Alaska couple committed suicide by plane, investigators say

The NTSB is charged with determining things like equipment failure, pilot failure, weather influence, etc. In this case none apply, and that's important, too. No weather issue, no equipment failure, no "pilot's failure to maintain control". This flight ended the way the pilot intended. That's as clear as it gets. If you want to learn something about the NTSB and how they investigate and summarize? Go visit the NTSB and find out. I've done just that when I lost two pilot friends in two separate accidents. After the reports were released the NTSB investigators were very candid about the investigations and they knew I was emotionally invested. They've earned my respect.
 
James331 said:
The ME's report was noted as blunt force trauma, but there was nothing stating why this wasn't a CFIT, a botched stall practice, or... it said blunt force trauma, which is the cause of death in like most every aircraft crash.
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The NTSB report said, "Postaccident examination of the wreckage revealed no mechanical malfunctions or anomalies that would have precluded normal operation." If they had found evidence to contradict the medical examiner's conclusion, wouldn't they would have included it in the report?

EXACTLY!!!

Which is the whole point of the NTSB going through all the facts and coming to a INDEPENDENT conclusion based on said facts, I mean why bother even sending the NTSB, coulda saved some tax payer money if they just copy pasted the ME's report.
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I don't think the post-accident examination of the wreckage, and their determination that no evidence of mechanical malfunctions or anomalies was found, were a waste of taxpayer money.

It seems to me that determining whether a person was likely to have been suicidal is outside the NTSB's area of expertise. It's not outside a medical examiner's area of expertise.

Are you saying that the NTSB should disregard the opinions of credible outside experts?
 
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BigBadLou said:
This is the joke of an NTSB report: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...ID=20161216X23127&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA

I am really starting to dislike the NKOTB at the NTSB office. Their desire to close unclear cases with unknown circumstances and no possible conclusions is so high that they just make up any BS they feel is plausible and present it as facts and evidence. If this MO ever makes it to criminal courts, god help us, we all will end up in jail for no apparent reason.
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Not trying to defend anybody but state medical examiners office concluded that it was a suicide not NTSB.
 
But two people died. I can see the NSTB concluding the pilot committed suicide based on the medical examiner's report But did the medical examiner also conclude the passenger committed suicide? Or was it suicide-murder?
 
tinerj said:
But two people died. I can see the NSTB concluding the pilot committed suicide based on the medical examiner's report But did the medical examiner also conclude the passenger committed suicide? Or was it suicide-murder?
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That would be a question for the ME or law enforcement. The NTSB is likely unconcerned since it doesn't affect the probable cause of the crash.
 
tinerj said:
But two people died. I can see the NSTB concluding the pilot committed suicide based on the medical examiner's report But did the medical examiner also conclude the passenger committed suicide? Or was it suicide-murder?
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The state police ruled her death as manslaughter and the pilot as suicide. It's in the NTSB report.

Again, state police don't generally go throwing those determinations around haphazardly.
 
tinerj said:
But two people died. I can see the NSTB concluding the pilot committed suicide based on the medical examiner's report But did the medical examiner also conclude the passenger committed suicide? Or was it suicide-murder?
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The Alaska state troopers concluded that the passenger died through manslaughter in violation of AS11.41.120(a)(2). That is the Alaska statute that prohibits one from assisting another person in committing suicide.
The case was closed through death of the suspect. The NTSB included the cover page of the police report which is labeled as 'page 1 of 13'. The narrative and whatever evidence they found is on the remaining 12 pages.
 
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James331 said:
The ME's report was noted as blunt force trauma, but there was nothing stating why this wasn't a CFIT, a botched stall practice, or... it said blunt force trauma, which is the cause of death in like most every aircraft crash.
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You are confusing the cause of death with the manner of death. They are two separate determinations.
 
weilke said:
The Alaska state troopers concluded that the passenger died through manslaughter in violation of AS11.41.120(a)(2). That is the Alaska statute that prohibits one from assisting another person in committing suicide. . . .
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That makes sense. I did a search for more info but could only find the original story endlessly repeated.
 
Because of privacy laws, we don't release detailed versions of traffic collision reports to anybody except interested parties such as those actually involved in the crash, vehicle owners, insurance companies, etc. The information released to the public is very watered down. Sometimes you just have to trust that thorough investigations are being completed and documented.


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Kevin16587 said:
Because of privacy laws, we don't release detailed versions of traffic collision reports to anybody except interested parties such as those actually involved in the crash, vehicle owners, insurance companies, etc. The information released to the public is very watered down. Sometimes you just have to trust that thorough investigations are being completed and documented.


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And if it bugs people that much, they can always go through the FOIA process.
 
Stewartb said:
That some guys will go on and on about something they clearly know nothing about certainly makes me wonder about their comments on other topics. Well, not really. The FOS guys are easy to spot. But hey, go to the zoo and you can predict that if you watch for long enough the zoo monkeys will fling crap, but some people still watch. This thread has at least one zoo monkey. I don't have much use for monkees.
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I laughed when I read this but I'll have to explain why.

Good friend of mine one day when I was complaining about buying $20 worth of parts plus spares for some project because I knew the part would fail and was going to become hard to come by, soon. (Esoteric electronic parts around the time of the RoHS ban on lead in electronics manufacturing, so the non-RoHS part was about to become "unobtanium"...)


He just looks at me and says, "Just buy three of them and shut up. I know people who would pay $100 to watch a monkey **** a football!"

Maybe you had to be there, but it made us both break out laughing and I ordered three of the part on my smartphone while I was standing there in his garage. I ended up using one to repair the thing originally, one of the two spares later on, and giving the third to a grateful new owner of the electronic device that likes to eat them, when he bought it from me.

But yes. People will pay good money to watch a monkey do that. Thus, threads like this one. :)
 
The NTSB's job is to look into safety issues. If someone intentionally crashes a plane then there isn't much for the NTSB to investigate. There's likely a lot of evidence that went into the suicide determination but it's beyond the purview of the NTSB so they simply say it was intentional and leave it at that.
 
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