Aerobatics in a 172?

denverpilot said:
Seriously?!

I really thought he was more of a stand up guy than that, to tell that fib to a reporter with a straight face.

Sigh. Show biz.

That’s truly disappointing. Nothing against his flying of course, awesome stuff. Just the decision to lie about it, if true.

Guess it’s time to re-watch House, M.D. and recalibrate expectations. LOL
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A different perspective: The secret was that there were no secrets. He's really just that good. He did not want anyone to know he was flying a stock aircraft because if everyone kept believing there were after-market mods that allowed him to do things not possible in an OEM machine, they would spend more time trying to figure out the mods than learning how to fly the machine like him.

Seems like reasonable gamemanship to me. :D
 
Tom-D said:
Follow the TCDS, for all details.
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I don't see anything in there either with regard to spins and the R or S models. Plenty of notes on the earlier models where they're authorized in the utility category. Am I missing it?
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
I don't see anything in there either with regard to spins and the R or S models. Plenty of notes on the earlier models where they're authorized in the utility category. Am I missing it?
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If it isn't there it is not authorize.
 
smv said:
A different perspective: The secret was that there were no secrets. He's really just that good. He did not want anyone to know he was flying a stock aircraft because if everyone kept believing there were after-market mods that allowed him to do things not possible in an OEM machine, they would spend more time trying to figure out the mods than learning how to fly the machine like him.

Seems like reasonable gamemanship to me. :D
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I’m torn. In show biz, perhaps.

I’m the replacement at my company of the engineer who played that “I’m the only guy who knows all this stuff, so I can do as I please” game.

They didn’t even interview me on site so he wouldn’t know he was being fired.

The team had all of his silly stuff reverse engineered in a month and replaced with better in three. Was pretty fun, honestly.

I’m probably the only person who ever felt even slightly bad for him. That kind of thing just doesn’t work out well in systems engineering.

Been fun now for seven years I think? Eight?

I’ve got no secrets. If the young guy wants my workload and salary he’s welcome to it. I have plenty to do that could make us better at what we all do that would pay us both better.

I guess a two helicopter show couldn’t do that in the airshow biz though. I get it. At some point wowing the customer in that biz doesn’t raise the ticket price at the gate and the number of tickets sold doesn’t rise either.

We have an easier opportunity to grow both.
 
Tom-D said:
If it isn't there it is not authorize.
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But then that would mean chandelles, steep turns, and lazy eights not be authorized either. TCDS states "The airplane must be operated according to the appropriate Pilot’s Operating Handbook and FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual (POH/AFM)" and "All FAA required placards are included in Section 2 of the applicable POH/AFM." So, going back to the manual, those maneuvers plus spins are authorized in the R and S model in the utility category according to the manuals I have available.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
But then that would mean chandelles, steep turns, and lazy eights not be authorized either. TCDS states "The airplane must be operated according to the appropriate Pilot’s Operating Handbook and FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual (POH/AFM)" and "All FAA required placards are included in Section 2 of the applicable POH/AFM." So, going back to the manual, those maneuvers plus spins are authorized in the R and S model in the utility category according to the manuals I have available.
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It is by model, and remember that the POH is a placard.

The TCDS has notes, by model and serial number.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
I don't see anything in there either with regard to spins and the R or S models. Plenty of notes on the earlier models where they're authorized in the utility category. Am I missing it?
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FYI: Once an FAA approved flight manual was required by 21.5 after 1979, a number of required operating limits were moved from the TCDS to the AFM. Hence the reason for 2 sets of notes in the TCDS by variant. So AFM/RFM Chapter 2 (usually) now contains those operating limitations previously listed in the TCDS for those older models. It's my understanding the reason for the change was a AFM is much easier to update than a TCDS and that prior to 1979 there was no other approved document available to list/move such limitations.
 
denverpilot said:
Tucker talks more about his changes as needed to pull off things he can’t in precious aircraft but also says quite clearly that he has to practice like crazy and make sure his body can handle it more than the aircraft.

Pretty wild biz, airshow work. Very interesting risk management mindset.
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Sean Tucker flies three times a day pretty much year ‘round, plus works out six days a week. He is motivated and driven more than almost anyone I’ve ever met. He is also extremely aware of his abilities and limits, and is his own biggest critic. I expect he’d say he’s never had a perfect flight.

He is one of those guys who uplifts everyone. It’s impossible to have a bad day when he’s around.
 
denverpilot said:
That’s truly disappointing. Nothing against his flying of course, awesome stuff. Just the decision to lie about it, if true.
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smv said:
Seems like reasonable gamemanship to me.
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And that's what it was... gamemanship. Goes along with his shtick he mod'd stiffer blades, solid MRH, bolted xsmn to deck, and taught himself to fly helicopter aerobatics. Those of us who worked/flew the 105 used to get a kick out of his "brilliance." The problem was the German/Swiss side of Red Bull were stating the actual facts to include the guys who taught Aaron and Fitzgerald the aerial moves. Not to take away from their achievements but the current US pilot Fitzgerald is night and day different than Aaron plus he'll tell you it's a stock 105. And just to note, with Fitzgerald running the show now the US 105 team is back in business.
 
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They may be saying it's modified to keep other pilots from trying such things in their unmodified aircraft...
 
Dana said:
They may be saying it's modified to keep other pilots from trying such things in their unmodified aircraft...
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FWIW: without derailing this thread much further... if that was the case, then the manufacturer, MBB, didn't get the memo as they usually went out of their way to show what an "unmodified" 105 was capable of. Every 105 pilot knew what the aircraft could do as the MBB pilots and various demo pilots were always happy to show it off. MBB/Eurocopter actually made a number of demo vids of its flying agility. Put a couple below filmed 10+ years before Red Bull was even around. There was only one pilot who tried to make a mystery out of it....;)
 
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Bell206 said:
FWIW: without derailing this thread much further... if that was the case, then the manufacturer, MBB, didn't get the memo as they usually went out of their way to show what an "unmodified" 105 was capable of. Every 105 pilot knew what the aircraft could do as the MBB pilots and various demo pilots were always happy to show it off. MBB/Eurocopter actually made a number of demo vids of its flying agility. Put a couple below filmed 10+ years before Red Bull was even around. There was only one pilot who tried to make a mystery out of it....;)
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Thanks for sharing that. Forgot to say that last week. Impressive rotor system on that thing, with what little I’ve read and understand about whirlybirds.
 
denverpilot said:
Thanks for sharing that. Forgot to say that last week. Impressive rotor system on that thing, with what little I’ve read and understand about whirlybirds.
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Don’t need no stinking rigid rotor! ;)

 
Charlie Zimmerman was and is a great guy and flew a stock 105. Also was also aCaptain in the German Army and side job was the factory test pilot...he had his personal aircraft provided to him and did most of the maintenance as well. In the summer of 89 we flew a two ship up to see Charlie as he wanted a proper Igloo cooler. We bought one at the PX and removed the 20mm ammo can in one of our AH-1 to get it there. Charlie was a friendly nice guy...
 
steingar said:
Aerobatics in a Skyhawk is sorta like racing your Prius.
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I-Was-Drag-Racing-In-a-Prius-Quote-By-Jason-Bateman-In-Horrible-Bosses.jpg
 
It's going to vary by model. Looking at the generic POH for a 172S,

Normal category, Chandelles, Lazy Eights, Steep Turns and Stalls (except whip stalls) are authorized, with recommended entry speeds.

In Utility category, you can also do intentional spins.
 
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