Aerobatic crash at dayton airshow

The FAA will take action against GA because regulating freedom away is what b'cracies do. Not because of this accident. At their best the FAA keeps nonpilots safe from pilots. A cute little airplane crashed, no one on the ground was hurt, the airshow system worked. It is regrettable for those involved, but the world doesn't care. Yes there will be some media, more local then national, but it looks worse because you see all the links amassed together on threads like this.
We have become such ******* that we will not admit that flying is fun because it is dangerous, and airshows are entertaining because they are dangerous(for the performers.)
Cue the 'I enjoy reading the regs and planning flights, not danger' defense. I'll admit there are a lot of people like that, flying simulators.
Fearless Tower said:
Why? Because in case you haven't noticed it, public sentiment is not entirely favorable for general aviation right now. As mentioned earlier, the average public doesn't even notice or think about airshows until they see the gory videos plastered all over the TV and web.

Yes, folks have been getting killed in airshow acts for almost a century. What makes this different is that only in relatively recent years has the public been exposed to the aftermath courtesy of the countless smart phones with instant access to the web.

If you don't think the FAA would consider taking such action under the guise of keeping the public safe, you've apparently missed out on some of the recent changes the FAA has arbitrarily handed down to warbird operators giving rides.
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There's a reason such activities are advertised as "Death-Defying!"

How low must an inverted biplane fly in order for the crowd to clearly see somebody standing on the wing?
 
ClimbnSink said:
The FAA will take action against GA because regulating freedom away is what b'cracies do. Not because of this accident. At their best the FAA keeps nonpilots safe from pilots. A cute little airplane crashed, no one on the ground was hurt, the airshow system worked. It is regrettable for those involved, but the world doesn't care. Yes there will be some media, more local then national, but it looks worse because you see all the links amassed together on threads like this.
We have become such ******* that we will not admit that flying is fun because it is dangerous, and airshows are entertaining because they are dangerous(for the performers.)
Cue the 'I enjoy reading the regs and planning flights, not danger' defense. I'll admit there are a lot of people like that, flying simulators.
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Do you really believe there are people in the government that have nothing to do all day but brainstorm and think 'how can I take away freedoms from people just for the sake of taking away freedoms'?

If so, I truly pity you.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Do you really believe there are people in the government that have nothing to do all day but brainstorm and think 'how can I take away freedoms from people just for the sake of taking away freedoms'?

If so, I truly pity you.
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They may not be conscious of it, but that is how gov't/human nature works. To believe otherwise is ignorant and daft.
 
Brad Z said:
I cringe every time I read something like "he/she died doing something he/she loved" ....
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as opposed to "he/she died after a grueling five year struggle against cancer"?

The only absolute, certain way to not die in a plane crash is to never fly in an airplane. Yes, it was a risky stunt but they chose to do it, they were never forced into doing it and although I did not know them I would assume that anyone who would undertake such a performance would be fully aware of the heightened risk and would have their affairs in order.

If it's tragedy then, isn't every death a tragedy? Is the goal of mankind that everyone die quietly in their sleep on their 100th birthday?:dunno:
 
ClimbnSink said:
We have become such ******* that we will not admit that flying is fun because it is dangerous, and airshows are entertaining because they are dangerous(for the performers.)
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for the performers?

Tell that to the 10 killed and 69 injured, all on the ground, at Reno.
 
whifferdill said:
I knew Charlie, so this is tough to say, but I don't think this was a mechanical issue.
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I can't stop watching the video looking for something conclusive. I didn't know Jane but Charlie was one of my best buds in the sport and I've spent countless hours watching him fly at contests and hanging out together. This was something he'd done with Jane a lot and I just don't see him messing this up like this. Charlie flew competitive aerobatics first, then air shows. The precision and judgement engrained from his contest flying always showed in his air show work. Also, if he was trying to roll upright, it seems like he would have likely rolled the other way to put positive G on Jane vs. the negative of a quick roll to the right.

This one's hitting hard and leaves a big void for many in the sport. When aerobatic competitors say they go to contests for the people as much or more than the flying - Charlie was one of the guys they would have been talking about. He was the consummate sportsman who always had time to help out even if you were his competition.

For all those that wouldn't ever fly acro or who don't understand why anyone would ever fly like this, please just be respectful, kind, and honest if you must comment at all.
 
PittsDriver said:
This one's hitting hard and leaves a big void for many in the sport. When aerobatic competitors say they go to contests for the people as much or more than the flying - Charlie was one of the guys they would have been talking about. He was the consummate sportsman who always had time to help out even if you were his competition.
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So true Wes. He showed up to Farmville last year to help out and ended up being the only other person flying Advanced with me, just so we could have the category. I don't think he'd flown a contest in a couple years and didn't care... he was there to have a good time and help out. That he did. He was the first one to laugh when his headset flew off this head during one of his flights. I'm sure he was a great bud.
 
Silvaire said:
as opposed to "he/she died after a grueling five year struggle against cancer"?

The only absolute, certain way to not die in a plane crash is to never fly in an airplane. Yes, it was a risky stunt but they chose to do it, they were never forced into doing it and although I did not know them I would assume that anyone who would undertake such a performance would be fully aware of the heightened risk and would have their affairs in order.

If it's tragedy then, isn't every death a tragedy? Is the goal of mankind that everyone die quietly in their sleep on their 100th birthday?:dunno:
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My uncle, who is also my namesake, died "doing what he loved." Having read the accident report, I believe he died screwing up something he loved doing. From what I remember about him and learned from my family, he had a bit of a daredevil streak in him. He met his ultimate demise in a stall spin accident off of Cape Cod spotting fish.

You're right. I'm sure it was quick and painless, but I doubt he woke up that morning thinking that would be his last flight. He never had a chance to pass on his stories, tell his family goodbye, etc. Chat with his nephew about flying, etc.

I can't speak for everyone, but my goal is to live as long as my body will allow, enjoy every minute of it, and pass on to others what I learned from my time on the planet. If it takes a hundred years, so be it... :)
 
None of this matters a lot at this point, but I just saw something in one of the videos that I had not noticed before. At the point where the airplane had hesitated in the slightly left wing low inverted attitude, and just before the roll attempt back to the right, there was left aileron deflection, but the airplane was not responding in roll. Almost like the weight and drag of the wingwalker kept the airplane from continuing the roll to the left at that airspeed. Then there was a very fast roll reaction to the right once right aileron and aft stick were applied.
 
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ClimbnSink said:
We have become such ******* that we will not admit that flying is fun because it is dangerous.

Playing computer sims would be cheaper and safer. Everything else is the same.
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If you honestly think aviation's danger is not only an advantage, but is the sole advantage that flying has over simming, then you could get the same benefit more cheaply by staying on the ground and wiring your simulator to electrocute you if you crash.
 
A friend of mine (a trained AFR crash investigator) opined after watching the video that as the elevator never goes very far to push the nose up before trying to roll out. Maybe something as unfortunatly simple as a loose harness/belts or a headset cord wrapped around the stick prevented the pilot from pushing enough negative to arrest the decent. His only option would have been to try to roll out of trouble.
At the altitude he started his last manuever he didn't leave himself much room for something going wrong...

Chris
 
Fearless Tower said:
The problem is that some people think the low altitude is necessary to put on a good show.

The question becomes one of is it really worth the risk? I don't think so. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if the FAA is right now as we speak re-thinking low altitude waivers. The problem is that the average person in the public only pays attention or notices airshows when something like this happens and gets plastered all over the news/web. Sure as hell doesn't help GA.
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I agree. I was talking at work about this horrible accident and someone said. That happens every couple of weeks at an airshow. Why do they have those anyway? I corrected her by saying that is not true. She said oh yes they just had one the other day at some race or something and several people were killed. Fact is the public has no clue and the press does everything they can to add drama to the story. It is sad that GA is suffering from misinformation like that.
Press release headline:
Aerobatic duo killed in crash because no flight plan was filed.


I agree with other posters. I would rather go out doing something I loved rather than laying in a bed suffering.
I hope they RIP
 
Foxhole said:
I agree with other posters. I would rather go out doing something I loved rather than laying in a bed suffering.
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Not me. I enjoy a good flight, I doubt I would enjoy the last few seconds of that flight. I would vastly prefer to die in bed at home at a ripe old age with my kids around me, than in front of a horrified crowd.

Ryan
 
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