Altitude and oxygen levels

Status
Not open for further replies.
Witmo said:
Hypothetical situation: My cans of oxygen in the flight levels run out and my fingers start to tingle . How much faster than VNE can I descend before I have to worry about the wings falling off? Hypothetical only but if ever I have to exceed VNE to save my life, I don't want to be limited by a colored stripe on my airspeed indicator... What an idiot!
Click to expand...

So as soon as you cross the colored stripe your wings will fall off?

I guess you have never heard of a safety factor? Probably not.
 
While I might go over VNE at a high altitude where the law of partial pressures assures there is less total force on the windscreen in an emergency, I sure wouldn't do it at near sea level where the pressures are higher.

(see what I did there! I'm so clever, haw, haw, haw)
 
docmirror said:
While I might go over VNE at a high altitude where the law of partial pressures assures there is less total force on the windscreen in an emergency, I sure wouldn't do it at near sea level where the pressures are higher.

(see what I did there! I'm so clever, haw, haw, haw)
Click to expand...

Wait... Vne is based on indicated airspeed which means that is what the aircraft feels regardless of altitude... unless I am missing a scientific law/principle that is... in which case I would very much like to learn more about it.
 
Last edited:
Mtns2Skies said:
Wait... Vne is based on indicated airspeed which means that is what the aircraft feels regardless of altitude... unless I am missing a scientific law/principle that is... in which case I would very much like to learn more about it.
Click to expand...

Nah, I was just being clever. Besides, one might have a CAS gauge in the plane.
 
This thread is why we need a thread voting system.

Vote+++
 
airguy said:
Flutter will likely get you first, and can happen well below Vne if you're high enough...
Click to expand...

Yup, owning a plane which is often susceptible to this, I'm well aware, but good point. Maybe the clever post wasn't worth it after all. Meh
 
Unregistered said:
Thev moist air/O2 mix sounds good. Does it use up the O2 more quickly than standard cannula?
Click to expand...

About the same as a standard cannula. They do use a lot more than any kind of on demand system because it is always flowing. Oxygen is a lot cheaper than a PO'd wife in my experience, I never worry about it.
 
docmirror said:
While I might go over VNE at a high altitude where the law of partial pressures assures there is less total force on the windscreen in an emergency, I sure wouldn't do it at near sea level where the pressures are higher.

(see what I did there! I'm so clever, haw, haw, haw)
Click to expand...

Of course you were being clever, but the bigger issue there is getting into mach issues at a high altitude (assuming flight levels).

Alexb2000 said:
About the same as a standard cannula. They do use a lot more than any kind of on demand system because it is always flowing. Oxygen is a lot cheaper than a PO'd wife in my experience, I never worry about it.
Click to expand...

:rofl:
 
Witmo said:
Hypothetical situation: My cans of oxygen in the flight levels run out and my fingers start to tingle . How much faster than VNE can I descend before I have to worry about the wings falling off? Hypothetical only but if ever I have to exceed VNE to save my life, I don't want to be limited by a colored stripe on my airspeed indicator... What an idiot!
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: Thread rating: - - - - - - -----------------:sleep:
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Closing in on the 50 minute mark. An employee came into the office and I requested that he ask me questions about our procedures (non aviation related)
Click to expand...

So you're really not at 25K or whatever - you're using equipment to simulate the altitude when in reality your at whatever your ground floor location is. Your entire body is not subject to the altitude, just your facemask equipment?
 
You also know that you are safe on the ground and not stressed about needing to outclimb that 22,000' storm or mountain.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
That's where your *you're* wrong, I'll never be embarrassed of my questions nor defense (?) of myself when I feel there's bullying going on. Sorry to disappoint you but in my world where life and death are very real possibilities (much like aviation) there is NO stupid question, we don't chastise employees for their lack of knowledge and when an employee doesn't see eye to eye we lay down the fact. WE DON'T SAY BECAUSE OSHA SAYS SO. That's silly and NOT HELPFUL. So please those who continue to down play my safety expertise and overall respect for safety, be my guest. But that doesn't change the fact that if you were on my location I would be respectful and do my best to keep you safe. I guess I'm just a human being. I get the strong sense from aviation that there's this "though art better then you" attitude, that's not to say everyone is that way. I have a word for them, but alas. I cannot say it. Frankly, I find it comical that there are so many keyboard bad asses.

I write this to you 15 minutes into my high altitude training session at 22,300ft. Do I feel like I cant *can't* write coherent sentences or fly a plane? Nope, I'll be good all the way till the 45 minute mark when my hands and arms start to tingle. I purposely engage in activities that will challenge the brain, JUST in case I ever (god forbid run into that unlikely scenario) which brings to mind...... I'll await the jokes about my response having something to do with me being at altitude....

What do you do when your *you're* 25,000FT plus in the air and you've planned brilliantly but you made a mistake (oh dear, hows that possible?) and your precious O2 runs out.... Descend sure, but how many minutes are you exposed? How will you react? Whats the average reaction? Those are what im *I'm* after.


FYI: I finish this post at the 19 minute mark at 22.3K and fully functional. :dunno:
Click to expand...
I'm not saying anything here. As a dear friend of mine says, you don't need more than one introduction! And this is what, your fifth?
 
murphey said:
So you're really not at 25K or whatever - you're using equipment to simulate the altitude when in reality your at whatever your ground floor location is. Your entire body is not subject to the altitude, just your facemask equipment?
Click to expand...

Correct, but the more important factor here is oxygen content. Your body doesnt know the difference if your simulating altitude or you're really at altitude, which makes training with this system a great tool. Much like others have stated it cannot take the place of being at altitude with a REAL situation. It can merely act as a tool to help acclimate your body to higher altitudes and give you an idea how you deal with the lack of oxygen. Like MOST training systems, its used to enhance your ability when you face the real scenario. Its a proven fact that any type of training is 100% better than doing nothing. :)


gprellwitz said:
I'm not saying anything here. As a dear friend of mine says, you don't need more than one introduction! And this is what, your fifth?
Click to expand...


Thanks Grant! That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. Thanks for proving my point. BTW, how much do I owe the grammar police in fines?
 
Everskyward said:
You also know that you are safe on the ground and not stressed about needing to outclimb that 22,000' storm or mountain.
Click to expand...


I agree, and your right. There is no substitute for actual experience. However, if I can get my body to acclimate to high altitudes the science behind the technology argues that I will be able to out perform those who do no use such equipment.

Basically, training with this equipment forces my body to make more red blood cells to make up for the deficiency in O2 I'm experiencing. More red blood cells= more O2 intake. So at sea level my heartbeat is really efficient (51 BPM) whereas at altitude it usually settles around 76BPM. This obviously means that I have more red blood cells than the average flat lander and would experience less negative side effects from altitude. That correlates to better performance in all areas whether its flying or running a mile. Its a win/win scenario honestly.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
So as soon as you cross the colored stripe your wings will fall off?

I guess you have never heard of a safety factor? Probably not.
Click to expand...

The safety factor belongs to the engineers of the airframe, not the pilot. Even RV drivers know that. :lol:


;)
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Reaching the 30 minute mark at 22.3K FT. Roughly 8.7% oxygen at the altitude.

Symptoms I am experiencing are visual focus, about a .5 second decrease in focus.
Click to expand...

:idea: Is this one of them thar auto-erotic asphyxiation machines I read about in the Penthouse forum? :eek:



:rofl:



;)
 
Geico266 said:
The safety factor belongs to the engineers of the airframe, not the pilot. Even RV drivers know that. :lol:


;)
Click to expand...
Holy heck, write this down - I am 100% in agreement with Geico for once!

As an engineer who has signed off on aircraft drawings, don't cut into my margin.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Correct, but the more important factor here is oxygen content.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your body doesnt know the difference if your simulating altitude or you're really at altitude,
Click to expand...

No it isn't.

Yes, it does.
 
Geico266 said:
:idea: Is this one of them thar auto-erotic asphyxiation machines I read about in the Penthouse forum? :eek:

;)
Click to expand...

You nutty bastage! Now I gotta clean my keyboard.:thumbsup::drink:

I'm gonna quit posting in this thread. It's just too much fun.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Go ahead and call the research team for hypoxico and argue with them. Im sure you could teach them a thing or two :no::no:
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you sir. I assure you, there is nothing I could teach the research team at Hypoxio. Absolutely nothing. :yikes:

And now, I will stop posting in here. Sorry,,,,
 
jason said:
Hey all, let's all do our best to keep the discussion on topic and cut out the personal crap.
Click to expand...

Yeah, THAT! So much for giving the thread a chance to turn around.

Per a vote of the MC, this thread is closed. Please take the bickering and insults off-line.... our rules of conduct are pretty clear on the point. How do all y'all think this kind of stuff looks to someone wanting to start in GA or wanting to join PoA?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top