to do something like that in the GT 40 program, but a pickup may attract enough to make it feasible.
 
The new GT 40 is carbon fiber, I think, but it's also $400K!:yikes: I don't know how well it would hold up in a pick up bed, and right now the cost seems too high for a mass produced vehicle like an F-150.

Henning said:
Still too expensive, probably triple of aluminum, I doubt they could sell enough. Maybe a limited SVO series run with 700+hp all decked out for $95,000+. More worthwhile to do something like that in the GT 40 program, but a pickup may attract enough to make it feasible.
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N747JB said:
The new GT 40 is carbon fiber, I think, but it's also $400K!:yikes: I don't know how well it would hold up in a pick up bed, and right now the cost seems too high for a mass produced vehicle like an F-150.
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It's not really a material that lends itself well to the industry. The techniques are even fussier than with fiberglass, and even there we only have a few limited production FG cars out there, the Corvette is probably the only one out there with any significant numbers.

What I think is the best concept is the Fiero/Saturn concept that evolved into the Smart. Space cage passenger module with snap on panels. This actually would be extremely cool with 3D printing technology. It will be simple to allow people to design/modify/personalize their own car using software templates that anchor onto a few given chassis designs. Your custom printed body panels snap onto the chassis on the line.
 
The DC3 was a big hit and lasted 70 years, still going. Hint......it was not steel construction. Hauled lots of cargo. Ford should do well.
 
Well this consumer rushed out to buy one of the last steel F-150's. Got a crazy good deal too.
 
The steel F150 is dead. That stamping plant is empty nowadays. Everything moved to Aluminum in Dearborn, MI.
 
narchee said:
Well this consumer rushed out to buy one of the last steel F-150's. Got a crazy good deal too.
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You and a few others, the price gap right now on a high end truck is $8-10K! :yikes: With the price increase, more features and a small rebate on the 2015's the 2014's are a relative bargain! :D
 
Rotarywing said:
The steel F150 is dead. That stamping plant is empty nowadays. Everything moved to Aluminum in Dearborn, MI.
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Yeah the Michigan truck plant is up and running with the new truck and Kansas City will be on line in mid-February! I suspect we will see aluminum on the Super Duties sooner rather than later too! :D
 
Average consumer doesn't know and doesn't care what its made of, as long as it looks tuff and the interior is pretty and it has a little get up, and ofcourse, the price is right.
 
James331 said:
Average consumer doesn't know and doesn't care what its made of, as long as it looks tuff and the interior is pretty and it has a little get up, and ofcourse, the price is right.
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At least partially true, people seem to be excited about this truck, 700 lb weight savings is pretty big! :D For some folks they don't care if it's built out of stone, just as long as the payment is under $400 a month! :dunno:
 
Jimmy cooper said:
The DC3 was a big hit and lasted 70 years, still going. Hint......it was not steel construction. Hauled lots of cargo. Ford should do well.
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The DC-3 didn't have a daily dosing of road salt.

If you use the right alloys and tempers there is no real detraction to using aluminum, I am interested in seeing ho the paint process holds up. Maybe we'll finally get something better than we have.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Many of them will only go to the super market or the bowling alley so not to worry.
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I'd say 20% of the trucks we sell are for actual work, the other 80% are for commuting to work and picking up a couple bales of straw at Home Depot! But, that's fine with me, most airplanes are for fun and not work! :D
 
I think the number of miles I put on my Dodge truck without the bed full or towing something is barely double digits. However, I think a large number of people have the F-150 as a second 'car', so it does double duty. Most women in TX wouldn't hesitate to hop in a truck and get groceries or pick the kids up from soccer.
 
Henning said:
The DC-3 didn't have a daily dosing of road salt.

If you use the right alloys and tempers there is no real detraction to using aluminum, I am interested in seeing ho the paint process holds up. Maybe we'll finally get something better than we have.
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It's not the road salt so much as the fire danger. It's not just aluminum it's an alloy, which in many cases burns extremely well, in say, an accident. . Road salt can be protected against and has been for years in car -truck construction. The U.S. navy destroyed several modern ships after the Falklands war as they were made, above the water line of mostly aluminum. During the Falklands war , a british ship was hit and burned out of control. In the case of ford, I don't think there's much danger of this either. Ford will certainly preparethe chassis and the body well. That's old tech.
 
I manufacture an aluminum product here in the US, and my aluminum prices went up about 35%, I asked my sales rep why and he said because ford is buying so much more aluminum with their new truck. Back to the drawing boards on pricing.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
It's not the road salt so much as the fire danger. It's not just aluminum it's an alloy, which in many cases burns extremely well, in say, an accident. . Road salt can be protected against and has been for years in car -truck construction. The U.S. navy destroyed several modern ships after the Falklands war as they were made, above the water line of mostly aluminum. During the Falklands war , a british ship was hit and burned out of control. In the case of ford, I don't think there's much danger of this either. Ford will certainly preparethe chassis and the body well. That's old tech.
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Fire is an absolute non-issue.

People are talking like aluminum is a new thing in car manufacturing. It's been out for 20 years, and so far I haven't heard of any fire hazards with Audi A8 etc.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
It's not the road salt so much as the fire danger. It's not just aluminum it's an alloy, which in many cases burns extremely well, in say, an accident. . Road salt can be protected against and has been for years in car -truck construction. The U.S. navy destroyed several modern ships after the Falklands war as they were made, above the water line of mostly aluminum. During the Falklands war , a british ship was hit and burned out of control. In the case of ford, I don't think there's much danger of this either. Ford will certainly preparethe chassis and the body well. That's old tech.
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The U.S. Navy also lost one over in the Mid East scene back in the 80s IIRC. Yep, there's a good few aluminum alloys with magnesium in them that do indeed burn very hot.
 
If the truck is going to burn, the small amount of Mag in the alloy will be the absolute last thing to catch. Every other bit of the truck will be consumed by the time the Mag lights off. A complete non-issue. You'll be cooked and melted into a plastic-goo by the time the Mag goes.
 
docmirror said:
If the truck is going to burn, the small amount of Mag in the alloy will be the absolute last thing to catch. Every other bit of the truck will be consumed by the time the Mag lights off. A complete non-issue. You'll be cooked and melted into a plastic-goo by the time the Mag goes.
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It does make the fire hotter and burn longer after it breaks down and you set it on fire waiting for a ride though.:lol:
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Many of them will only go to the super market or the bowling alley so not to worry.
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This is true. Many of my neighbors crawl over the speed bumps in their 4x4 trucks & SUVs, while I take my little Ranger over them at 15 mph. Won't hurt an F150 to go that fast, or more, but not here . . .

I have one aluminum vehicle (see avatar), and have no desire to drive one down the road every day. I don't always use my truck as a truck, but I do haul yard waste, firewood, topsoil, manure, gravel, bulky items, lumber, etc., periodically. Just Harry Homeowner stuff, really. It would be like keeping my plane outside and abusing it it every time I fly.

Just don't see the aluminum rears lasting 10+ years like my steel ones have (first truck sold at 14 years, second (small) truck going strong at 12, no plan to replace soon).

How does Ford protect against corrosion, both environmental and dissimilar metals? You know, aluminum bed to steel frame? Steel bolts through the aluminum bed surface? Spare tire hanger under the aluminum bed? It just moves the corrosion to use aluminum bolts for this, besides the need for more and larger aluminum bolts.

No thank you!! Ford can keep their aluminum truck beds, I sure don't want one.
 
There is no fire danger with the aluminum in the F150..... quit making stupid **** up.
 
Henning said:
What aluminum is it?:dunno: 6061 burns IIRC.
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These are structural elements..... thick sections, they will not burn unless you powder them or possibly very thin sheets exposed to high temps and/or oxygen could burn. The biggest problem with aluminum is that it loses it's strength quickly at very high temps, which a pickup would not normally see. If it does get that hot, weakened aluminum is the least of your problems.
 
It just doesn't seem right... V6 powered F150 made of weaker lighter metal. I understand the move with the requirement to be more fuel efficient. For that you need smaller engines and lighter bodies. But...it's going to be more of a girl's truck now. :D Seriously though I wouldn't get the first few years of it while Ford learns how to make an aluminum vehicle.
 
PaulS said:
These are structural elements..... thick sections, they will not burn unless you powder them or possibly very thin sheets exposed to high temps and/or oxygen could burn. The biggest problem with aluminum is that it loses it's strength quickly at very high temps, which a pickup would not normally see. If it does get that hot, weakened aluminum is the least of your problems.
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Yeah, don't get me wrong, I don't see a problem with using aluminum, and I'm hoping that we get an improvement in paint technology for aluminum, because 'state of the art' right now still kinda sucks.

Is it possible to order one of the trucks 'negative paint'? If I could buy one bare and then polish it and do the accents in Candy Apples from House of Kolor, that would make me sorely tempted.

Most commercial and industrial aluminum structures, including boats, are kept in bare aluminum for two reasons. The natural oxide coating it develops is far superior in regards to the protection and preservation of the material than paint (paint can actually help speed deterioration) and the fact that paint is a bloody nightmare to keep on the aluminum. It's like the stuff is saying "What is this junk? Get it off me, I've got myself covered thanks, just leave me alone."

The only thing I have found that works well on an aluminum deck is the Rhino Liner process.
 
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