All 6Y9 Fly-Ins cancelled indefinitely

[el con]

For those still wanting to come:
I'm not going to do my annual "safety at 6Y9 briefing" but will say this about the runway's.
We will not be able to use 600ft on the east end (28) for take offs, for landings on (28) there will be about 700ft. of open space (former 600ft.of runway + 100ft from the road and trees. There was a 400ft. displaced threshold on (28) there will not be a displaced threshold now.
From the west (10) your touchdown point will be the same as it has been ,a 400ft. displaced threshold but now you will only have 1600 ft. to stop from that point. On takeoff from (10) you will have the full 2000 ft. + the 700ft . to fly over. You will need to be airborne and should be way before the end of (10),but it is no different than it was in the past, unless you abort takeoff and need to stop.
Any questions , contact me.

 

[wsuffa]

God's honest truth, you darned near made me cry there, Mr. Frederick. My hat is off to you!

Likewise. I'd been thinking about helocopter training....

 

[tmyers]

FTFY. :wink2:

Appreciate it, need all the help I can get!!!!

Just thought I would peruse the take off and landing performance charts for the Arrow, with 6Y9 in mind.

Someone needs to put that stuff into an ap.

 

[el con]

God's honest truth, you darned near made me cry there, Mr. Frederick. My hat is off to you!

Thanks Spike-----but Mr.Frederick??? That sounds soooo old.
Mr.Frederick was my Dad:wink2:

 

[CJones]

Glad to hear there are options, Brad. Hope things work out for the best - I still plan to take you up on that Brookie trip sometime.

 

[ron22]

I have only been there once a few years ago. So I do not remember the layout the best. I will take Ed and Jesse word on the height of the trees on the end.
I do sadly agree with Ed on canceling Public fly ins. Yes pilots should know what they can and cannot do. I personally would not want to be there and watch a pilot eat the trees.
I hope something can be worked out on either end of the runway.

 

[tmyers]

For those still wanting to come:
I'm not going to do my annual "safety at 6Y9 briefing" but will say this about the runway's.
We will not be able to use 600ft on the east end (28) for take offs, for landings on (28) there will be about 700ft. of open space (former 600ft.of runway + 100ft from the road and trees. There was a 400ft. displaced threshold on (28) there will not be a displaced threshold now.
From the west (10) your touchdown point will be the same as it has been ,a 400ft. displaced threshold but now you will only have 1600 ft. to stop from that point. On takeoff from (10) you will have the full 2000 ft. + the 700ft . to fly over. You will need to be airborne and should be way before the end of (10),but it is no different than it was in the past, unless you abort takeoff and need to stop.
Any questions , contact me.

I took a few minutes and annotated a satellite image of the field. Is this an accurate representation fo the changes Brad?

 

[ron22]

I am probably the only one that is going to defend Mr Poopy Pants. We do not know his side of the story. Maybe the airport came up when he was talking to his lawyer. The lawyer told him the story about the 3mil a year Dr crashing on his land. Then the scumbag lawyers suing HIM since that is were the money is.
So I can understand the liability part. If I was Mr Poopy Pants I would sell that part of my land to the airport for a price they could afford $1.00. This would dissolve my liability so I would be happy. But I am a pilot not a rich land owner.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Is it going to shut down? Seems like a neat place and 1500 is doable for me, especially if I keep her light

1500 of runway is only half the story. There are TALL trees at the west end. If we can fly over the East end still I'd still go, but this will turn it into a one-way-out strip for most of us. Probably my scariest takeoff ever was one of my departures from 6y9 the first year... And I've had the 182 in and out of an 1100' strip. 1500' is not enough to get a 182 out of with the obstructions that are present.

 

[weilke]

So I can understand the liability part. If I was Mr Poopy Pants I would sell that part of my land to the airport for a price they could afford $1.00. This would dissolve my liability so I would be happy. But I am a pilot not a rich land owner.

Why would you want to sell land that you own for any less than what it is worth ? Now I doubt that anyone is itching to put up subdivisions up there, but giving it away for free ?

Who knows, maybe there is some opportunity to do a land-swap.

The liability concerns are real, particularly if as described, the airport has issues with obstacle planes.

 

[el con]

I took a few minutes and annotated a satellite image of the field. Is this an accurate representation fo the changes Brad?

Yes it is.

 

[el con]

Why would you want to sell land that you own for any less than what it is worth ? Now I doubt that anyone is itching to put up subdivisions up there, but giving it away for free ?

Who knows, maybe there is some opportunity to do a land-swap.

The liability concerns are real, particularly if as described, the airport has issues with obstacle planes.

We have offered to buy the land that the runway was on.
There was 31.7 acres total that he bought for 32k.
He put up a nice commercial building on the front half with road frontage for 100k or maybe more.
The runway roughly splits the property in half the runway is good but the back half is swamp. The front half with the building is high dry and sandy.
I'm checking to see want he wants for the whole thing as he said he does not want to split it to sell.
He has roughly half the money as God so he really doesn't care if he sells it or not.
We are a 501(c)3 corp. I and asked if he would do a 100% tax free donation. At this time -Negative on that. On the back half that is.

 

[ron22]

Why would you want to sell land that you own for any less than what it is worth ? Now I doubt that anyone is itching to put up subdivisions up there, but giving it away for free ?

Because I am a pilot and want to see an airport saved
I would not expect the neighbor to give it away. I also do not l know how much land he has. If he has 100acres then this is a drop in the bucket if he only has 1 acre well.....
Edited
Ok I see size and property layout was posted as I typing this. If it will cut his property in half I see why he does not sell it.

 

[azure]

I just saw this and am crestfallen to hear it. I was gonna make it this year for sure.

And yeah, Ed is right, "I forgot something in my plane" is the showstopper for a pickup 45 minutes away.

I'm still a little confused though. If there are still 2000 feet of runway left, why are people saying things like "1500 feet is not enough in a 182"?

For me it doesn't matter, even 2000 feet would be too close for comfort in a Cardinal RG with tall trees to clear. It's a nice stable plane in cruise, but definitely underpowered.

I really hope something can be worked out.

 

[el con]

I am probably the only one that is going to defend Mr Poopy Pants. We do not know his side of the story. Maybe the airport came up when he was talking to his lawyer. The lawyer told him the story about the 3mil a year Dr crashing on his land. Then the scumbag lawyers suing HIM since that is were the money is.
So I can understand the liability part. If I was Mr Poopy Pants I would sell that part of my land to the airport for a price they could afford $1.00. This would dissolve my liability so I would be happy. But I am a pilot not a rich land owner.

He has no liability with the runway removed ,which we are in the process of doing.

 

[Gary]

He has no liability with the runway removed ,which we are in the process of doing.

This is so sad... You, Ed and Diz have put so much time, effort and dollars into a wonderful situation, only to have it all disrupted. I'll have to assume from the part above, that another solution to the problem wasn't available, really a shame.

Gary

 

[Skylane81E]

1500 of runway is only half the story. There are TALL trees at the west end. If we can fly over the East end still I'd still go, but this will turn it into a one-way-out strip for most of us. Probably my scariest takeoff ever was one of my departures from 6y9 the first year... And I've had the 182 in and out of an 1100' strip. 1500' is not enough to get a 182 out of with the obstructions that are present.

FWIW I just ran the numbers, 2800lbs 20c and 1000msl

1500 would have me at 50' if I was on my game, with a ground roll of about 830' or so.

Yeah I'd likely want to take off to the east to add some safety margin, but if there is truly 2000ft to the trees they would have to be VERY tall to make a take off to the west an absolute no.

2800lbs would be a rather heavy load, as even with a passenger I'd likely be closer to 2500, where less than 1100 are needed to clear a 50' obstacle. You just have to deal with the exciting climb that results from flaps 20 and 53kts :wink2:

 

[weilke]

Because I am a pilot and want to see an airport saved
I would not expect the neighbor to give it away. I also do not l know how much land he has. If he has 100acres then this is a drop in the bucket if he only has 1 acre well.....

Right, that is if YOU were the owner of that parcel, I dont think the owner is an aircraft owner.

How much is an acre of cleared ag land in this area ? Someone with a couple of $$ to spare could of course buy it from him, isolate the liability through trusts and corporate structures and lease the land to the airport for $1.

The videos on the 6Y9 website show a PA28-180 Not a field for a loaded SR20, but a lightly loaded 182 shouldn't be a problem.

 

[timwinters]

Did you add 25% for grass, Dunc?

 

[CJones]

How much is an acre of cleared ag land in this area ?

Pull up a Google Maps shot of the area and you'll see that cleared ag land is squat up there. It's all timber country up there.

I have faith that Brad can work some magic to get something moving. That is a pretty tight community up there and the Fred's seem to have a lot of history in the area. Sometimes history and the 'neighborly thing to do' trumps $$$ to be made.... somtimes.

 

[Skylane81E]

Did you add 25% for grass, Dunc?

POH stated 15% to the ground roll, so yes. Even given less than perfect technique and some extra on the ground roll seeing as the book numbers at my likely weight give almost 1000ft of wiggle room from the 2000ft distance available I'd feel comfortable even without the extra 600' of runway.

 

[CJones]

FWIW I just ran the numbers, 2800lbs 20c and 1000msl

1500 would have me at 50' if I was on my game, with a ground roll of about 830' or so.

Yeah I'd likely want to take off to the east to add some safety margin, but if there is truly 2000ft to the trees they would have to be VERY tall to make a take off to the west an absolute no.

2800lbs would be a rather heavy load, as even with a passenger I'd likely be closer to 2500, where less than 1100 are needed to clear a 50' obstacle. You just have to deal with the exciting climb that results from flaps 20 and 53kts :wink2:

Tony and I had a 182RG in and out of there a few years ago. All four seats occupied, two tents, 4 bag chairs, and 'gear' for 4 people for the long weekend. It was a little 'snug' getting out of there to the west with the full-length available.

I would get the RV-7A in and out of there without any problem, but I don't know if I would take the -10 into the shortened strip - mostly b/c I just haven't flown the -10 as much as I have the -7.

 

[Skylane81E]

Tony and I had a 182RG in and out of there a few years ago. All four seats occupied, two tents, 4 bag chairs, and 'gear' for 4 people for the long weekend. It was a little 'snug' getting out of there to the west with the full-length available.

I would get the RV-7A in and out of there without any problem, but I don't know if I would take the -10 into the shortened strip - mostly b/c I just haven't flown the -10 as much as I have the -7.

Yep, I wouldn't want to do it full given the new distance available. The plane would do it as it would only take 1700' to reach 50' at gross, but that is cutting it too close for me. Reality is if I topped the tanks on departure here I would be landing there at a trim 2,352lbs even with 50lbs of baggage.


BTW, landing distance is 1605 over a 50' obstacle even at max landing weight (the only weight given in the POH)

 

[tonycondon]

Tony and I had a 182RG in and out of there a few years ago. All four seats occupied, two tents, 4 bag chairs, and 'gear' for 4 people for the long weekend. It was a little 'snug' getting out of there to the west with the full-length available.

I would get the RV-7A in and out of there without any problem, but I don't know if I would take the -10 into the shortened strip - mostly b/c I just haven't flown the -10 as much as I have the -7.

we took off to the east, and i think you and I were pretty happy for that.

When I had the 7ECA Citabria up there I welcomed the 20+ knot wind for my westerly departure.

 

[CJones]

we took off to the east, and i think you and I were pretty happy for that.

When I had the 7ECA Citabria up there I welcomed the 20+ knot wind for my westerly departure.

Ahhh.. That's right.. We landed to the west, which was interesting when I had the bright idea to raise flaps to get weight on the gear just as we hit the small hump in the middle of the runway. Weeeeee..

 

[SkyHog]

Any chance of grabbing a chain saw and making the approach path a bit less obstructed (read: shorter trees) to make it a bit easier getting in and out?

Maybe the other land owner would even permit it on his property.

 

[weilke]

Any chance of grabbing a chain saw and making the approach path a bit less obstructed (read: shorter trees) to make it a bit easier getting in and out?

That or 'Round-up brush-killer' liberally applied liberally into some small bore-holes that have magically apperared in the base of the tree.

 

[timwinters]

I seem to recall the power lines being a bigger issue than the trees but I fly a pretty steep power off approach.

 

[Clip4]

Adam, from the good new post, obviously the land owners attorney thought there was an adverse possession issue.

Best advice so far.



If the owner let them do it then there is no adverse possession.

Look for all you bone headly bashing lawyers with all due respect you have no clue how this came about. Fact is there may be some liability on the neighbor's head and if an attorney knew about it he or she would be remiss to not to point it out to the client.

That said. This post pains me greatly. 6Y9er holds a close to magical place in my heart. So rather than ***** about it lets find a solution. I have some Ideas and Comanche Pilot is thinking like the kind of attorney I like to work with. I can guarantee that Spike will throw his noggin into gear as well. I'd like to propose a conference call with you, Brad and Diz, myself, Spike and Comanche Pilot if he is inclined. There may be a simple solution to this issue. So before you go posting attorneys phone numbers lets try to work this out. If you and your folks are up for it, please call and I'll set it up.

 

[weilke]

Maybe someone with magic moderator powers could change the title to reflect that the fly-in is NOT cancelled.