All Things Insurance

Tim Wanasek

Tim Wanasek

Filing Flight Plan
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Jun 16, 2017
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Tim Wanasek
Hi All,
Just recently joined and noticed a handful of insurance questions right off the bat. I thought I would start this thread to answer any questions anyone might have.

A little background on me....I'm an ATP with about 6500 TT. I was furloughed in 2008 from an airline and started a new career in Aviation Insurance with an Underwriting Company. I spent 7 years underwriting a variety of risks from Pleasure and Business to Corporate aircraft to Commercial operators and manufacturers. In early 2016 I decided to make a move to the agency side of the business.

If there are any questions I can answer, please let me know!
 
Hi Pigpen,
Believe it or not, the market right now is extremely soft and the rates are the lowest they have ever been. With 18 markets writing Aviation Insurance, the competition is fierce and they all want the largest piece of a very small pie.

What kind of aircraft are you operating?
 
Who is big on insuring high performing exp's right now?
Can reasonable insurance be had on a Lancair IV?
 
Is flying into a North Pole Troll Hole covered under the standard policy ? Or is that a rider?

just kidding... welcome!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Who is big on insuring high performing exp's right now?
Can reasonable insurance be had on a Lancair IV?
Click to expand...

Depending on the pilots qualifications, there are probably 3 or 4 competitive markets on the exp's. The agency I work for has an EAA program and can find you the best deal with the best coverages.

Everyone's definition of "reasonable" is a little different, so that's hard to answer ;)
The more flight time and experience you have, the more reasonable it will get.
 
Skyrys62 said:
Is flying into a North Pole Troll Hole covered under the standard policy ? Or is that a rider?

just kidding... welcome!
Click to expand...

LOL!
I think that's a premium bearing endorsement.....Ill check on it and let you know!
 
Tim Wanasek said:
Hi Pigpen,
Believe it or not, the market right now is extremely soft and the rates are the lowest they have ever been. With 18 markets writing Aviation Insurance, the competition is fierce and they all want the largest piece of a very small pie.

What kind of aircraft are you operating?
Click to expand...

Right now
Cessna 172
Cessna 140
Pitts Model 12
Breezy
V35B Bonanza
We have a 540 powered Christen Eagle on the way. I just got some quotes on the Eagle and it is close to $4000.
My biplane time is:
60 hours Pitts S-2C
40 Hours Pitts Model 12
30 hours Christen Eagle
50 hours Skybolt
 
pigpenracing said:
Right now
Cessna 172
Cessna 140
Pitts Model 12
Breezy
V35B Bonanza
We have a 540 powered Christen Eagle on the way. I just got some quotes on the Eagle and it is close to $4000.
My biplane time is:
60 hours Pitts S-2C
40 Hours Pitts Model 12
30 hours Christen Eagle
50 hours Skybolt
Click to expand...

Ill do a little research Monday morning with my underwriting contacts and let you know what I find out.
 
Welcome Tim! Great to have you on forum and I am sure there are plenty of us with questions
 
Tim,

When flying internationally, (For example Cuba and/or Bahamas) Would I need to get special insurance when landing into those countries?
 
Tim Wanasek said:
Believe it or not, the market right now is extremely soft and the rates are the lowest they have ever been.
Click to expand...

Ha! That's fuuuuny! Not if you're a 300 hr, no complex endorsement pilot trying to get insurance on a T210 it's not.
 
Perhaps that's a question our insurance poster could address. Is 100 hours retract time still the magic number? Is make and model time even a factor of consequence, versus the aggregate total retract time?
 
JCranford said:
Ha! That's fuuuuny! Not if you're a 300 hr, no complex endorsement pilot trying to get insurance on a T210 it's not.
Click to expand...

I know it doesn't seem like it is, but it is. 10 years ago you would be paying double or more than what you are now.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Tim,

When flying internationally, (For example Cuba and/or Bahamas) Would I need to get special insurance when landing into those countries?
Click to expand...

Check your policy to see what territory you are covered for. Typically Bahamas are covered.....but your policy will state exactly what territory it covers.

Every Company views Cuba a bit differently.....some will charge to add Cuba as a covered territory and some will simply say it is included. You would need to check with you agent on that.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Perhaps that's a question our insurance poster could address. Is 100 hours retract time still the magic number? Is make and model time even a factor of consequence, versus the aggregate total retract time?
Click to expand...

It depends on the make and model and the hull value of the aircraft. The higher the value of the aircraft, the higher time requirements the Companies will put on it.

With that said, if a pilot doesn't meet the min requirements for an aircraft, they will look at the overall experience and make a determination. For example, if someone is looking for coverage on an aircraft that the Company has set a min req of 700 total time / 150 RG / 25 make and model.....and this pilot has 500 TT / 100RG / 75 make and model - - that 75 make and model will be the determining factor and the UW would quote. A pilots strong make and model time will usually trump any other flight time requirement the Company has.
 
Tim Wanasek said:
Check your policy to see what territory you are covered for. Typically Bahamas are covered.....but your policy will state exactly what territory it covers.

Every Company views Cuba a bit differently.....some will charge to add Cuba as a covered territory and some will simply say it is included. You would need to check with you agent on that.
Click to expand...

I don't currently own but where I rent doesn't cover it. I would have to buy secondary insurance for the trip. Do you know of some companies that cover just for the trip?
 
Tim Wanasek said:
Hi All,
Just recently joined and noticed a handful of insurance questions right off the bat. I thought I would start this thread to answer any questions anyone might have.

A little background on me....I'm an ATP with about 6500 TT. I was furloughed in 2008 from an airline and started a new career in Aviation Insurance with an Underwriting Company. I spent 7 years underwriting a variety of risks from Pleasure and Business to Corporate aircraft to Commercial operators and manufacturers. In early 2016 I decided to make a move to the agency side of the business.

If there are any questions I can answer, please let me know!
Click to expand...
Hi Tim,

I am just now considering buying a plane (July 2018 is the goal). I've been renting the last 4 years and its getting to the point it makes sense to have my own A/C. My dilema is I want to go HP, high useful load from the get go. I got a quote back when I only had about 100 TT and no IR, and it was about $8k for a Cessna T210. For the money, the 210 is a great value, fast, great useful load for when I'm hauling family for hunting and fishing. I also have an older model SR22 G2 on the list.

I don't need an exact quote, but given my hours below, what would you expect a reasonable rate to be for both a T210M-N or SR22 G2? a $2k diff? $4k diff?

PPL with IR - Have my commercial by end of year, and MAYBE sometime next year go full CFI.
Hours:
280 TT
220 PIC
4 hours RG
30 hours HP

Last part of that, I've heard a lot of the requirements are something like 25 hours solo, 100 hours in type, etc. Lets say now with my IR (and commercial before I get the plane), the rate is only $6k for the 210? I could easily get 100 hour in type within a year, what would I be looking at the following year? 50% reduction 33%?

Sorry...one last thing, how would it work to add-on Mexico? Can this be done as needed? or needs to be present for the life of the policy? Our family goes to mexico 2-3x a year.

Thanks again!
 
Sobsidian, you're going to get quotes on a T210 everywhere from 2600 to 7000. Your hours are almost exactly what mine are.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I don't currently own but where I rent doesn't cover it. I would have to buy secondary insurance for the trip. Do you know of some companies that cover just for the trip?
Click to expand...

You may be able to purchase a "non-owned policy" that would cover that territory. If you are renting, non-owned (NO) is something I highly recommend you purchase anyways. This will protect you in the event that you damage the flight schools aircraft. Most of the larger schools require you carry a minimum amount of NO coverage....and if the school you rent from doesn't, it is smart to purchase a policy anyways.
 
Tim,
All else being equal (same hours), does having a commercial rating help lower rates, compared to just PPL+IR?
I have no plans of flying commercially, but would get a CPL if it meant it could lower my rates (and if I decide to buy a plane someday).
 
ybitz said:
Tim,
All else being equal (same hours), does having a commercial rating help lower rates, compared to just PPL+IR?
I have no plans of flying commercially, but would get a CPL if it meant it could lower my rates (and if I decide to buy a plane someday).
Click to expand...

Ybitz,
The commercial license will lower your premium.....the % depends on how much your agent pushes the issue with your Underwriter.

In my opinion, if you aren't going to exercise the privileges of the Com license, the cost versus the premium savings probably isn't worth it.
 
sobsidian said:
Hi Tim,

I am just now considering buying a plane (July 2018 is the goal). I've been renting the last 4 years and its getting to the point it makes sense to have my own A/C. My dilema is I want to go HP, high useful load from the get go. I got a quote back when I only had about 100 TT and no IR, and it was about $8k for a Cessna T210. For the money, the 210 is a great value, fast, great useful load for when I'm hauling family for hunting and fishing. I also have an older model SR22 G2 on the list.

I don't need an exact quote, but given my hours below, what would you expect a reasonable rate to be for both a T210M-N or SR22 G2? a $2k diff? $4k diff?

PPL with IR - Have my commercial by end of year, and MAYBE sometime next year go full CFI.
Hours:
280 TT
220 PIC
4 hours RG
30 hours HP

Last part of that, I've heard a lot of the requirements are something like 25 hours solo, 100 hours in type, etc. Lets say now with my IR (and commercial before I get the plane), the rate is only $6k for the 210? I could easily get 100 hour in type within a year, what would I be looking at the following year? 50% reduction 33%?

Sorry...one last thing, how would it work to add-on Mexico? Can this be done as needed? or needs to be present for the life of the policy? Our family goes to mexico 2-3x a year.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Hi Sobsidian,
The 210 will probably be a higher premium than the Cirrus....I'm guessing here but probably 10 to 20% more. Each aircraft will have different training requirements as well. For example, on the Cirrus,some companies will require an annual check out with a CSIP instructor while others may be more stringent and require annual training at an approved 3rd party facility.

No Company will reduce by 50 or even 30% for just logging more time in the MM unless there is competition and they have to in order to keep your account. Without competition in play, the % depends on your agents skills and ability to negotiate with the Underwriter.

Mexico is typically a covered territory in a standard policy. Always verify prior to binding coverage. If it isn't, ask to have it included....should not be a charge to add it. With that said, if Mexico is a covered territory in your policy there is a separate Mexican liability policy that Mexico requires you carry. It has to be issued by a Mexican Company and is usually around $250 for an annual policy. The Company that you bind your primary policy with can obtain the Mexican liability policy as well.

Hope this helps! Give me a call or shoot me an email when you get ready to purchase the aircraft and I'll be happy to get you some solid quotes.
 
Last edited:
Tim Wanasek said:
If there are any questions I can answer, please let me know!
Click to expand...
From another thread:

I see lots of lower cost ADS-B out solutions for home-built and experimental planes that say they meet the ADS-B out standard. If I was to install one how would the FAA know I was not using a certified instrument?
Click to expand...
Because someone might not sign off your annual, and insurance companies also look for excuses not to pay.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I see this sort of thing a lot - fact or fiction?
Are the insurance companies going over the wreckage looking for things like light bulbs from NAPA, improperly worded log book entries, evidence that you were over gross, or, or, or... and refusing the claims?
 
in the ins biz for 40 yrs ,say hello to Conrad for me ,he might know my screen name
 
Hi Tim,

I have a question regarding who exactly is covered when flying the plane?

A little background first. We own a plane, my wife has 3,000hrs turbine, multi, commercial, IFR, floatplane, etc. I am now learning in the plane so was added at 0hrs. We then added the training FBO to our policy while I do the training and their stipulation was that the instructor has 182 experience (he had 100's of hours).

Now the question, if I wanted to let the instructor take another person up without me or my wife in the plane, is there still full coverage since he would not be conducting training?

Also, a funny quirk / question. Even though I was added as a 0 time pilot, our premium didn't go up a penny :) I believe its because of my wife's higher hour count, endorsements, etc. Its as if the insurance company believes she's both experienced enough and has enough skin in the game that my low time risk is much less of a factor. Is that right? Also, once I have my PPL finished should we be expecting our premium to go back up?
 
Sinistar said:
Hi Tim,

I have a question regarding who exactly is covered when flying the plane?

A little background first. We own a plane, my wife has 3,000hrs turbine, multi, commercial, IFR, floatplane, etc. I am now learning in the plane so was added at 0hrs. We then added the training FBO to our policy while I do the training and their stipulation was that the instructor has 182 experience (he had 100's of hours).

Now the question, if I wanted to let the instructor take another person up without me or my wife in the plane, is there still full coverage since he would not be conducting training?

Also, a funny quirk / question. Even though I was added as a 0 time pilot, our premium didn't go up a penny :) I believe its because of my wife's higher hour count, endorsements, etc. Its as if the insurance company believes she's both experienced enough and has enough skin in the game that my low time risk is much less of a factor. Is that right? Also, once I have my PPL finished should we be expecting our premium to go back up?
Click to expand...

Hi Sinistar,
I hate answering specific policy/coverage questions without looking at your actual policy first. The last thing I want to do is give you guidance on something like that and it be incorrect. I would highly recommend you pose these questions to your current agent. If you aren't happy with your agent I'd be happy to take over your account :)

I am surprised that your premium didn't increase adding you as a student pilot! Either your rates are already high or you got lucky!! It would be hard for an Underwriter to justify increasing the premium after you get your Private. A student pilot is a much higher risk....I would anticipate it staying the same.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
From another thread:



I see this sort of thing a lot - fact or fiction?
Are the insurance companies going over the wreckage looking for things like light bulbs from NAPA, improperly worded log book entries, evidence that you were over gross, or, or, or... and refusing the claims?
Click to expand...


It depends.....depends on the severity of the loss, on the depth at which the adjuster digs into log books and wreckage. I will say some Companies dig deeper than others. Most do not look for a reason to deny claims as they know that word spreads in the small aviation community and their reputation is at stake. If the loss is a gray area when it comes to policy language, they normally pay out. I've seen both end of the spectrum where a Company will pay when it was clear they didn't have to....and I've seen where it they fight the loss over a detail that wouldn't have affected the outcome of the loss one way or the other. My advise is to always strive to do things the right way and you won't have any issues.
 
Tim Wanasek said:
gray area when it comes to policy language, they normally pay out. I've seen both end of the spectrum where a Company will pay when it was clear they didn't have to
Click to expand...

Hi Tim, can you shoot us a few gray area example so we know what sort of things to avoid? Thanks
 
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