Aircraft unresponsive and heading out to sea

Well, the one issue I see that needs attention in this story is ATC and the pilot's belief that they control the airplane.. A mind set increasingly drilled into impressionable minds these days.

First they don't get to fly your airplane - repeat that to yourself every night as you are drifitng off to sleep to get it drilled into your brain.

Second they get go home that night, even if you are dead - remember that.

The only time in a lot of years of flying when I needed to change altitude (really needed to) and she said she could not give me lower I immediately informed her that I was descending - period.
This gave her a heads up that she needed to turn any conflicting traffic out of my way.
It is just that simple. She/he knows where they are and how to move them. Not my problem.

It is possible that by the time the TBM knew he had a problem he was hypoxic enough not to be able to take charge. If so that is part of the tragedy.
The minute ATC said NO, instead of begging for 4 minutes had he simply pulled the throttle to flight idle, dumped flaps/gear and pushed over - 90 seconds later he would have been at breathing altitudes and he would likely be alive.
The plane would need a bunch of maintenance, but he would be alive.
 
Eagle I said:
With all due respect to the victims and their families, I can't believe the attention this story is getting. I was at the gym this afternoon when I first saw it on the TV. "Unresponsive plane has crashed" was the headline. OK, I thought, must be another Air France 447 or at least Payne Stewart kind of thing. No, it's a single-engine plane with three aboard. What? Then it leads the evening news. What is going on here? And why are we feeding into it all? I mean seriously, it's very sad, but WHY is this particular accident commanding so much attention?
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"Terrorism?!" That was the underlying tone when people started blasting the news story by email around my office. At least until I pointed out that it's tough to do much terror in a small, single engine airplane. At 25000 feet. Over Cuba.
 
Eagle I said:
With all due respect to the victims and their families, I can't believe the attention this story is getting. I was at the gym this afternoon when I first saw it on the TV. "Unresponsive plane has crashed" was the headline. OK, I thought, must be another Air France 447 or at least Payne Stewart kind of thing. No, it's a single-engine plane with three aboard. What? Then it leads the evening news. What is going on here? And why are we feeding into it all? I mean seriously, it's very sad, but WHY is this particular accident commanding so much attention?
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Slow news day and airplanes are frightening things created and controlled by magical beings.
 
asechrest said:
"Terrorism?!" That was the underlying tone when people started blasting the news story by email around my office. At least until I pointed out that it's tough to do much terror in a small, single engine airplane. At 25000 feet. Over Cuba.
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Maybe you're right, that it was just the fact that fighter jets were scrambled that made it a big deal, even though it clearly wasn't. And yeah, there's not really a whole lot of damage that kind of plane can do, unless you happen to be the unlucky person who lives at the point where it decides to crash.
 
cowman said:
Slow news day and airplanes are frightening things created and controlled by magical beings.
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:rofl: Right! And let's face it, most people have a fear of flying, so why not exploit it if you're trying to generate headlines?
 
Eagle I said:
:rofl: Right! And let's face it, most people have a fear of flying, so why not exploit it if you're trying to generate headlines?
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Again, without disrespecting the victims and their families, it was almost "OJ-like"......remember the chase? Everyone was glued to the tv, waiting to see what happened next. It's unfortunate, but that's how the general public works sometimes.
 
eman1200 said:
Again, without disrespecting the victims and their families, it was almost "OJ-like"......remember the chase? Everyone was glued to the tv, waiting to see what happened next. It's unfortunate, but that's how the general public works sometimes.
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I hear ya! Very creepy, though.
 
It's this 24/7 cable news cycle. They feel compelled to report things in excessive detail and keep talking on and on even when they have no more information.

I don't watch tv news anymore. It's so dumbed down and annoying. I prefer to wait until the day after the event and get the verified facts without the speculation from internet news sites.
 
What a sad audio to listen to. Many minutes pass while he stays at altitude and you can hear him slowly losing functionality. Such an unnecessary tragedy.
 
teejayevans said:
So if you are at 30,000', it would take 10 mins to get down to 10,000'. The question is what shape would you be in when you level out?
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My RV-10 does not go above 18K. Been to 16.5K. So, 4 minutes.
 
TriGear28 said:
They say he requested lower to 18000 feet. Any chance he requested "uh ten thousand" and it was heard as "18 thousand?" Anybody have a transcript or recording?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This is what I heard:
TBM: level 280
TBM: have indication not correct in plane, request 180,
ATC: turn 30 left, TBM repeats, but not as clearly as previous response
ATC: clear direct tayla, descend 200 TBM: repeats direct tayla (I thought it was taylor, doesn't appear he understood it either cause he never turned)
ATC: copy descent 200.
TBM:Blured response, clear direct and copy 200
at this point it's already over
 
Hmm.. so he doesn't get cleared to descend right away. Part of him knows there is something wrong and that he needs to descend now. Another part says "ATC won't let me go lower; If I declare and descend now I might cause a conflict and a big hassle. I can wait another minute or two..." :dunno:
 
It's clear from this monday quarterback,that there was a serious problem, you can hear it in his voice. ATC wasn't that busy despite it being Atlanta airspace, I thought they could have done better, but he is PIC and should have declare emergency, I wonder if he was already feeling effects even before making the initial call that clouded his judgment, taking away any sense of urgency.
 
F01LA said:
Hmm.. so he doesn't get cleared to descend right away. Part of him knows there is something wrong and that he needs to descend now. Another part says "ATC won't let me go lower; If I declare and descend now I might cause a conflict and a big hassle. I can wait another minute or two..." :dunno:
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As I said before, excellent chance his brain was not functioning properly by this point.

Unlikely he was critically evaluating options and making rational decisions.
 
cowman said:
I wonder how hard it would be to hook something into these autopilots that would automatically start a descent in the event of pressure loss.
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The jet I fly does. Turns 90 deg and descends to 15K. All the pilot has to do is reduce power and the AP handles the rest!
 
let me first say this is obviously a tragedy for everyone involved.
That said, i have a problem with the way ATC handled the situation. it was more than clear that with every transmission from the pilot he was quickly loosing it. it was also clear from the first transmission that he had a problem and needed to get down quickly. Im not blaming the controller for the accident, but i do think it should have been handled with a bit more urgency.
i realize its the pilots responsibility to declare, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put this picture together.
 
FastEddieB said:
As I said before, excellent chance his brain was not functioning properly by this point.

Unlikely he was critically evaluating options and making rational decisions.
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When flying in the "hypoxia altitudes" I would count to 5 then backwards to 1. I'd made a deal with myself that if that became confusing, I'd descend. Never had a chance to see if I'd hold up my end of the bargain. At the time, I was doing backcountry skiing and mountaineering at 11,000'+ so I felt comfy hanging out at 12,500'.
 
hkyplr18 said:
The jet I fly does. Turns 90 deg and descends to 15K. All the pilot has to do is reduce power and the AP handles the rest!
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Same with the one I fly (Sovereign). The caveat is that you need to be awake enough to reduce the throttles to idle and extend the speedbrakes. Otherwise it will not descend very steeply because cruise speed at cruise power is somewhat close to Mmo.
 
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FSI teaches use of autopilot once emergency descent is commenced. Starting it, is done manually (no AP). Once started, AP goes on. B-350

Oxygen masks on is #1 immediate item
 
Eagle I said:
With all due respect to the victims and their families, I can't believe the attention this story is getting. I was at the gym this afternoon when I first saw it on the TV. "Unresponsive plane has crashed" was the headline. OK, I thought, must be another Air France 447 or at least Payne Stewart kind of thing. No, it's a single-engine plane with three aboard. What? Then it leads the evening news. What is going on here? And why are we feeding into it all? I mean seriously, it's very sad, but WHY is this particular accident commanding so much attention?
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Because they were able to catch the drama unfolding for 'Live Action action action ' and that makes for ratings which determine tomorrow's advertising rates. So to answer your question of why, "increased profits derived from no production cost content."
 
1. O2
2. Start it down
3. Tell Center
 
cowman said:
It's this 24/7 cable news cycle. They feel compelled to report things in excessive detail and keep talking on and on even when they have no more information.

I don't watch tv news anymore. It's so dumbed down and annoying. I prefer to wait until the day after the event and get the verified facts without the speculation from internet news sites.
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Meh, some American in the Mid East will get his head chopped off, or a kardasian will show some nip by accident, and this crash will be long forgotten by the media.
 
James331 said:
Meh, some American in the Mid East will get his head chopped off, or a kardasian will show some nip by accident, and this crash will be long forgotten by the media.
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Or joan rivers funeral and 5 days of "how joan rivers changed the world" newscasts

Like the ferguson "victim" who was a "rising star" whose life was "abruptly stolen" by our "corrupt police"

Soap box over you get the drift
 
B350ATP said:
Or joan rivers funeral and 5 days of "how joan rivers changed the world" newscasts

Like the ferguson "victim" who was a "rising star" whose life was "abruptly stolen" by our "corrupt police"

Soap box over you get the drift
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Yep, remember, the courts ruled that the 'News' was under no obligation to tell the truth which leaves their only obligation to maximize profit and provide 24/7 content that will out rate their 50 competing 24/7 infotainment channels. Since the easiest way to do that is to pander to lowest common denominator emotions, we now have the news media we have. Yay us.
 
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And PoA replicates the "news" media's "sensationalize and speculate without facts syndrome" quite nicely as is attested to by this thread and so many others that are similar.

It's human nature I guess...

:no:
 
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In something like this. As the airplane runs out of gas and looses altitude, will the pilot wake up just in time to see his death?

Tony
 
1600vw said:
In something like this. As the airplane runs out of gas and looses altitude, will the pilot wake up just in time to see his death?

Tony
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It would depend on how long and high they were. If exposed to severe hypoxia long enough, they will be brain dead before they come down. From lower if they don't end up in a graveyard spiral, they may wake up in time to ditch, and properly equipped with floatation and a 406PLB, some die markers, smoke and flares, and a mirror, have a decent chance of rescue. The whole spectrum in between is possible as well. Just depends on how long and how severely the brain was starved of oxygen, so yes, it's possible to wake up and realize, "Oh, it's time to die."
 
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timwinters said:
And PoA replicates the "news" media's "sensationalize and speculate without facts syndrome" quite nicely as is attested to by this thread and so many others that are similar.

It's human nature I guess...

:no:
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I agree! From this point forward NOBODY shall post ANYTHING ANYWHERE on POA without FACTS backing them up! No opinions allowed!

What's that you ask? Did someone **** in my coffee this morning? I'm acting like a grumpy old woman? I take offense to that!

:redface:
 
Bobanna said:
A very unfortunate chain of events; prayers for their souls and the families. If he had an emergency, developing or otherwise, he should have started right down, communication can wait...the PIC doesn't worry about what the controller is "working" on, and waiting for "permission" is poor airmanship. I wonder how much training he had for high-altitude emergencies...the flight levels are hostile places for humans, and few survive poor decision-making when things begin to go wrong.
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Nobody thinks correctly when hypoxic, that's the big problem with it. You can have all the training in the world, and if your brain can't find that resource because it lacks the chemical ability to do so, you're plain ****ed.
 
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