All examinees of DPE Edward L. Lane to be required to re-test

So does anyone know why? That would suck!
 
huh - the letter says the 709 ride will "... consist of a complete practical test as set forth in the appropriate practical test standard (PTS) for the applicable certificate or rating."

Sounds like the DPE was not eligible to be giving the tests between 2009 - 2011. He must have had some paperwork problems. I wonder what the deal was, too?
 
So who's paying for all of these 709 rides? I'd be ****ed if I got such a letter…
 
Not eligible and it took the government two years to figure it out?
 
I was thinking about trying to pass a practical test again. I spent a lot of time prepping for it then. I'm sure there are things on the PTS that I would consider "no brainers" now, but I'd be pretty paranoid about messing up something that I could do well then, but am out of practice on now.
 
Let's say you are ready to take a practical exam for your next rating, could you take that test as the required ride in this notice?
 
Are all the pilot's licenses immediately suspended? I see that they have 30 days to respond, but I cannot find whether they must immediately stop flying.
 
WOW! What a situation!

I'm certainly no lawyer, but since the FAA DESIGNATED him as a legitimate examiner, don't they have some responsibility in the issue?

It would seem fair, if they did all the retests with FAA examiners at no cost. Of course, even with no examiner fee, for many people this would represent a large sum of money. I'm not sure, but I expect that most people don't have their own plane, so that means renting a plane for the exam and maybe even renting it to prepare for the exam.

With the tough old curmudgeon of a DPE I had, I can't imagine ever having to be faced with this situation. If I did, I think I could practice a few things and then do good in the air, but it would probably take some study to get ready for the oral again.

Bad situation!
 
The way to get the FAAs attention would be to over load the system, the DPE would be operating in one FSDO, all the pilots effected should make appointments with that FSDO's examiners. when the appointment list get too long fire off letters of hardships, and undue delays. yada yada :)
 
Tom-D said:
The way to get the FAAs attention would be to over load the system, the DPE would be operating in one FSDO, all the pilots effected should make appointments with that FSDO's examiners. when the appointment list get too long fire off letters of hardships, and undue delays. yada yada :)
Click to expand...

Do you think the bureaucrats in the FAA would care?
 
Wonder why they will not accept a BFR as the equivalent? Seems it should be OK but reading the letter it is pretty specific about a retest and they make the rules.

Cheers
 
Is this, by any chance, another example of pencil-whipped practical exams? It seems this has happened before.
 
Tom-D said:
Let's say you are ready to take a practical exam for your next rating, could you take that test as the required ride in this notice?
Click to expand...

The notice says "If it is subsequently determined that an airman has been tested for an additional pilot certificate or rating with satisfactory results after the last test administered by DPE Lane, the reexamination letter will be rescinded. The letter will also be rescinded in the case of a current military pilot in command (PIC) submitting evidence of satisfactory completion of a military proficiency check subsequent to the test conducted by DPE Lane."
 
MBDiagMan said:
It would seem fair, if they did all the retests with FAA examiners at no cost. Of course, even with no examiner fee, for many people this would represent a large sum of money. I'm not sure, but I expect that most people don't have their own plane, so that means renting a plane for the exam and maybe even renting it to prepare for the exam.
Click to expand...

Does the FAA ever charge for 44709 rides? I would doubt it. As for the other costs, if the problem DPE has any assets, maybe one could take him to small claims court.
 
I guess most of you are aware of all I went through to get my PPSL, I wrote enough about it. You are probably aware of all the time and money I spent, being pretty much screwed over from the get go from the first day I stepped into a "learn to fly here" FBO.

Then on the annual my plane is going through now, a problem with the wing that is going to wipe out what little money I have left over a one inch long crack in one of the corrugated panels in my wing walk.

Looking over all of this, when my only goal was to get a pilots certificate before I died, my bucket list as it were. I spent over a hundred thousand dollars including the $47,000.00 dollar airplane, that I put over $15,000.00 in repairs in the five years I've owned it, that now people think $27,000.00 is too much for me to ask for it, without ever seeing it or flying it.

So this about sums up the final screwing GA has delivered to me, the "coup de grâce" as it were.

Try to guess who my DPE was on 9-18-2010?????? Anyone????

-John
 
Wow this took off fast.
He was a DPE until they pulled his DPE in November 2011.
Nobodys ticket has been suspended yet or affected in any way yet. Even Eddie is still flying and a dam good CFI. (just no longer a DPE)

The local scuttlebutt is he was investigated for having too many passes, and that the investigation determined that he was taking short cuts on his practical test.
The number on the ramp is that over 500 pilots received letters.
2 friends of mine did.
one for his II and one for a twin.

I have flown and been to several FAAST classes that Eddie has given. he is one of the most knowledgeable pilots and CFIs I have ever met.

This is a serious matter and very upsetting for those of us involved. Please be courteous with your speculations and commits.

Thanks,
Mike
 
Palmpilot said:
Does the FAA ever charge for 44709 rides? I would doubt it. As for the other costs, if the problem DPE has any assets, maybe one could take him to small claims court.
Click to expand...

The FAA Examiners cannot charge for their services. They are paid by taxpayer dollars. But you'll have expenses to rent a plane and other preparations for the ride.
 
John Baker said:
I guess most of you are aware of all I went through to get my PPSL, I wrote enough about it. You are probably aware of all the time and money I spent, being pretty much screwed over from the get go from the first day I stepped into a "learn to fly here" FBO.

Then on the annual my plane is going through now, a problem with the wing that is going to wipe out what little money I have left over a one inch long crack in one of the corrugated panels in my wing walk.

Looking over all of this, when my only goal was to get a pilots certificate before I died, my bucket list as it were. I spent over a hundred thousand dollars including the $47,000.00 dollar airplane, that I put over $15,000.00 in repairs in the five years I've owned it, that now people think $27,000.00 is too much for me to ask for it, without ever seeing it or flying it.

So this about sums up the final screwing GA has delivered to me, the "coup de grâce" as it were.

Try to guess who my DPE was on 9-18-2010?????? Anyone????

-John
Click to expand...

I feel bad for you, John, but believe me, the light at the end of the tunnel is not necessarily a train.

As tough as it's been on you in this process, its important not to accept a sentence not yet given. I would think that people who have to worry are the ones who bought their checkrides. They will be either proven incompetent to fly, or, if they were/are committed, they should pass with no issue. There's probably grounds for some legal action by all affected for at the very least money spent with the gentleman in question. That's the FAA's fault, not yours.
 
John,
I'm sorry to hear about your GA experience.
Do you mind if I ask how your check ride went? Do you think Eddie did a good job? Do you think he passed you and you didn't deserve it?

PM me if you would rather

Just curious
Mike
 
John Baker said:
Try to guess who my DPE was on 9-18-2010?????? Anyone????
Click to expand...

Sad news John. It'd be tough to take the 709 ride when you know you've followed procedure to complete all steps for the PPC. Not your fault at all that a DPE's performance has been called into question and all certs questioned.

I hope you find a way to take the ride.
 
LandSickness said:
There's probably grounds for some legal action by all affected for at the very least money spent with the gentleman in question. That's the FAA's fault, not yours.
Click to expand...

First off, I feel bad for him, too. But I wouldn't count on any legal action against the federal government. I haven't looked closely, but I suspect any such claim would be subject to governmental immunity.

You might have a claim against the DPE, I don't know. But if so, you probably will be standing in line with your hand out with a lot of others. As they say, you can't squeeze blood from a stone.
 
I was pretty much done with flying anyway. I know I will not go through the time and expense of another check ride. I'll be 70 December 9. It is just frustrating that after all that, nothing. 425+ hours and I'm not qualified to fly anything but kite on a string.

-John
 
PPC1052 said:
First off, I feel bad for him, too. But I wouldn't count on any legal action against the federal government. I haven't looked closely, but I suspect any such claim would be subject to governmental immunity.

You might have a claim against the DPE, I don't know. But if so, you probably will be standing in line with your hand out with a lot of others. As they say, you can't squeeze blood from a stone.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying anyone's going to get a cash settlement or punitive damages as a result of this action. All I'm saying is, it shouldn't cost the "victims" anything to right a wrong. They can offer vouchers(or some other form of government mystery money) to the checkride takers to fix this and it shouldn't cost the pilots anything but time and a little anxiety.
 
Mike_Flys said:
John,
I'm sorry to hear about your GA experience.
Do you mind if I ask how your check ride went? Do you think Eddie did a good job? Do you think he passed you and you didn't deserve it?

PM me if you would rather

Just curious
Mike
Click to expand...

I thought Eddy did a pretty thorough job. Ground portion and air portion. He covered all of it, as far as I could tell. He definitely did not award me anything I had not earned. It was a whole afternoon, from about eleven in the morning until after five that evening.

The only thing he did that surprised me, was after he signed me off, he told me I had given him the best check ride he had in years. He said I really knew my stuff and had prepared well for it.

-John
 
John,
over 400 hours? did you get any other ratings? Dont you think you should at least contact the FSDO and see what they say?

I have not been able to contact anyone at the FSDO yet.
So far I have just left a message.
I'm not 2 worried about my flying but definitely need to study up for the Oral.

I wish I could take a check ride for a different rating instead of retaking one I have already done.

Mike
 
Tom-D said:
The way to get the FAAs attention would be to over load the system, the DPE would be operating in one FSDO, all the pilots effected should make appointments with that FSDO's examiners. when the appointment list get too long fire off letters of hardships, and undue delays. yada yada :)
Click to expand...
You're making the assumption that, in a situation where the FAA knows that there are potentially hundreds of pilots involved, it would have a team of inspectors (and maybe even Designees) from all across the country on call.

3 Skier said:
Re: All examinees of DPE Edward L. Lane to be required to re-test
Wonder why they will not accept a BFR as the equivalent? Seems it should be OK but reading the letter it is pretty specific about a retest and they make the rules.
Click to expand...
These are practical tests being called into question. Not flight reviews. CFIs give flight reviews not practical tests.
 
John Baker said:
I thought Eddy did a pretty thorough job. Ground portion and air portion. He covered all of it, as far as I could tell. He definitely did not award me anything I had not earned. It was a whole afternoon, from about eleven in the morning until after five that evening.

The only thing he did that surprised me, was after he signed me off, he told me I had given him the best check ride he had in years. He said I really knew my stuff and had prepared well for it.

-John
Click to expand...

I feel the same way about my check ride.
He gave me a good check thorough practical test and I earned my ticket.

When I first got my letter I was very upset, and while I basically still am I'm not going to just give up flying. So if I have to check ride again to make the FAA happy I will.
I just wish they (FSDO) would answer their phone.

Maybe there will be some info tonight at the FAAST meeting at VGT

Mike
 
John Baker said:
I guess most of you are aware of all I went through to get my PPSL, I wrote enough about it. You are probably aware of all the time and money I spent, being pretty much screwed over from the get go from the first day I stepped into a "learn to fly here" FBO.

Then on the annual my plane is going through now, a problem with the wing that is going to wipe out what little money I have left over a one inch long crack in one of the corrugated panels in my wing walk.

Looking over all of this, when my only goal was to get a pilots certificate before I died, my bucket list as it were. I spent over a hundred thousand dollars including the $47,000.00 dollar airplane, that I put over $15,000.00 in repairs in the five years I've owned it, that now people think $27,000.00 is too much for me to ask for it, without ever seeing it or flying it.

So this about sums up the final screwing GA has delivered to me, the "coup de grâce" as it were.

Try to guess who my DPE was on 9-18-2010?????? Anyone????

-John
Click to expand...

Oh, geez John... I've followed your saga on this board the whole way and (amazingly, despite all of the other BS you've been through) this absolutely takes the cake. :banghead:
 
This is very sad. Sad obviously for the people who worked hard for their tickets, and now need to go through the process again (with associated costs both financial and emotional). I also feel sorry for Edward Lane. I don't know him, but he certainly seems competent from his videos and from testimonials. Let's just hope that the FAA has a very good reason to make all the parties involved go through this ordeal.

John, I am really sorry this happened to you. Even if you decide to not get reexamined, you should take pride in knowing that you did everything properly and that you fulfilled your dream and flew over 425 hours doing just that.
 
Tom-D said:
Let's say you are ready to take a practical exam for your next rating, could you take that test as the required ride in this notice?
Click to expand...

If so, that may be the smart thing to do for pilots considering a career in aviation, particularly the airlines. A guy applying to the airlines mentioned that his application asked if he'd ever been required to take a 709 ride. The implication being that the pilot did something wrong to earn the ride. Anyone who has to check 'yes' is at a disadvantage for hiring. Sure you can explain that in this case it wasn't your fault. But are you even going to get the chance? All things being equal, an employer's going to interview the guy without a past 709 ride.

Even running out to do a sea plane rating or something might be worth the additional expense if it avoids that problem.
 
I am aware of another situation in which a DPE's ticket was revoked. His pass/fail ratio was well within norms, but he was accused of passing an applicant without administering the flight portion of the exam. The evidence submitted by the Fed included an assertion that since the applicant's name did not appear on the rental sheet at the FBO, the applicant could not have been in the plane.

The undisputed testimony by all concerned was that the applicant was not at the flight school when the he and the DPE agreed on the time for the checkride. To assure the plane would be available, the applicant contacted a friend and fellow student who was at the facility and asked him to make the reservation on the calendar. The other student simply wrote his own name in the time block, under the assumption that the name on the book was of absolutely no consequence and the FBO didn't care whose name was entered there so long as 1. the plane was properly used by a qualified and approved pilot, and
2. the check cleared.

I observed the DPE in many situations in which it would have been expedient to look the other way regarding check rides, and heard him tell the applicants "if we're going to do this, we're going to do it right."

The DPE's stated goal was to win reinstatement of his ticket, clear his record and then tell them to shove it.
 
Mike_Flys said:
I feel the same way about my check ride.
He gave me a good check thorough practical test and I earned my ticket.

When I first got my letter I was very upset, and while I basically still am I'm not going to just give up flying. So if I have to check ride again to make the FAA happy I will.
I just wish they (FSDO) would answer their phone.

Maybe there will be some info tonight at the FAAST meeting at VGT

Mike
Click to expand...

Well, if nothing else, we're members of a very big club now. The Chinese will probably be taking over in the next few years anyway, I doubt if they will let the help fly airplanes.

-John
 
John Baker said:
I was pretty much done with flying anyway. I know I will not go through the time and expense of another check ride. I'll be 70 December 9. It is just frustrating that after all that, nothing. 425+ hours and I'm not qualified to fly anything but kite on a string.
Click to expand...
You can fly a part 103 kite without a string. Not going to be a cross-country travelling powerhouse like your Cherokee, but in reality airlines finished that decades ago anyway.
 
Mike_Flys said:
John,
over 400 hours? did you get any other ratings? Dont you think you should at least contact the FSDO and see what they say?

I have not been able to contact anyone at the FSDO yet.
So far I have just left a message.
I'm not 2 worried about my flying but definitely need to study up for the Oral.

I wish I could take a check ride for a different rating instead of retaking one I have already done.

Mike
Click to expand...
Don't rule out the possibility that you might be able to.

I don't think anyone has said it yet: Get an aviation attorney. If you are an AOPA/LSP member, take advantage of it. If you are not, see if you can get a referral. If you are an AOPA member but not signed up for the LSP, the list of LSP attorneys is still available. I would be very surprised if the small group of Plan attorneys in Vegas are not receiving multiple calls as well as Plan attorneys in neighboring states.

It's not that the FAA is going to be frightened. That's not what legal representation is for. It's to provide advice and negotiate as your objective representative in a system that he or she understands.
 
wabower said:
I am aware of another situation in which a DPE's ticket was revoked. His pass/fail ratio was well within norms, but he was accused of passing an applicant without administering the flight portion of the exam. The evidence submitted by the Fed included an assertion that since the applicant's name did not appear on the rental sheet at the FBO, the applicant could not have been in the plane.

The undisputed testimony by all concerned was that the applicant was not at the flight school when the he and the DPE agreed on the time for the checkride. To assure the plane would be available, the applicant contacted a friend and fellow student who was at the facility and asked him to make the reservation on the calendar. The other student simply wrote his own name in the time block, under the assumption that the name on the book was of absolutely no consequence and the FBO didn't care whose name was entered there so long as 1. the plane was properly used by a qualified and approved pilot, and
2. the check cleared.

I observed the DPE in many situations in which it would have been expedient to look the other way regarding check rides, and heard him tell the applicants "if we're going to do this, we're going to do it right."

The DPE's stated goal was to win reinstatement of his ticket, clear his record and then tell them to shove it.
Click to expand...


I know a DPE who went through a very similar situation and got his ticket revoked. An MEI friend of mine was 10/10 on his multi-engine signoffs had to redo his MEI ride with an FAA Inspector. All told, it was a non-event. He called the FSDO, made the appointment and took the checkride. Obviously, he was already proficient, so he was only out the money for aircraft rental.

I heard the Vegas FSDO is one of the more lenient ones, so hopefully no one gets Inspector Ball Buster when they take their ride.
 
We're from the FAA.........we're here to help.........

Well in this case, people did the right thing and now they got screwed.
 
n20junkie said:
We're from the FAA.........we're here to help.........

Well in this case, people did the right thing and now they got screwed.
Click to expand...

Understatement in John's case in particular...
 
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