Airline Hiring? What the???

[Deuce]

This is my 1st post here, i have been doing a lot of serious thinking and research about becoming a pilot with the ultimate goal of becoming an airline pilot.

i have checked into numerous programs/schools & career options etc... I have dreamed about this job for a long time now, but am only now at a place in my life where i thought i could handle this, espically since i am just about done with my 4 year degree.

After reading this thread i ahve to admit there are some scary negative thoughts in my head now.

i was looking into places like the ERAU CAPT program, florida regional airline academy, a local community college partnered with a local flight school etc.. i am trying to find the best/most cost effetive option.

after realizing that i could very well potentially spend $90-100k at a "FO factory" (as some of you call them) i could end up in a lot of trouble. most of that would be with loans and what is left with my GI bill. i would come out of a program like that horribly in debt.

i have been told the first year or 2 salary for a regional airline FO is pretty low but quickly improves. i figured that would be ok, since i would'nt have a lot of experience and would have to put my time in to move up, gain experience, put in some hard work, earn a position etc...

but with that much debt and literally making a salary that is below the poverty line is insane, potentially for my first 5 years even. As it is now i have a fiancee and we have a son. i dont know if i could put them through that for my dream.

it seems absoutley backwards to have such a skillful job with thousands of dollars and hours worth or time and training invested into to make such a ridicliously low wage.

Im not even exaggerating the least bit, currently i work at UPS and within a year or 2 i will be offered a job driving trucks for them, STARTING salary will be somewhere around $45k and after 25-30 years i would retire (not adjusted for inflation) somewhere around $80k in todays value with a pension etc...

something is SERIOUSLY wrong that i will have possibly double a starting salary driving a truck than flying a jet full of people for a regional airline.

and even worse, what would happen to the people who invested tens of thousands of dollars into an intensive flight training program and maxed out all their available credit for their dream of becoming a pilot, only to not get hired?? or worse yet get hired and not even be able to pay back loans.

sorry for the long post i am just disheartened right now.

i am not in this for the money, i would just love to be a pilot with a respectable salary that can support a family and live comfortably

 

[woodstock]

i have been told the first year or 2 salary for a regional airline FO is pretty low but quickly improves. i figured that would be ok, since i would'nt have a lot of experience and would have to put my time in to move up, gain experience, put in some hard work, earn a position etc...

I understand it does go up in the first few years - it can nearly double! from 18K to start, to 36K. har har.

still not enough to live on, with a family.

 

[NC Pilot]

I personally am not a huge fan of unions.

My beef is with management taking huge bonuses when they are at the helm of a company that is driven into bankruptcy. My beef is with managements that start up alter ego type operations with the sole purpose of breaking unions and then taking huge bonuses for doing so.

And just how is that going to happen without the unions? Management damn well isn't going to give it to them on their own volition. Quite the contrary. They are trying to take as much away as possible.

I never said that. What I am tired of is management getting huge bonuses when their management has put a company in bankruptcy. I am tired of management getting huge bonuses when their only accomplishment is to force labor to work for less. I am tired of both sides not negotiating in good faith.

Greg,
I have to agree with you on your points about poor management taking the high salaries and bonuses while driving good companies into the ground. That is wrong and I have seen it time and again. A GOOD management team would not let that happen. A GOOD management team would recognize that the company is not going to succeed unless all members of the team are pulling in the same direction. A GOOD management team would be leading a company where the employees would not see the need for a union.

Unfortunately there are a lot of companies where there are poor management teams leading. There are a bunch of egomaniacs who care only about building their personnel wealth while trampling on those beneath them.

IMHO if a company has a union it is there because they get what they deserve and is usually a sign that the company is poorly run.

 

[poadeleted3]

amen Michael! you and I see eye to eye on this one.





well, but you aren't really paying him to read the paper? you're paying him to be there in case of an emergency, or to take a load off of the captain. and how much more do captains make? at the regionals it isn't much more than 60 is it? that's still not enough for a family. don't know what the big boys pay.

I'd jump on a flying job that paid $60K a year right now. That's still more than Cathy and I make, combined, and we think we are doing ok with the boy

Heck, I'd take a job for $30K, and sing songs about it LOL.

 

[Henning]

You're going to be a real popular guy with current pilots who have families and are watching their jobs and pay vanish. Most of them are dropping the blame on guys like you, who will whore out the industry at any price, to be able to fly. Ask some of the new F/Os for Mesa, Go Jets, etc. about how they are treated as bottom feeders.

Good Luck!

Greg

Most of the current ranks today, especially among the regional carriers, did the same thing though. 10 years ago all the commuters had Pay For Training programs run through Flight Safety and Sim Flight, and that was after you had 1200 hrs and a couple hundred multi. Southwest requires you get your type rating before applying (which as I understand it they will sell you at market price).

 

[Greg Bockelman]

(which as I understand it they will sell you at market price).

But that does not guarantee an interview.

 

[Henning]

But that does not guarantee an interview.

Sorry, forgot to mention that, quite true. And the progams that do guarantee an interview, well an interview is just that, it sure isn't a job.

 

[jnmeade]

How much do flight controllers make?

 

[n20junkie]

This is my 1st post here, i have been doing a lot of serious thinking and research about becoming a pilot with the ultimate goal of becoming an airline pilot.

i have checked into numerous programs/schools & career options etc... I have dreamed about this job for a long time now, but am only now at a place in my life where i thought i could handle this, espically since i am just about done with my 4 year degree.

After reading this thread i ahve to admit there are some scary negative thoughts in my head now.

i was looking into places like the ERAU CAPT program, florida regional airline academy, a local community college partnered with a local flight school etc.. i am trying to find the best/most cost effetive option.

after realizing that i could very well potentially spend $90-100k at a "FO factory" (as some of you call them) i could end up in a lot of trouble. most of that would be with loans and what is left with my GI bill. i would come out of a program like that horribly in debt.

i have been told the first year or 2 salary for a regional airline FO is pretty low but quickly improves. i figured that would be ok, since i would'nt have a lot of experience and would have to put my time in to move up, gain experience, put in some hard work, earn a position etc...

but with that much debt and literally making a salary that is below the poverty line is insane, potentially for my first 5 years even. As it is now i have a fiancee and we have a son. i dont know if i could put them through that for my dream.

it seems absoutley backwards to have such a skillful job with thousands of dollars and hours worth or time and training invested into to make such a ridicliously low wage.

Im not even exaggerating the least bit, currently i work at UPS and within a year or 2 i will be offered a job driving trucks for them, STARTING salary will be somewhere around $45k and after 25-30 years i would retire (not adjusted for inflation) somewhere around $80k in todays value with a pension etc...

something is SERIOUSLY wrong that i will have possibly double a starting salary driving a truck than flying a jet full of people for a regional airline.

and even worse, what would happen to the people who invested tens of thousands of dollars into an intensive flight training program and maxed out all their available credit for their dream of becoming a pilot, only to not get hired?? or worse yet get hired and not even be able to pay back loans.

sorry for the long post i am just disheartened right now.

i am not in this for the money, i would just love to be a pilot with a respectable salary that can support a family and live comfortably

Welcome Duece