Advice on finding A/P work...

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gcd89

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Greg D.
Got my A/P back in December....I've been able to get a couple short term jobs (like a week hanging engines, etc), but have not been able to find a steady, permanent or even contractual employment.

Most places require 2 years experience...I don't really wanna relocate, because I love where I live, I'm doing flight training here, and there's quite a few opportunities, but none of these places will hire me.

Is there some sort of resume trick or something to stand out? Is there something I'm not doing right at an interview? Should I play up my flight training?

BTW, what is recommended starting pay for an A/P?? I have no idea, but I've been asked it in interviews before.
 
You will likely have to be able to relocate if you want constant work until you get a few years experience, then you will have more options on locations. I had to move out of state to find employment when I got my A&P, then more options became available as I gained experience.

Also be prepared to relocate frequently if you are going to pursue that as a career.
 
flyer said:
You will likely have to be able to relocate if you want constant work until you get a few years experience, then you will have more options on locations. I had to move out of state to find employment when I got my A&P, then more options became available as I gained experience.

Also be prepared to relocate frequently if you are going to pursue that as a career.
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That kinda sucks. Why is that exactly?
 
Where do you live?

We actually lose money on green A&Ps -- the time they take from the senior folks, the training, and catching and fixing their mistakes all add up to make them a real tough bet. That said, we usually have one or two in a quarantined area of the shop to scrub bellies and do oil changes while we keep a close eye on them :)

It sucks for us doubly because by the time we've invested a few years in them and they're getting decent, they'll run off and either join up with the airlines, disney (a big hirer of A&Ps btw), or go work for a competitor. I completely empathize with any shop who doesn't bother with greenies anymore. Your predecessors have sorta hosed ya with their antics.

$0.02

- Mike
 
gcd89 said:
That kinda sucks. Why is that exactly?
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It has been my experience that most shops will not keep you on for long when work slows, and it seems that the work loads are always fluctuating in this business. Most shops will do lay offs based on seniority, but others it wont matter how long you have been there. I had one A&P job lasted 4 years once and I thought I was set, but I still got the axe when things slowed up, that was my 4th relocation.
 
Got any flight clubs around you? Our club (KTDZ - Toledo, Ohio) has an A&P that is a member and he does the work and signs off in lieu of having to make the monthly dues and/or pay to fly the planes. (He never did fly the planes though he had his own) He enjoyed doing the maintenance on the planes.
 
Apply EVERYWHERE, worst they can say is no. Be willing to work cheap, there are a lot of other out of work A&Ps and as a newb the best you can do to set youself appart is to price yourself into the market.

How were your scores in school. If they were excellent then that might help some. Are any of your instructors willing to vouch for you.
 
You might also consider freelancing. Thats what Im doing right now and have been fairly busy so far.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Temco has a big facility on Tampa airport. Have you applied there?
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I did try Pemco a while ago, but since then they have entered some sort of Chapter 11 BS and layed off a bunch of people.
 
Skylane81E said:
Apply EVERYWHERE, worst they can say is no. Be willing to work cheap, there are a lot of other out of work A&Ps and as a newb the best you can do to set youself appart is to price yourself into the market.

How were your scores in school. If they were excellent then that might help some. Are any of your instructors willing to vouch for you.
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How cheap? Like $11 would be the rate I would say, but is even that too much??

In A/P school I graduated Cum Laude with a 3.8 GPA.
 
I have applied at a few places in my local airport (KPIE) which would be dream jobs for me. I'm there fairly often for flight lessons, and I live close. But I couldn't land anything at the places that were hiring, one being an air ambulance company.

This job is what I want the most, because seems laid back and it's a smaller operation, which I prefer (I hate working for huge companies where you're just a number). I've called/followed up 3 times and everytime they say "The position isn't filled, we're still reviewing applicants, you aren't out of the running yet". I plan on calling them again on monday, but is there something I should say?
 
Apply everywhere and keep following up on your applications, show that you are serious about being a mechanic. I have been beat up here, for saying "you're out" if you tell me that you're going to work as a mechanic until you get a flying job. Think about what you say. I've hired so many people right out of school. New people can fit into many shops, I had each of my teams set up with 3 levels of experience.

I sold my shop 6 months ago to Spartan graduate that I hired out of school in 2000. If I can make one suggestion, (specialize).
 
Make some flyers and put them on every hangar door at every airport that you would like to service. and every bulletin board at every lounge that caters to pilots.

You'd be suppressed how many owners are unhappy with their maintenance people.
 
Tom-D said:
Make some flyers and put them on every hangar door at every airport that you would like to service. and every bulletin board at every lounge that caters to pilots.

You'd be suppressed how many owners are unhappy with their maintenance people.
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While this is a great idea, I don't think I'm confident enough to work on my own. I'll admit I do work better on a team, I guess, and I'd probably need to someone to "apprentice" under for a little bit. I don't think, with my limited experience, I can just be thrown into working on someone's plane with out any help or anything right off the bat.
 
gcd89 said:
While this is a great idea, I don't think I'm confident enough to work on my own. I'll admit I do work better on a team, I guess, and I'd probably need to someone to "apprentice" under for a little bit. I don't think, with my limited experience, I can just be thrown into working on someone's plane with out any help or anything right off the bat.
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simply don't do what you are not comfortable doing.
 
Tom-D said:
simply don't do what you are not comfortable doing.
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I'm liking this flyer idea the more I think about it.

So where could I put these flyers? I don't imagine many places would be willing to have this freelance A/P potentially taking business from them?
 
gcd89 said:
Got my A/P back in December....I've been able to get a couple short term jobs (like a week hanging engines, etc), but have not been able to find a steady, permanent or even contractual employment.

Most places require 2 years experience...I don't really wanna relocate, because I love where I live, I'm doing flight training here, and there's quite a few opportunities, but none of these places will hire me.

Is there some sort of resume trick or something to stand out? Is there something I'm not doing right at an interview? Should I play up my flight training?

BTW, what is recommended starting pay for an A/P?? I have no idea, but I've been asked it in interviews before.
Click to expand...

If you have a mechanical background prior to your A&P, make sure it's on your resume. Also look in the mirror, if you've got long hair, facial hair... may need to clean it up.

The main thing about a new A&P without a mechanical background is that you're as likely (if not more) to cost the shop in damage and errors as make them money; not only in the direct costs of repairing them but also to losing customers. People don't return to shops that make mistakes with their planes. If you don't look clean reliable and trustworthy, very few shops will take a chance on a fresh mechanic.
 
I've travel all over Florida, hitting the various airports. Send me a PM if you need any possible leads.
 
Henning said:
If you have a mechanical background prior to your A&P, make sure it's on your resume. Also look in the mirror, if you've got long hair, facial hair... may need to clean it up.

The main thing about a new A&P without a mechanical background is that you're as likely (if not more) to cost the shop in damage and errors as make them money; not only in the direct costs of repairing them but also to losing customers. People don't return to shops that make mistakes with their planes. If you don't look clean reliable and trustworthy, very few shops will take a chance on a fresh mechanic.
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Kinda thought a 3.8 GPA and both lisences would enough for me to seem trustworthy and reliable.
 
gcd89 said:
Kinda thought a 3.8 GPA and both lisences would enough for me to seem trustworthy and reliable.
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That's book learning, has nothing to do with work. The question was do you have any prior history of jobs, hobbies, or activities that included a lot of wrench turning? Do you have proven mechanical ability (passing a class is NOT proof)? Just because you know what you're doing doesn't mean you have the feel for what you're doing and it's that feel that develops over the years that lets you know when something is about to break or if you can go at it some harder. Then there are the 3 hr fasteners, do you have the back of tricks in your pocket? Eg, "Can you remove the center forward base nut from the carb on a 1340, and how long did it take to accomplish?" I watched one guy take 2 days to get one nut out..

These are the kind of questions and doubts and with as tight as the economy is right now, shops are less willing to take that chance.

BTW, you didn't comment on what the scene in the mirror was. If you walk in with a 3.8 and look like a hippie or a bum or some self mutilated freak of piercings and ink, they'll never see the 3.8.
 
gcd89 said:
Kinda thought a 3.8 GPA and both lisences would enough for me to seem trustworthy and reliable.
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Honestly, that's only one factor.That and some other factors (neat appearance does count as Henning indicated although I'm Ok with neat facial hair, ability to communicate, and others) will get you in the door. Once you have the job, you'll probably be watched over for a while. Although I'm no A&P, that's pretty much how it goes for any job in any field.
 
gcd89 said:
Kinda thought a 3.8 GPA and both lisences would enough for me to seem trustworthy and reliable.
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I still hold the record score at my school with a 98.8 average.

I still made mistakes, and if not for some experienced guys looking over my shoulder they might have been bad. Just like a pilot's license its a license to learn.
 
Henning said:
That's book learning, has nothing to do with work. The question was do you have any prior history of jobs, hobbies, or activities that included a lot of wrench turning? Do you have proven mechanical ability (passing a class is NOT proof)? Just because you know what you're doing doesn't mean you have the feel for what you're doing and it's that feel that develops over the years that lets you know when something is about to break or if you can go at it some harder. Then there are the 3 hr fasteners, do you have the back of tricks in your pocket? Eg, "Can you remove the center forward base nut from the carb on a 1340, and how long did it take to accomplish?" I watched one guy take 2 days to get one nut out..

These are the kind of questions and doubts and with as tight as the economy is right now, shops are less willing to take that chance.

BTW, you didn't comment on what the scene in the mirror was. If you walk in with a 3.8 and look like a hippie or a bum or some self mutilated freak of piercings and ink, they'll never see the 3.8.
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Well, the closest thing I have to mechanical experience is working on guitars (lots of tiny nuts/bolts etc) but that's about it. Never really worked on cars or anytihng...

As for appearance, I've got no tattoos or piercings at all, clean shaven, and a haircut and I always dress nice on interviews, so I guess what it comes down to is my lack of mechanical experience...but that's why I went to school.

One of my classmates, a violent felon, with tattoos and no mechanical experience got a job...why can't I? :mad2::mad2:
 
Skylane81E said:
I still hold the record score at my school with a 98.8 average.

I still made mistakes, and if not for some experienced guys looking over my shoulder they might have been bad. Just like a pilot's license its a license to learn.
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I want to LEARN badly...I just can't find anyone to hire me so I CAN learn...trust me, my dream would be working at a flight school or GA place and getting to know every bolt, nut, hose and rivet of a 172 or Bonanza or even a Learjet (I mention Lears because one of the jobs I really want is with an air ambulance Lear operator). But I just can't find it. I have the enthusiasm and passion for aviation, but that doesn't seem to mean much.
 
gcd89 said:
Well, the closest thing I have to mechanical experience is working on guitars (lots of tiny nuts/bolts etc) but that's about it. Never really worked on cars or anytihng...

As for appearance, I've got no tattoos or piercings at all, clean shaven, and a haircut and I always dress nice on interviews, so I guess what it comes down to is my lack of mechanical experience...but that's why I went to school.

One of my classmates, a violent felon, with tattoos and no mechanical experience got a job...why can't I? :mad2::mad2:
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He made them a deal they couldn't refuse?:rolleyes: (If he's in a program, he might be getting some assistance, IDK). You're up in St Pete, what airports have you gone to? Which one has the EAA chapter? You have an A&P certificate and some tools, print a card & fliers and start sticking them in hangar doors and walk airports and see what's going on.
 
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gcd89 said:
I want to LEARN badly...I just can't find anyone to hire me so I CAN learn...trust me, my dream would be working at a flight school or GA place and getting to know every bolt, nut, hose and rivet of a 172 or Bonanza or even a Learjet (I mention Lears because one of the jobs I really want is with an air ambulance Lear operator). But I just can't find it. I have the enthusiasm and passion for aviation, but that doesn't seem to mean much.
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Just don't get down on yourself
 
gcd89 said:
I want to LEARN badly...I just can't find anyone to hire me so I CAN learn...trust me, my dream would be working at a flight school or GA place and getting to know every bolt, nut, hose and rivet of a 172 or Bonanza or even a Learjet (I mention Lears because one of the jobs I really want is with an air ambulance Lear operator). But I just can't find it. I have the enthusiasm and passion for aviation, but that doesn't seem to mean much.
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Here's the problem with no mechanical background at your age, it means you don't have the mechanic gene, the one that got your but spanked for taking apart an appliance by the time you were 6 (by 11 you'd be getting asked by mom to fix the same appliance). You would have had cars, motorcycles all sorts of machines which you would have disassembled, modified and reassembled by now. Your school job would have been doing something mechanical. It makes it tougher to get a small shop to hire you because you'll likely be less productive for quite a while with a higher damage rate. Not to say it's all necessarily true in your instance, but most small mechanic shop owners have the mechanic gene and look for it in whom they hire.
 
Depends on who is making the call. The local shop-owner is very conscious of the appearance of the floor mechanics, primarily because of the image that can be created with airplane owners. The best wrench in town wouldn't get a job there if he looked like a hippie or a walking advertisement for a tatoo parlor.

gcd89 said:
Kinda thought a 3.8 GPA and both lisences would enough for me to seem trustworthy and reliable.
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I disagree. Some of the best wrenches I've met were long-haired tattooed "freaks".

Mostly because they grew up poor and fixed everything in sight, and spent extra time turning wrenches on their weekend toys.

Aviation tends to run them off with our pompous Suburban white guy bad attitude, though. Agreed.

We tend to run 'em out of the flight schools when they finally have some money, too. :(
 
Also agreed that I could care less about GPA.

It's only an indicator of the ability to retain stuff long enough for a written test, in most cases.

I want to know what you've built, worked on, or accomplished.

Most of the time in the big shops the owners don't get to choose anyway, though.

The A&P/IA you get to meet and talk to.

His staff are just people wandering around the shop looking busy, trying not to make eye contact 'less the "crazy airplane owner" might start asking them questions they're not authorized by the boss to talk about.
 
denverpilot said:
I disagree. Some of the best wrenches I've met were long-haired tattooed "freaks".

Mostly because they grew up poor and fixed everything in sight, and spent extra time turning wrenches on their weekend toys.

Aviation tends to run them off with our pompous Suburban white guy bad attitude, though. Agreed.

We tend to run 'em out of the flight schools when they finally have some money, too. :(
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Not really, once you are a proven mechanic with a real track record you can look like whatever you want.
 
I got my A&P in Tulsa, OK. and had to move to Wichita, KS in order to get a job. Yes, sometimes is difficult, but for your own career, and the future of your career as A&P you will have to move. That seems to be the rule.
Try Monster.Com, there are hundred of employers in there right now looking for A&Ps. As far as the experience goes, you are a Junior Mechanic, most employers love to hire junior mechanics, people fresh from the school, people that can work overnight or weekends or holidays, try Fedex, DHL or UPS...they love to have junior mechanics working at 3 am in the morning refueling their airplanes, doing light maintenance.
Good luck
:wink2:
 
Henning said:
Not really, once you are a proven mechanic with a real track record you can look like whatever you want.
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I can agree to a point, I start looking rather freakish in my shaggy winter "trim" but nobody bats an eye.

Now if I'd walked in looking like that for starters, different story.
 
Dont try to BS your way into a job let them know you are green. Trying to do a job you have no idea what your doing will only cause damage and cost the shop $$$ the job wont last long if you do.
 
What hobbies, interests do you have? If you could have a niche job, what would it be? Sheet Metal? Welding? Powerplant? (Recip or Jet?) Avionics? Fabric & Wood? Have you considered volunteering with a restoration/museum program or CAF wing? They always need A&Ps and you get to get involved in some really cool planes and make a lot of excellent personal and professional connections.
 
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