Airliners and Icing/deicing

Kritchlow said:
Yup... I flew for the “commuters” back when they operated under part 135. “One level of safety” was still years down the road.
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Yep, Part 135 let the Company fly us 1200 hours a year, and they scheduled you close to it every year. I went over 1000 a few times when I flew the Brasilia. 8 leg days....ahh good times.
 
mscard88 said:
They had Saab 340s, same engines as BRASILIA. ASA was the launch customer for the Brasilia; COMAIR, SKYWEST, Continental Express, and TransStates (TWA) were the others that flew them. Might have been others.
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I flew them for AirMidwest. These became the TransStates airplanes after the buyout.
 
Oh the kicker was most trips were scheduled for reduced time, 8 hours on the ground, which included transportation time. Lucky if you got 5-6 hours sleep. Yeah one level of safety lol.
 
LDJones said:
NWA had Brasilias? I didn't recall that. Interesting. The Saabs are all I recalled. The "Bro" is talked about fondly by many of the Captains I flew with who started out on it at SkyWest.
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Someone else flew them for NW off the backside of the B concourse. Skywest or Wisconsin.
 
mscard88 said:
They had Saab 340s, same engines as BRASILIA. ASA was the launch customer for the Brasilia; COMAIR, SKYWEST, Continental Express, and TransStates (TWA) were the others that flew them. Might have been others.
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Actually, the Saab 340 has GE CT7-9B (like a Blackhawk helicopter) and the Brasilia has PW 118.
 
The green goop is designed to shear off at about rotation speed but some does hide in cracks and crevices on the plane, hence what you see dripping and oozing after a flight. Something not discussed here is the fact that it is designed to shear off....good....bad is the fact that it all shears off approximately at the same area of the runway....why bad? This is the area where you are trying to get max braking in a rejected landing. Yes, I have and it can be slicker than greased owl snot!
 
MD11Pilot said:
The green goop is designed to shear off at about rotation speed but some does hide in cracks and crevices on the plane, hence what you see dripping and oozing after a flight. Something not discussed here is the fact that it is designed to shear off....good....bad is the fact that it all shears off approximately at the same area of the runway....why bad? This is the area where you are trying to get max braking in a rejected landing. Yes, I have and it can be slicker than greased owl snot!
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Dim der MD-11s be mighty weird. Must be using air brakes on does rejected landings...
 
Takeoff in freezing rain is generally prohibited regardless of the type fluid used.
 
LDJones said:
Interesting. I've never seen anything like that. All our outstations have bucket trucks now.
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mscard88 said:
Yep, Part 135 let the Company fly us 1200 hours a year, and they scheduled you close to it every year. I went over 1000 a few times when I flew the Brasilia. 8 leg days....ahh good times.
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Didn’t know you could fly the Brasilia 135. I thought anything over 19 passenger seats had to be 121.
 
We were commuters then. Different times I guess.

FAR 135.2:
(a) Applicability. This section applies to the following:
(1) Each certificate holder that was issued an air carrier or operating certificate and operations specifications under the requirements of part 135 of this chapter or under SFAR No. 38–2 of 14 CFR part 121 before January 19, 1996, and that conducts scheduled passenger-carrying operations with:
(i) Nontransport category turbopropeller powered airplanes type certificated after December 31, 1964, that have a passenger seat configuration of 10–19 seats;
(ii) Transport category turbopropeller powered airplanes that have a passenger seat configuration of 20–30 seats; or
(iii) Turbojet engine powered airplanes having a passenger seat configuration of 1–30 seats.

FAR 135.2 then says:

"(b) Obtaining operations specifications. A certificate holder described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section may not, after March 20, 1997, operate an airplane described in paragraphs (a)(1)(i), (a)(1)(ii), or (a)(1)(iii) of this section in scheduled passenger-carrying operations, unless it obtains operations specifications to conduct its scheduled operations under part 121 of this chapter on or before March 20, 1997."

Scheduled Part 135 operations used to be allowed until the late '90's when FAR 119 came along. We called them "commuter" air carriers.

FAR 119 was developed as a result of the ambiguity between 135 and 121 scheduled operations. FAR 119 is a "road map" for this exact question: "Am I a 135 or a 121 operator?" and essentially eliminated scheduled 135 operations from the CFRs
 
I was watching a re-run episode of "I Survived" the other day about the Air Florida crash in D.C. in 1982. There were only 5 survivors, and the one giving the interview was one of them and said he was a Navy pilot. He said when the plane started taxiing he saw all the ice and thought "this can't be good", but they took off anyway. The plane struggled to gain speed, struggled to climb, and then the disaster.

I've said in other threads that it must be hell to be a professional pilot riding as a passenger and know that something's not right but not being able to do anything about it.
 
Didn’t realize it had changed. I flew Brasilias in the late 80s.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Southwest de-ices?

Must say I’m pleasantly surprised. Last time I was in Denver, everybody was going to the de-ice pad....except SWA. They said ‘screw that’ and went straight for the runway. I guess they figured they were taxiing too fast for anything to stick.
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There were many times that when I flew for Southwest that I didn't de-ice when others were. The reason was that they were originators and had snow or frost on the aircraft and I had flown in from another city and the aircraft was still clean. Also at Denver Southwest De-ices at a different area than United, Frontier and other airlines. So when you saw Southwest bypassing the De-ice ramp they had been de-iced at a different location.
 
Busflyer said:
If I recall correctly anything over 30 seats is 121.
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You still can fly a 30 seat plane under FAR 135. It has to be a non-scheduled flight. Several EAS operators use a DOT 380 certificate to create 2 companies. One holds out to the public with the DOT 380 certificate and then they use their sister charter company to fly the routes.
 
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