AFMS Required for IFR GPS?

U

Unregistered

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I've seen lots of rental planes in which the IFR GPS database is dutifully kept up to date, but I know that at least some of them did not have an airplane flight manual supplement (AFMS) in them. Does this mean that I have been flying GPS approaches in these airplanes illegally?
 
Yes, it probably does. I don't think there are any IFR GPS's which don't require a flight manual supplement for legal IFR operation. Even if your airplane doesn't require an AFM, you still need the supplement to the non-existent AFM to be legal for IFR GPS operation, and it must be in the aircraft.
 
Unregistered said:
I've seen lots of rental planes in which the IFR GPS database is dutifully kept up to date, but I know that at least some of them did not have an airplane flight manual supplement (AFMS) in them. Does this mean that I have been flying GPS approaches in these airplanes illegally?
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The AFMS may not be much. I think mine (for a GNC-420W) is a single sheet of paper in the back of the AFM. Garmin also supplied three different spiral bound user manuals, but those don't count as the AFMS.
 
COFlyBoy said:
The AFMS may not be much. I think mine (for a GNC-420W) is a single sheet of paper in the back of the AFM. Garmin also supplied three different spiral bound user manuals, but those don't count as the AFMS.
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On the G1000, the STC requires the AFMS which in turn requires the Cockpit Reference Guide, which Garmin will happily print for you for around $600. :hairraise: :mad2: :incazzato:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
On the G1000, the STC requires the AFMS which in turn requires the Cockpit Reference Guide, which Garmin will happily print for you for around $600. :hairraise: :mad2: :incazzato:
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:yikes:

So does having the pdf on your iPad count as having the CRG?

I love flying an approach and flipping through the manuals to figure out how to program the approach. I'm glad Garmin and the FAA require that I have them onboard.
 
COFlyBoy said:
The AFMS may not be much. I think mine (for a GNC-420W) is a single sheet of paper in the back of the AFM. Garmin also supplied three different spiral bound user manuals, but those don't count as the AFMS.
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I found a GNS-430 AFMS on the web that runs to 12 pages.
 
COFlyBoy said:
:yikes:

So does having the pdf on your iPad count as having the CRG?
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Yes. They don't specify that it has to be on Garmin-blessed, TSO'd paper, thankfully. The Diamond owners group has done group print orders of the manuals that are just as nice as the "official" ones but only cost $50 instead of $600+.

I love flying an approach and flipping through the manuals to figure out how to program the approach. I'm glad Garmin and the FAA require that I have them onboard.
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:rofl:
 
I believe the AFMS should be included with the STC package if that's how the GPS installation was approved.
 
Ron Levy said:
It will need to be customized and approved for your installation. Your local avionics shop should know how to do that, but it probably won't be free.
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I a renter, not an owner, so the only thing I can do about it is complain to the FBO.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yes. They don't specify that it has to be on Garmin-blessed, TSO'd paper, thankfully. The Diamond owners group has done group print orders of the manuals that are just as nice as the "official" ones but only cost $50 instead of $600+.



:rofl:
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Not that I really care, since I'd rather they have the document than not...

But how do they get around Copyright? Just the "let's hope no one at the manufacturer wants to find the IP lawyer on staff some more work to do" theory, or do they get permission to copy the material?

I just ask out of curiosity. Not playing Devil's Advocate or suggesting they should stop.
 
denverpilot said:
Not that I really care, since I'd rather they have the document than not...

But how do they get around Copyright? Just the "let's hope no one at the manufacturer wants to find the IP lawyer on staff some more work to do" theory, or do they get permission to copy the material?

I just ask out of curiosity. Not playing Devil's Advocate or suggesting they should stop.
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The G1000 cockpit reference guide in .pdf format is available for download free on the Garmin web site.
http://www8.garmin.com/support/userManualAviation.jsp?market=1&subcategory=59&product=All
 
kontiki said:
I believe the AFMS should be included with the STC package if that's how the GPS installation was approved.
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True statement. Most of the GNS480 and the GNS430W/530W and GTN GPS navigators are installed via an STC with an AML (Approved Model List) and include a FAA Approved Flight Manual Supplement where all the installer does is check a few boxes to indicate the configuration.

In the case of GPS navigators up to the GNS430/530 legacy units, the manufacturer supplied a sample AFMS and you had to get it modified to match the installation and then approved by the FAA thru the field approval process. The install manuals had a STC that only applied to one specific aircraft make and model and was usually installed as a follow on installation referencing the STC. This used to be done via the field approval process.
 
The flight manual supplement is distinct from the pilot's guide (manual), but the supplement mandates that also be in the plane). I've got small loose leaf binder with my Operating Limitations book, the equipment list, and about eight "supplements" to the non-existent flight manual.

In addition the manuals for the 480, MX20, and the autopilot are stuffed in the seat pocket.
 
COFlyBoy said:
:yikes:

So does having the pdf on your iPad count as having the CRG?

I love flying an approach and flipping through the manuals to figure out how to program the approach. I'm glad Garmin and the FAA require that I have them onboard.
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Whether the pdf on the iPad counts depends on the guy doing the ramp check. It has been my experience that, like most other government business, there is a lot of variation in the interpretation of regulations by FAA officials.

Garmin does not require anything. They have no authority over us. The FAA requires that you have a flight manual on board that applies to your type certificate. Each and every revision to a flight manual has to be FAA approved. A revision to a document that is referred to by the flight manual can be made without approval in many cases, depending on what gets included in the reference. TC and STC applicants often choose to make loose references to unapproved vendor documents in their approved manuals so that they don't have to return to the FAA for an approval for each and every change they might want to make to the user documentation.
 
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So is it required for an experimental amateur-built? Ops limitations state "Day VFR only unless suitably equipped".
 
COFlyBoy said:
The AFMS may not be much. I think mine (for a GNC-420W) is a single sheet of paper in the back of the AFM. Garmin also supplied three different spiral bound user manuals, but those don't count as the AFMS.
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I read my AFMS for the 430 last night, it has 12 pages including the cover and is specific to the aircraft serial# and registration. It was electronically signed by an inspector at the FSDO on the day of the installation and then presumably printed from a pdf by the avionics installer. The spiral bound manual with a specific parts number is referenced in the AFMS and required to be carried on board and accessible when performing operations dependent on the GPS.
 
pericynthion said:
So is it required for an experimental amateur-built? Ops limitations state "Day VFR only unless suitably equipped".
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The builder gets to define what is required :eek: No such thing as an STC for an experimental :rolleyes: Other than the Ops Lim note you quote, I don't know of any other requirement for experimentals.
I have a 300XL in my RV7A, with an AK950L annunciator panel, and use my GRT Sport as the CDI.
 
pericynthion said:
Taken to the limit then, may we legally fly an approach with a handheld?
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In addition to what Ron said, you'd need to find a handheld certified for IFR (they are kinda like hens teeth) The regs do require GPS equipment certified for IFR.
 
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In an emergency (like a total electrical failure leaving you with your vacuum gyros and a handheld), you'd be able to use your emergency authority and fly an approach with a handheld GPS. That's what I'd do if I didn't have VFR nearby.

Otherwise, no, at least in the US.
 
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