AGI privileges

Now a follow up:

To give flight instruction in an airplane for which a type rating is required, all one needs is the flight instructor cert with the appropriate category and class (and instrument rating if giving instrument instruction), and a pilot certificate with the type rating.

To give instruction in a simulator (a la FlightSafety) for an airplane that requires a type rating, it appears that all one would need is an AGI and (next year) an IGI, and no type rating on a pilot certificate.

Or am I misunderstanding "any certificate or rating" in the AGI privileges?
 
TMetzinger said:
Now a follow up:

To give flight instruction in an airplane for which a type rating is required, all one needs is the flight instructor cert with the appropriate category and class (and instrument rating if giving instrument instruction), and a pilot certificate with the type rating.
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Yes, although you can still give instruction without a CFI certificate as an ATP with a type rating in the aircraft in which said instruction is to be completed.

TMetzinger said:
To give instruction in a simulator (a la FlightSafety) for an airplane that requires a type rating, it appears that all one would need is an AGI and (next year) an IGI, and no type rating on a pilot certificate.

Or am I misunderstanding "any certificate or rating" in the AGI privileges?
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That's the way the regs read. Obviously training facilities like FlightSafety, SimuFlight, SimCom, and the like have their own internal policies that may require their instructors to have a type rating for the aircraft which they teach.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Yes, although you can still give instruction without a CFI certificate as an ATP with a type rating in the aircraft in which said instruction is to be completed.



That's the way the regs read. Obviously training facilities like FlightSafety, SimuFlight, SimCom, and the like have their own internal policies that may require their instructors to have a type rating for the aircraft which they teach.
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Has there ever been a formal definition of "Air Transport Service"? I recall some discussion years ago about limiting the ability of ATPs to teach to only teaching fellow employees - so an ATP would be sufficient for a captain to sign off the SOE for a newly rated copilot, but not enough for the captain to work at FlightSafety.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Yes, although you can still give instruction without a CFI certificate as an ATP with a type rating in the aircraft in which said instruction is to be completed.
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Only at the air carrier that employs you as an instructor in their training program.
 
Hey guys, sorry I didn't see this till now. I'll address a couple of things here, some have been said, some have not. I'm too lazy to go quote the FAR's right now, but the pertinent sections have been quoted already.

1) An AGI can provide Ground Training for any certificate or rating under Part 61, which includes the instrument rating, however they can only provide endorsements to take the written for any certificate under Part 61, which does not include the instrument rating written exam.

2) I am teaching for a local flight school which contracts with a community college to provide instruction in their aviation courses. I taught Aviation Safety in the fall semester, and I will be teaching Air Navigation in the spring (which is just VFR nav, so I don't know how I'm going to stretch that into a whole semester - I guess those students will have lots of practical flight planning experience).

3) No endorsement is necessary to take the FOI or AGI writtens. Just go take the tests and take your results to the local FSDO.

4) Don't bother with the BGI - it's basically the same question bank, but the test is 100 questions for the AGI as opposed to 60 for the BGI (IIRC) and you get more privileges. I'm a Private Pilot, with no instruction received on the Commercial/ATP stuff, and I scored >90 on the written, after studying the Gleim book.

5) The only endorsement I got was from a CFI saying that I had the knowledge necessary to teach since I didn't meet the regulatory recency of experience requirements (act as AGI for 3 of the previous 12 months).

I think that about covers it. I've really enjoyed the teaching, and I look forward to continuing (and getting my CFI once I get enough hours for my Commercial)!
 
Well I passed the FOI, AGI, and FIA exams today. Going to try to see the FSDO this week. Wonder if they'll be able to use the IACRA app I submitted?

Interestingly, the inspector I asked a few weeks ago said a brand new ground instructor does NOT require the endorsement to begin teaching. According to him, it's only required when your certificate is more than one year old, if you haven't been teaching some in the past year. I'll ask the one who issues my temp the same question and see what kind of different answer I get.

PJ, when you give WINGS seminars (if you do), do you record that time as ground instruction given? And what do you do to log the time you spend teaching in your school? I'm considering building a separate journal for ground instruction, since a pilot logbook isn't really a good match. I can still put the time into Logbook pro, but I'm thinking I want more space for documentation.
 
TMetzinger said:
Well I passed the FOI, AGI, and FIA exams today. Going to try to see the FSDO this week. Wonder if they'll be able to use the IACRA app I submitted?

Interestingly, the inspector I asked a few weeks ago said a brand new ground instructor does NOT require the endorsement to begin teaching. According to him, it's only required when your certificate is more than one year old, if you haven't been teaching some in the past year. I'll ask the one who issues my temp the same question and see what kind of different answer I get.

PJ, when you give WINGS seminars (if you do), do you record that time as ground instruction given? And what do you do to log the time you spend teaching in your school? I'm considering building a separate journal for ground instruction, since a pilot logbook isn't really a good match. I can still put the time into Logbook pro, but I'm thinking I want more space for documentation.
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I was told to bring a physical 8710-1 since they couldn't process an IACRA submission yet, which was fine with me because it's much easier just to fill out a few blocks on the 8710-1 (don't fill in the flight time blocks).

Interesting that the inspector interprets the reg that way, since the reg itself indirectly reads that an endorsement is required since no provision exists that states it isn't required upon issuance of a new ground instructor certificate.

Check out http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=19692 regarding ground instructor logs. This guy made a pretty good new binder/log.
 
jmaynard said:
If I can get the AGI, I certainly will do so.
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Well, I went in cold and took the AGI this morning. Got an 88 on it. Now, to see what the Minneapolis FSDO wants to do about setting up an appointment, since their info on the web says one is required.

That was easy enough that I'll probably go get the IGI, too, just for grins.
 
Congrats Tim and Jay on passing your tests! Welcome to the world of getting paid to talk about flying!

I have not given any WINGS seminars yet, but if I were to do so, then yes, I probably would log it as ground instruction given. When I teach my class, I do record that time. I have a separate logbook just for ground instruction, but I also make a record in my regular Pilot Log Book so it's all in one place too. I just titled the blank column "Ground Instruction Given" and I put a 0 in the Total Flight Time column.

I wasn't sure if I needed the endorsement or not, but I figured it wouldn't hurt anything and would just be safer if I just got it. So, I had a CFI friend of mine from the museum ask me a couple of questions until he was satisfied that I knew my stuff and endorse me.
 
jmaynard said:
Well, I went in cold and took the AGI this morning. Got an 88 on it. Now, to see what the Minneapolis FSDO wants to do about setting up an appointment, since their info on the web says one is required.
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As the signature shows, that's now been taken care of.

My temporary AGI certificate says that the number is PENDING. What do I write in a logbook in place of the certificate number when signing someone off, until I get the permanent certificate in the mail? (I was told to expect 90 days, and to call if I haven't gotten it in 100.)
 
jmaynard said:
As the signature shows, that's now been taken care of.

My temporary AGI certificate says that the number is PENDING. What do I write in a logbook in place of the certificate number when signing someone off, until I get the permanent certificate in the mail? (I was told to expect 90 days, and to call if I haven't gotten it in 100.)
Click to expand...

You write "pending" for the certificate number.
 
jmaynard said:
As the signature shows, that's now been taken care of.

My temporary AGI certificate says that the number is PENDING. What do I write in a logbook in place of the certificate number when signing someone off, until I get the permanent certificate in the mail? (I was told to expect 90 days, and to call if I haven't gotten it in 100.)
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The Windsor Locks FSDO used my pilot certificate number as my ground instructor certificate number, apparently everything goes under the same number in most cases. But since legally your temporary says "pending" I would imagine that's what you should write. If it were me, I would probably note my pilot certificate number so there is some record that associates me with the entry.
 
Cool - I got my temp today. The inspector issuing it said I could start teaching, no need for an endorsement.

That said, I'm gonna get an endorsement anyway - (PJ, wanna send me one?) and I'm gonna send a letter to the Chief Counsel to see if they'll issue a definitive opinion.
 
TMetzinger said:
Cool - I got my temp today. The inspector issuing it said I could start teaching, no need for an endorsement.

That said, I'm gonna get an endorsement anyway - (PJ, wanna send me one?) and I'm gonna send a letter to the Chief Counsel to see if they'll issue a definitive opinion.
Click to expand...

Cool, attached are the endorsements I printed on label paper and stuck in the back of my logbook.
 

Attachments

Cool.

Here's the wording right out of AC61-65E:
GROUND INSTRUCTOR ENDORSEMENT ​
54. Ground instructor who does not meet the recent experience requirements: section 61.217(b). ​

[FONT=JFIKGN+TimesNewRomanPSMT,Times New Roman PSMT][FONT=JFIKGN+TimesNewRomanPSMT,Times New Roman PSMT]I certify that (
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=JFILBL+TimesNewRomanPS,Times New Roman PS][FONT=JFILBL+TimesNewRomanPS,Times New Roman PS]First name, MI, Last name[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=JFIKGN+TimesNewRomanPSMT,Times New Roman PSMT][FONT=JFIKGN+TimesNewRomanPSMT,Times New Roman PSMT]) has demonstrated satisfactory proficiency on the appropriate ground instructor knowledge and training subjects of section 61.213(a)(3) and (a)(4). [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=JFIKGN+TimesNewRomanPSMT,Times New Roman PSMT]
[FONT=JFIKGN+TimesNewRomanPSMT,Times New Roman PSMT]/s/ [date] J. J. Jones 987654321CFI Exp. 12-31-05 [/FONT]​
[/FONT]NOTE: Signed by CFI or CGI, as appropriate; the expiration date would apply only to a CFI.


OK, but here's what's weird... I get the endorsement today... is it good for a whole year?


​
 
TMetzinger said:
That said, I'm gonna get an endorsement anyway - (PJ, wanna send me one?).
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That's probably a smart idea - I figure that if I don't need it and have it, it doesn't do any harm. But if I did wind up needing it and didn't have it, anyone I endorsed for a written exam or signed off the ground portion of their flight review would get screwed as well.

PM Sent.

Jason - cool! Thanks for posting those endorsement labels!
 
TMetzinger said:
OK, but here's what's weird... I get the endorsement today... is it good for a whole year?
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Yes, and you don't ever need another one as long as you serve as a ground instructor for three months within the preceding 12 from the time you serve as a ground instructor again.

I.e. Let's say you are offered a ground instructing position in March of 2010. The endorsement you receive today is no longer valid, but you can act as an AGI so long as you've served as an AGI for 3 months since March of 2009. If you fall outside that window, you just need another endorsement. At least, that's my take after reading the reg:

§ 61.217 Recent experience requirements.

The holder of a ground instructor certificate may not perform the duties of a ground instructor unless, within the preceding 12 months:
(a) The person has served for at least 3 months as a ground instructor; or
(b) The person has received an endorsement from an authorized ground or flight instructor certifying that the person has demonstrated safisfactory proficiency in the subject areas prescribed in §61.213 (a)(3) and (a)(4), as applicable.
Click to expand...
 
Ron Levy said:
Not if your existing pilot cert # is your SSN. The FAA no longer issues certificates with SSN's on them.
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I got my plastic certificate for free a few years ago by having a new one issued without the SSN. I guess my AGI will have the same number.

Will I get a new certificate for both AGI and PP-ASEL, or will I get to carry two pieces of plastic?
 
jmaynard said:
I got my plastic certificate for free a few years ago by having a new one issued without the SSN. I guess my AGI will have the same number.

Will I get a new certificate for both AGI and PP-ASEL, or will I get to carry two pieces of plastic?
Click to expand...
they're two different certificates, you should get a new piece of plastic.
 
jmaynard said:
I got my plastic certificate for free a few years ago by having a new one issued without the SSN. I guess my AGI will have the same number.

Will I get a new certificate for both AGI and PP-ASEL, or will I get to carry two pieces of plastic?
Click to expand...
You will not get a new pilot certificate unless you ask for one or apply for a new certificate or rating (e.g., adding IR).
 
jmaynard said:
Will I get a new certificate for both AGI and PP-ASEL, or will I get to carry two pieces of plastic?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a requirement to have your AGI or IGI certificate in your possession, so I don't think you have to carry it unless you want to.

My wallet is too thick as it is, so my AGI/IGI card is stored in a safe place. I do keep my pilot certificate in my wallet.
 
Ron Levy said:
You will not get a new pilot certificate unless you ask for one or apply for a new certificate or rating (e.g., adding IR).
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Corollary: Does a CFI get yet another piece of plastic? If so, then I guess I'll need to go ahead and pay the $2 for the "English Proficient" on my private ticket.
 
jmaynard said:
Corollary: Does a CFI get yet another piece of plastic? If so, then I guess I'll need to go ahead and pay the $2 for the "English Proficient" on my private ticket.
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I have FOUR of those pieces of plastic.
 
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