Air Wagner..... He’s baaaaackk.

Amazing that you watched the whole 40 minutes 10 minutes after uploaded
 
N1120A said:
Uh, there is a very nice Eclipse that is in the hangar right across from Jerry's. There are tons of turboprops in and out of there, along with light jets. There are also lots more twins than just Jerry.

Auburn is one of the busiest nontowered airports in the US, and apparently the busiest west of the Rockies. It is an airport that could use a tower.
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Casa Grande, AZ has hundreds of movements a day. FAA won't put a tower there until there's an accident. Sucks, but towers are reactive.
 
Not what I would do, but it was fun to watch!
 
If anyone watched the Dec 11 one, the most painful part was hearing a pilot busting an instrument checkride at 18:45 into the video. It starts with the SAC Approach controller's, "November 75J, where are you going?" Never a good thing to hear.
cry.gif
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I hope not but I’m glad it’s out in the public that he is not doing some things correctly.

Is there a way to link this thread to his channel on YouTube?
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lol, you’d also want to include the hundreds of other threads around the internet. Maybe thousands at this point, who knows.
 
Good demo of Wagner Minimums at 29 minutes into the video. The avionics say "minimums" but he keeps going. He may have mis set the actual mins, so whatever. The video cuts away from the instrument panel as he keeps descending, then decides to go around a few moments later. When it cuts back to the MFD, he is passing through 980 (which was mins) doing 1700 FPM, pitched about 18* up.

How is this guy not dead yet?
 
This video was nearly as good as the secondary minimums video.
 
I am watching the whole thing.. well more listening while working on stuff from home office. The thing that gets me throughout this flight is the back and forth banter between pilot and passenger (wife) during some critical phases of flight. I think I heard it during takeoff. Definitely hearing it during approach in what appears to be some hard IMC. Maybe I am too rookie of a pilot, but I need it quiet so I can talk to myself during these phases (I do talk to myself.. reading checklists, callouts, briefing the approach...)

Edit... watching some more... what are secondary minimums? Is that because he was trying to do the circling approach with one set of higher mins, but then figured he could go down to the straight in mins, land straight in (assuming with a tailwind) and use the lower straight in minimums? Just never heard the term secondary minimums before in my IR training.

Edit to the Edit - holy cr@p!!!! NO way that was legal... sure class G is 1m CoC but he penetrated several clouds on that crazy insane approach. So many things wrong there... even if it was legal in terms of VFR... that bank angle... that descent rate... And I guess it's because I just got done with IR training... what happens if you balk the landing?? No way you are going to be able to get up to an appropriate altitude in VMC there. Just wow.
 
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Deelee said:
I am watching the whole thing.. well more listening while working on stuff from home office. The thing that gets me throughout this flight is the back and forth banter between pilot and passenger (wife) during some critical phases of flight. I think I heard it during takeoff. Definitely hearing it during approach in what appears to be some hard IMC. Maybe I am too rookie of a pilot, but I need it quiet so I can talk to myself during these phases (I do talk to myself.. reading checklists, callouts, briefing the approach...)
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I think that is a rookie thing to some degree, but this guy acts like a rookie, so it's a moot point.
 
Yeah, I have been told to not talk to myself before... lol. I think maybe once I get some IR experience under my belt that will stop. I just got the rating Tuesday, so I def need some experience.
 
Deelee said:
Yeah, I have been told to not talk to myself before... lol. I think maybe once I get some IR experience under my belt that will stop. I just got the rating Tuesday, so I def need some experience.
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Congratulations on your rating! The theory about the Air Wagner YouTube channel that is supported by the most evidence is that Jerry is working with the FAA to generate discussion about what not to do. As far as talking to yourself, who told you not to? There are a number of psychological things that happen when we speak out loud, but if nothing else it makes you take a second longer on each item on the check list to be sure it is actually done rather than a passing thought soon forgotten.

midlifeflyer said:
If anyone watched the Dec 11 one, the most painful part was hearing a pilot busting an instrument checkride at 18:45 into the video. It starts with the SAC Approach controller's, "November 75J, where are you going?" Never a good thing to hear.
cry.gif
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I actually watched that one. If only 75J knew what was going on nearby...
 
iamtheari said:
Congratulations on your rating! The theory about the Air Wagner YouTube channel that is supported by the most evidence is that Jerry is working with the FAA to generate discussion about what not to do. As far as talking to yourself, who told you not to? There are a number of psychological things that happen when we speak out loud, but if nothing else it makes you take a second longer on each item on the check list to be sure it is actually done rather than a passing thought soon forgotten.
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Thanks!! Yeah, that's sort of how his videos seem to me... long examples of what not to do. And it is my wife who tells me to stop talking to myself all the time... at home, not in the airplane lol! So yeah, I probably will keep doing it. It's sort of part of my SOP at this point and probably will be hard to stop even if I wanted to.
 
Groundpounder said:
Good demo of Wagner Minimums at 29 minutes into the video. The avionics say "minimums" but he keeps going. He may have mis set the actual mins, so whatever. The video cuts away from the instrument panel as he keeps descending, then decides to go around a few moments later. When it cuts back to the MFD, he is passing through 980 (which was mins) doing 1700 FPM, pitched about 18* up.

How is this guy not dead yet?
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I think he had the circling minimums set, but descended down to the level of the straight in minimums, although I admit I didn't look at the altimeter that closely. I thought he was fine until minute 38 of the video, to be honest.
 
Deelee said:
I am watching the whole thing.. well more listening while working on stuff from home office. The thing that gets me throughout this flight is the back and forth banter between pilot and passenger (wife) during some critical phases of flight. I think I heard it during takeoff. Definitely hearing it during approach in what appears to be some hard IMC. Maybe I am too rookie of a pilot, but I need it quiet so I can talk to myself during these phases (I do talk to myself.. reading checklists, callouts, briefing the approach...)

Edit... watching some more... what are secondary minimums? Is that because he was trying to do the circling approach with one set of higher mins, but then figured he could go down to the straight in mins, land straight in (assuming with a tailwind) and use the lower straight in minimums? Just never heard the term secondary minimums before in my IR training.

Edit to the Edit - holy cr@p!!!! NO way that was legal... sure class G is 1m CoC but he penetrated several clouds on that crazy insane approach. So many things wrong there... even if it was legal in terms of VFR... that bank angle... that descent rate... And I guess it's because I just got done with IR training... what happens if you balk the landing?? No way you are going to be able to get up to an appropriate altitude in VMC there. Just wow.
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You know, I would never do what he did, if he did lose the runway he was hosed, but if you can see through a cloud, then technically it's not a cloud. I didn't see him penetrate anything I would call a cloud in that last sequence. That said, he is going to kill himself sooner or later. His wife needs to stop talking when he is busy.
 
Deelee said:
I am watching the whole thing.. well more listening while working on stuff from home office. The thing that gets me throughout this flight is the back and forth banter between pilot and passenger (wife) during some critical phases of flight. I think I heard it during takeoff. Definitely hearing it during approach in what appears to be some hard IMC. Maybe I am too rookie of a pilot, but I need it quiet so I can talk to myself during these phases (I do talk to myself.. reading checklists, callouts, briefing the approach...)

Edit... watching some more... what are secondary minimums? Is that because he was trying to do the circling approach with one set of higher mins, but then figured he could go down to the straight in mins, land straight in (assuming with a tailwind) and use the lower straight in minimums? Just never heard the term secondary minimums before in my IR training.

Edit to the Edit - holy cr@p!!!! NO way that was legal... sure class G is 1m CoC but he penetrated several clouds on that crazy insane approach. So many things wrong there... even if it was legal in terms of VFR... that bank angle... that descent rate... And I guess it's because I just got done with IR training... what happens if you balk the landing?? No way you are going to be able to get up to an appropriate altitude in VMC there. Just wow.
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Its not a rookie thing. You can see him getting distracted. This is what I said above. She interrupts a radio call about Ice, she is talking constantly through the approach... probably nervous as hell. regardless of 10 hour IFR experience or 1000 you should be maintaining a sterile cockpit during critical phases of flight. But again, possibly the least of his worries lol.
 
Deelee said:
Yeah, I have been told to not talk to myself before... lol. I think maybe once I get some IR experience under my belt that will stop. I just got the rating Tuesday, so I def need some experience.
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Quite the opposite. As @iamtheari said, there are many benefits. It helps focus flows and checklist use and helps with our attention to important tasks. Whether you use the 5Ts or not, saying out loud what comes next is a great way to avoid errors and maintain situational awareness. I tend to only talk when I am instructing and am actively trying to do it more when I am alone.

Jerry's problem isn't talking to himself. It's talking to the audience. Here's his November 19 offering with a link to the relevant part (you have to watch it on YouTube). He's telling the audience all about his glass panel and how much great information it displays, completely oblivious to the CDI in the middle of it continuously moving unnoticed to the right.
 
Deelee said:
what are secondary minimums?
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It's Jerry's own term and a bit of a joke at this point. AUN has only one GPS approach, so it's either straight in 7 or circle to land 25. In a video a few years ago, the winds were favoring 25 a bit but the ceiling was pretty close to circling minimums. His plan was to fly the LPV glidepath and, if he broke out above circling minimums , he'd circle and land 25. If he didn't break out, he'd continue straight in down to LPV ("secondary") minimums and accept the tailwind.

It actually wasn't an awful plan but critics went absolutely wild when he referred to the option to continue straight in to the LPV DA as "secondary minimums" As he is wont to do, he ran with the critics and incorporated the phrase - mostly to **** them off.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's Jerry's own term and a bit of a joke at this point. AUN has only one GPS approach, so it's either straight in 7 or circle to land 25. In a video a few years ago, the winds were favoring 25 a bit but the ceiling was pretty close to circling minimums. His plan was to fly the LPV glidepath and, if he broke out above circling minimums , he'd circle and land 25. If he didn't break out, he'd continue straight in down to LPV ("secondary") minimums and accept the tailwind.

It actually wasn't an awful plan but critics went absolutely wild when he referred to the option to continue straight in to the LPV DA as "secondary minimums" As he is wont to do, he ran with the critics and incorporated the phrase - mostly to **** them off.
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If you're cleared for the GPS 7 approach, you can't change to a different approach without getting an amended clearance, can you?

I was taught that if you're on an ILS and the glideslope doesn't pop up, you can't just switch to LNAV with a higher minimum, you've got to go missed and get a clearance for the GPS approach. Same deal, no?
 
Salty said:
If you're cleared for the GPS 7 approach, you can't change to a different approach without getting an amended clearance, can you?

I was taught that if you're on an ILS and the glideslope doesn't pop up, you can't just switch to LNAV with a higher minimum, you've got to go missed and get a clearance for the GPS approach. Same deal, no?
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It's the same approach, just a different minimums line.
 
Salty said:
If you're cleared for the GPS 7 approach, you can't change to a different approach without getting an amended clearance, can you?
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It's the same approach. It's just a question of whether at the end after completing the approach and breaking out if you circle to another runway or just land straight in.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It actually wasn't an awful plan
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Agreed. To me, where he goes off the rails in this last video is at the 38:00 min mark (approximately) when he cancels IFR. I won't say that what he did was necessarily illegal (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't), but I don't think it was wise.
 
I feel the need to clarify something - no CFI/CFII has ever told me to stop talking to myself (in case they are on this board...)... In fact, it was encouraged for the reasons as @iamtheari and @midlifeflyer have pointed out. Just want to give the appropriate credit to the great teachers I have had so you all don't think it was an instructor who told me that... honestly my wife tells me to stop talking to myself at home (I tend to mutter while I work). :)
 
PPC1052 said:
Agreed. To me, where he goes off the rails in this last video is at the 38:00 min mark (approximately) when he cancels IFR. I won't say that what he did was necessarily illegal (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't), but I don't think it was wise.
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37:48 is a better place to start... He had just called ATC to say he was back with them on the missed approach and, as they are beginning to ask his intentions, he abruptly banks into a steep turn and says "we have the airport in sight and we're going to go in and land." He was in class E airspace and clearly below VFR minimum distance from clouds both when and after he cancelled, and he was in a steep descending turn off of the missed approach procedure well before his IFR cancellation was received by ATC.
 
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