AF1 = $181,757 per hour

Steve

Steve

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oo, oo - I love such analyses.

180K/hr
3,000 per minute
50 bucks a second!!
 
Its approaching my Tiger's rate after its last annual. :rolleyes2:
 
And people wonder why I say that the President should travel on a Gulfstream.

No person is worth that much, I don't care who you are.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
And people wonder why I say that the President should travel on a Gulfstream.

No person is worth that much, I don't care who you are.
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And how would all the media fit?
 
Bob Noel said:
And how would all the media fit?
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They can sit on the ground, where they belong. Or hop a commercial flight like everyone else. They don't need to get touted along.

Or (novel concept) make them pay for the plane.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
oo, oo - I love such analyses.

180K/hr
3,000 per minute
50 bucks a second!!
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Of course, this figure doesn't tell the whole story. Usually, there's lots of people who accompany the president on trips who all pay their own way (40 people and probably more * $2000 for a trip adds up). So the real cost to taxpayers isn't close to 180K.
 
Not to send this into the SZ but I think the 747 is as much a show of corporate strength than anything.
 
Everskyward said:
Not to send this into the SZ but I think the 747 is as much a show of corporate strength than anything.
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Another reason why he should fly a Gulfstream...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Another reason why he should fly a Gulfstream...
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Up until this point, anyway, I thought the image this country wanted to project was of being strong rather than frugal. I'm not saying I agree with one side or another, just pointing it out.
 
Everskyward said:
Up until this point, anyway, I thought the image this country wanted to project was of being strong rather than frugal. I'm not saying I agree with one side or another, just pointing it out.
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Certainly the 747 is a sign of the ability to spend vast sums of money, and I agree that it's probably more of an image thing than anything else. My opinion is just that they ought to spend less money on presidential travel (or for that matter travel of all government officials). It's an unpopular opinion, though.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Certainly the 747 is a sign of the ability to spend vast sums of money, and I agree that it's probably more of an image thing than anything else. My opinion is just that they ought to spend less money on presidential travel (or for that matter travel of all government officials). It's an unpopular opinion, though.
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+1

Does the number account for the other aircraft that are flown with all the supporting people and vehicles? I suspect a trip of his actually costs a great deal more then that.
 
1) Maintenance is 100% USAF. These people would be working on some aircraft no matter which, so that's a wash. But if you insist - 26 USAF on board, lots on the ground and some of those go along on the C130. Since it's not 8-5 duty, there's additional cost to pay per diem and housing when on a trip.
2) Media pays its own way. CNN has reported (check the CNN website) that they receive a bill from (probably the GAO?) for the equivalent of 1st class flight.
3) There are times when a Gulfstream (or smaller than 747) is used but I don't remember any for the Prez other than helicopters. Cheney used small jets for Jackson Hole trips.
4) Of course it costs more - the recomplete rebuild of the upper deck of two 747s for com/nav/crypto aint cheap.
5) Navy carriers are "Force Projection", the 747s are "Image Projection & Protection".
6) Support aircraft - C130s aren't cheap to support, either.
7) Hourly fuel burn of a Really Heavy 747 is 3600 gal Jet-A. If refueling at a USAF, cost is probably much cheaper. If refueling someplace like Denver Int (KDEN or DIA) it's $6.56/gal right now (I'm sure there's a "military" discount available).
8) What else can we add to the bill?
 
Can we add in the cost in disruptions caused by TFRs, presidential motorcades, and so forth?

As for the direct costs associated with the VC-25s, it doesn't seem necessarily unreasonable to me. It makes sense to me that the head of executive branch of one of the largest and most powerful countries on the planet needs to travel with a good-sized retinue, and I have heard that the communications suite in the aircraft is supposed to allow the president to conduct most of his business while on the aircraft. That seems worthwhile to me, if true.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
They can sit on the ground, where they belong. Or hop a commercial flight like everyone else. They don't need to get touted along.

Or (novel concept) make them pay for the plane.
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Actually IIRC the press pay for their seats on AF1. I don't think they get carted along for free.
 
AdamZ said:
Actually IIRC the press pay for their seats on AF1. I don't think they get carted along for free.
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1st class airfare is hardly paying for the seat. Sure, it's not free, but the media gets a real bargain when they only pay 1st class airfare.
 
Bob Noel said:
1st class airfare is hardly paying for the seat. Sure, it's not free, but the media gets a real bargain when they only pay 1st class airfare.
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I don't think so. I don't know the specifics, but full fare FC from DC to, say, London is in the $8k range. X 40. I don't think $320,000 is a insignificant.
 
Just for kicks a few months ago I looked up what a last minute first class ticket from Denver to Toyko would cost and it was in the neighborhood of $20,000. That was much more than I expected.
 
murphey said:
7) Hourly fuel burn of a Really Heavy 747 is 3600 gal Jet-A. If refueling at a USAF, cost is probably much cheaper. If refueling someplace like Denver Int (KDEN or DIA) it's $6.56/gal right now (I'm sure there's a "military" discount available).
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Actually, all the military fuel contracts are incredibly expensive per gallon - standard government spending.

FBO: "Our jet-A is $5.50/gallon and has been for the last 10 years."
Gov: "Ok, we'll pay you $7.50/gallon - but you have to promise that we'll always pay $7.50 - even if it goes to $8."
FBO: "DEAL!"
 
murphey said:
1) Maintenance is 100% USAF. These people would be working on some aircraft no matter which, so that's a wash. But if you insist - 26 USAF on board, lots on the ground and some of those go along on the C130. Since it's not 8-5 duty, there's additional cost to pay per diem and housing when on a trip.
2) Media pays its own way. CNN has reported (check the CNN website) that they receive a bill from (probably the GAO?) for the equivalent of 1st class flight.
3) There are times when a Gulfstream (or smaller than 747) is used but I don't remember any for the Prez other than helicopters. Cheney used small jets for Jackson Hole trips.
4) Of course it costs more - the recomplete rebuild of the upper deck of two 747s for com/nav/crypto aint cheap.
5) Navy carriers are "Force Projection", the 747s are "Image Projection & Protection".
6) Support aircraft - C130s aren't cheap to support, either.
7) Hourly fuel burn of a Really Heavy 747 is 3600 gal Jet-A. If refueling at a USAF, cost is probably much cheaper. If refueling someplace like Denver Int (KDEN or DIA) it's $6.56/gal right now (I'm sure there's a "military" discount available).
8) What else can we add to the bill?
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I want to make a correction.........
VP Cheney was in office for 8 years, I estimate he was here 12 times a year. Except for maybe two times he showed up in a G-5, he came in a 757 every other time. Each visit consisted of 50-70 support people. Usually 2- C-17's for the limo's and secret service stuff. On his extended summer vacations the visit included the mobile radar set up. That contigency usually had another 40+ people. Rumor among the staff was you could figure 600,000 per day he was here. The SS guys and gals were basically friendly but had to portray the bad guy image. You CANNOT imagine the money that got wasted in those 8 years...................:hairraise::hairraise::hairraise:
 
N801BH said:
I want to make a correction.........
VP Cheney was in office for 8 years, I estimate he was here 12 times a year. Except for maybe two times he showed up in a G-5, he came in a 757 every other time.
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Here's his airplane, on the ramp at KJAC. He had just gotten off, along with a number of kids who I assume were his grandchildren or something.

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Everskyward said:
Not to send this into the SZ but I think the 747 is as much a show of corporate strength than anything.
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Although I think it is overused, the fact is, when the USA shows up, this is the way to do it. The capability they bring along is not insignificant - or unimportant.

Everskyward said:
Here's his airplane, on the ramp at KJAC. He had just gotten off, along with a number of kids who I assume were his grandchildren or something.

attachment.php
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Man. That, friends, is traveling in style.
 
SCCutler said:
Although I think it is overused, the fact is, when the USA shows up, this is the way to do it. The capability they bring along is not insignificant - or unimportant.



Man. That, friends, is traveling in style.
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I believe this is the exact same plane Pelosi uses several times a week to shuttle her back and forth from DC to San Francisco. Just her and a couple of her staff. I once saw her in a news clip saying she would not be caught dead in those small G-V's. " I am the speaker of the house and I want the same plane as Dick Cheney" I am an equal opportunity basher. :thumbsup::thumbsup::D
 
N801BH said:
I believe this is the exact same plane Pelosi uses several times a week to shuttle her back and forth from DC to San Francisco. Just her and a couple of her staff. I once saw her in a news clip saying she would not be caught dead in those small G-V's. " I am the speaker of the house and I want the same plane as Dick Cheney" I am an equal opportunity basher. :thumbsup::thumbsup::D
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But actually that is untrue...

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_nancy_pelosi_order_up_a_200-seat.html
 
Everskyward said:
N801BH said:
I believe this is the exact same plane Pelosi uses several times a week to shuttle her back and forth from DC to San Francisco. Just her and a couple of her staff. I once saw her in a news clip saying she would not be caught dead in those small G-V's. " I am the speaker of the house and I want the same plane as Dick Cheney" I am an equal opportunity basher. :thumbsup::thumbsup::D
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But actually that is untrue...

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_nancy_pelosi_order_up_a_200-seat.html
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I'll just quote Scott:
ScottM said:
That is true. But one should not let facts get in the way of a rant.
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Rotor&Wing said:
Like the money that was "wasted" on Biden,Clinton, Gore, Bush 41, Quayle, Reagan, Carter, Mondale, etc, etc......
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It was a waste then, it's a waste now...

I'm glad to hear that the press pays their way (I didn't know that). I'll maintain my belief that it's a complete waste to fly the President around in the way that he is flown.
 
N801BH said:
Using a site that is giving out 'facts' published by Annenberg is like a pack of wolves guarding the henhouse. Left wing covering their other left wing croonies..... :cool2::D They cannot even get the seat count right. Link is titled 200 seat. Then in the "facts" it's 50, then 45.... ???? WTF ?
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The "200 seats" is not something they came up with it is from the title and body of the moronic chain email in several versions that they and other sites such as Snopes have debunked.
 
Here is the only part of the first article that I thought was grin worthy:

"The average American could buy a house for the amount of money it takes to run Air Force One every hour."

That has got to be the stupidest statement out of all of it. Once the "average American" pays his four or five months a year of wages to the government, it is gone for good. If it is not wasted running a lavish airplane, it will be certainly wasted on something else. Does anyone honestly think the "average American" really gives a rats patooty how its wasted?

If the "average American" actually cared, it wouldn't be happening, would it?

John
 
John Baker said:
Here is the only part of the first article that I thought was grin worthy:

"The average American could buy a house for the amount of money it takes to run Air Force One every hour."

That has got to be the stupidest statement out of all of it. Once the "average American" pays his four or five months a year of wages to the government, it is gone for good. If it is not wasted running a lavish airplane, it will be certainly wasted on something else. Does anyone honestly think the "average American" really gives a rats patooty how its wasted?

If the "average American" actually cared, it wouldn't be happening, would it?

John
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It cost almost half a billion to launch the space shuttle just to carry space food sticks and tang to the space station. :idea:

The Iraq war cost over $3,000,000,000,000. That to attack a country that was not a threat to us nor had attacked us.

Extending the Bush tax cuts will cost us $5,000,000,000,000 according to the CBO
 
N801BH said:
Using a site that is giving out 'facts' published by Annenberg is like a pack of wolves guarding the henhouse. Left wing covering their other left wing croonies..... :cool2::D They cannot even get the seat count right. Link is titled 200 seat. Then in the "facts" it's 50, then 45.... ???? WTF ?
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So in other words, it's completely inappropriate for someone to correct information and cite the reason for the correction, after finding (from a reputable source, namely the 89th Air Wing) the facts?
 
ScottM said:
Extending the Bush tax cuts will cost us $5,000,000,000,000 according to the CBO
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If Congress wouldn't spend it LIKE IT IS FREE, this wouldn't be a problem, now, would it?

And as this thread has pretty much devolved into Spin Zone material, IMO.
 
murphey said:
So in other words, it's completely inappropriate for someone to correct information and cite the reason for the correction, after finding (from a reputable source, namely the 89th Air Wing) the facts?
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Left wingers are ruining the country!

Fox news is fair and balance, Palin 2012



::Popcorn::

In all seriousness, I see this all the time. (the whole disregarding facts and factchecking)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
If Congress wouldn't spend it LIKE IT IS FREE, this wouldn't be a problem, now, would it?
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Who elected those people for Congress with the mandate of "serve me in Congress"? No one actually votes for someone that they want to just sit with their thumb up their butt. They want them to bring home some of that money to their home district and/or state. That is our system.


Greg Bockelman said:
And as this thread has pretty much devolved into Spin Zone material, IMO.
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Devolved would mean it started as non-SZ to begin with. Since post #1 this has pretty much been a SZ topic. Like many threads this week politics has been in vogue outside of the SZ. But we have had some nice discussions about flying in the SZ. It has been bizaro week at PoA. :D:D
 
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