Advice for loooooong cross-country

AvNavCom

AvNavCom

Filing Flight Plan
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GroundLoopArtiste
Hi guys,

In about a month or so I'm planning a coast-to-coast flight from the California Central Valley area to Virginia. I'll be in my Cherokee 180C, so no flight levels directly over the Rockies for me. I'm planning to take the Southern route via Phoenix and El Paso, and then essentially a great circle route in the direction of Virginia once I'm out of the mountains. I'm planning roughly 6-8 hours of flying daily for a total crossing time of about three days.

I know there are folks who have made similar treks in light aircraft. If anyone has any advice or pearls of wisdom from having done similar trips, I'd be grateful to hear them!
 
51195E5A-589C-48DF-8107-EDD162F68A7C.jpegIt’s like eating an elephant… one bite at a time. Approach EACH LEG as its own entity, analyzing the risks on their own and don’t even THINK about a schedule. If you can make the leg safely, do so. If not, don’t. It’s easy to incorporate the “to stay on schedule I gotta…” mentality. Been there, done that, learn from MY mistakes!

Be very judicious with fuel planning. Honestly, I only fly half tank legs at most usually, especially when in foreign territory. This allows for the unforseen unavailability of whatever fate throws at ya. Airports closed, fuel pumps empty or broke, card readers not working… you name it.

Absolutely most importantly, HAVE FUN! If you find yourself stressed, figure out why, and discontinue that activity! It’ll be something like worrying about weather, fuel, a maint issue or schedule. Almost guaranteed…

No pics, didn’t happen! Pictured is Helena to Chicago. Three epic days!
 
AvNavCom said:
Hi guys,

In about a month or so I'm planning a coast-to-coast flight from the California Central Valley area to Virginia. I'll be in my Cherokee 180C, so no flight levels directly over the Rockies for me. I'm planning to take the Southern route via Phoenix and El Paso, and then essentially a great circle route in the direction of Virginia once I'm out of the mountains. I'm planning roughly 6-8 hours of flying daily for a total crossing time of about three days.

I know there are folks who have made similar treks in light aircraft. If anyone has any advice or pearls of wisdom from having done similar trips, I'd be grateful to hear them!
Click to expand...
Sounds like an exciting trip! I'll probably be crossing paths with you going the exact opposite direction :) . I've done it a few times before and written about those long XC adventures from Chicago to the southwest and my experience/lessons here and here.

My recommendation, especially in the southwest by AZ/NM/El Paso is to fly really early in the day. For one, it's really GD hot there. But more importantly I found it pretty torturous with turbulence once it starts heating up. There's many times I cut it to Va speed b/c I was getting bumped around a ton.

DA is a bit more of a factor there too b/c of the heat. It's not like flying in the rockies, but if you fly midday out of Deming NM or El Paso you can expect DAs at the field of 7-8k+. For instance, right now it's particularly hot but Deming is 8200' DA and El Paso is 7900' DA :oops:

In case you haven't been, Phoenix is busy airspace buzzing with lots of small planes. I'd figure out the route you plan to take around that airspace and familiarize your the transition over PHX if you plan to use it. Also look at the weather around El Paso/Midland/etc. Every time I fly out there it seems there are near daily thunderstorms. But like any weather, YMMV.

The route from Phoenix to Tucson to El Paso is probably my favorite stretch to fly. Love the desert mountains. I'm sure you've noticed but lots of restricted areas around there so it's something to be cognizant of for routing.

I think 6-8h is totally reasonable per day. You shouldn't be too fatigued and it should give you time at your intermediate destinations to see the sights! Enjoy!
 
IFR, VFR, or a mix?
Either way, be prepared and equipped to spend a few unplanned nights in random places due to weather or other contingencies.
Plan to fuel with at least 1 hour of fuel remaining, and have a nearby alternate airport with fuel for each stop.
Bring plenty of water and a pulse oximeter especially when cruising around 10,000 MSL and higher.
 
Southern route is going to have monsoons that time of year so you'll have to plan around that. Don't fret the mountains so much with that Cherokee just follow one of the interstate routes, you could do I-80 across the Sierra at Truckee and cross the divide in Wyoming. Then just dodge the thunderstorms and tornados in the midwest.
It will be an adventure.
 
We just finished a trip from Bend, OR to Austin in our 180 hp Warrior. Have done the trip you’re talking about a handful of times.

There are few decent stops on the route for our planes. KTUS is actually decent but may be too short for your first day (Executive Air is decent, the Four Points is kinda walking distance from them and they have a restaurant in the hotel). Then again, there’s little between there and El Paso/Las Cruces.

Check out the new fight school at the east end of Las Cruces (KLRU) for self serve fuel. When leaving, expect a really, really flat climb-out if you’re taking off any time past maybe 10:00. And expect lots of bumps and mountain waves going east of there.

Precious few decent places from KLRU
east. Fort Stockton (KFST) has a new terminal and two older crew cars. Not much to do/see there but at least there are cars and hotels. Less so at any of the other paces on the route.

I agree with the observations about weather around there; anything much east of Tucson is not a lot of fun in the summer after about 10.

Safe travels!
 
MauleSkinner said:
Condom, length of surgical tubing, and a piece of plastic tubing that fits tight inside the surgical. ...
Click to expand...
Many years ago I worked as a personal attendant for a quadriplegic. Turn the condom inside out, snip off the tip, rubber band the surgical tubing to it, then "install" it. Works like a charm. :)
 
Awesome replies already! In answer to some of the questions and advice, the aircraft is IFR-capable and I'm instrument rated, but I'm not current or proficient, so I'll be VFR and staying well clear of heavy weather. Years back, I did all of my private/instrument training at COS (field elevation 6200 feet) so definitely familiar with density altitude and not flying after noon in order to avoid getting beaten to death by turbulence. I'm planning no later than 0600 launches each day, so hopefully I can be on the ground before it gets too wild.

She will have a freshly overhauled engine, which is a concern for a Maintenance Induced Failure but has the advantage of dynoing at 200+HP, which I suspect will be useful. I'll also be flying with a new GNX 375, GNC 215, and GI 275 EIS, so keeping my eyes outside the aircraft instead of playing with the new toys is a safety factor! If I can ever get my plane out of maintenance, I'm hoping to at least put a good 10-15 hours on her to shake out bugs and break in the engine before launching on such a long trip.

Love the recommendations on the travel john, condom cath, and the places to stop! My first day is looking like VIS-BXK-LRU. Second is LRU-CDS-HBZ. Third is HBZ-DVK-HEF. Given some of the suggestions, I may adjust that. All routes are planned with airports along the way. With full tanks, I'm 450lbs below max gross and planning a conservative 10 gallons/hr (real world is more like 8.5-8.9), I have more than an hour endurance left at destination. Hopefully those margins will help out too.

Really appreciate everyone chiming in. Love the trip reports from ArrowFlyer86 and all the photos! I'll try to may be get a shot or two along the way.

Edit: Can spel good
 
AvNavCom said:
Hi guys,

In about a month or so I'm planning a coast-to-coast flight from the California Central Valley area to Virginia. I'll be in my Cherokee 180C, so no flight levels directly over the Rockies for me. I'm planning to take the Southern route via Phoenix and El Paso, and then essentially a great circle route in the direction of Virginia once I'm out of the mountains. I'm planning roughly 6-8 hours of flying daily for a total crossing time of about three days.

I know there are folks who have made similar treks in light aircraft. If anyone has any advice or pearls of wisdom from having done similar trips, I'd be grateful to hear them!
Click to expand...
There are few places in west Texas to gas up. Keep an eye on winds aloft
 
I highly recommend Dumas, TX. It’s a little north of your route, but something to keep in mind if you have to divert. I got stuck AOG there for 2 days bringing the RV7 home from Phoenix. The people couldn’t have been more helpful, cheerful, polite, etc, etc.
 
Don’t let the clock/calendar dictate when and route you fly, schedule based on weather (that includes winds).
Land at airports that have maintenance shops unless you’re an AP and will be carrying your own tools.
I’ve had good luck with the southern route, try to get through the mountains in the morning.
If you’re going to leave by 6am, then that means you’ll need transportation, don’t expect ubers in these small towns.
 
Unless you just really got to go July/Aug, I would push back your dates until mid September. Less TS and cooler temps, less chance of hail damage.
 
It'll be an awesome trip! I did St. Louis to Death Valley once in my Archer and it was the trip of a lifetime.

The only thing I might add is to take plenty of water and a personal locator beacon, if you can afford one. There's a whole lot of nothin' out west and it would be comforting to know that somebody could find you relatively quickly if need be.
 
Limit the flying to 4 hours a day and be a lot more refreshed every day. I did a low pressure loop from Michigan to the Pacific NW down to GCNP to Four Corners to Texas to Michigan in a Cherokee 180D and limited the days to 4ish hours in the air. I was bright eyed and bushy tailed every morning. I've done the 8 hour day in both a Cherokee and Comanche and the next day I was not as ready to go.
 
I've done a couple cross-continental X-countries. The trip logs maybe useful:
https://www.demonick.com/flying/S43-DKX-SUA-S43/index.html
https://www.demonick.com/flying/flying.logs.NEW-S43.html

Are you going solo? Do you have any sort of auto-pilot or wing leveler? Frankly, I did some 8 hour days, solo and without AP, and they are tiring. If you will have a companion, their ability to hold course and altitude can relieve some of your workload and give you a break now and then.

Bring snacks. Turkey jerky is a good one--filling nutritious and not bladder loading. Dried fruits. You will need to keep hydrated. If you can relieve yourself in the pilot's seat, you're good to go. If not, your bladder rather than fuel may dictate stops. I suggest you test whatever bladder-relieving plan you have before you set out. I plan stops for 3 to 3.5 hour legs which give a bio-break and a chance to stretch legs. If you're solo, you can put one leg in the passenger well and kind of sprawl for a bit of comfort.

Have you considered a tool kit, spare oil, etc?

You'll have a great trip!
 
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ArrowFlyer86 said:
My recommendation, especially in the southwest by AZ/NM/El Paso is to fly really early in the day. For one, it's really GD hot there. But more importantly I found it pretty torturous with turbulence once it starts heating up. There's many times I cut it to Va speed b/c I was getting bumped around a ton.
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I agree with this. Sunrise takeoffs will be a lot smoother than after breakfast takeoffs.

The heat has started early this summer, and the monsoon season is trying to start up before schedule as well. It will be RUFF in the air, really ruff after noon. The thunderstorms are pretty weak right now and are easily navigable with visibility up to 100 miles.
 
AvNavCom said:
Hi guys,

In about a month or so I'm planning a coast-to-coast flight from the California Central Valley area to Virginia. I'll be in my Cherokee 180C, so no flight levels directly over the Rockies for me. I'm planning to take the Southern route via Phoenix and El Paso, and then essentially a great circle route in the direction of Virginia once I'm out of the mountains. I'm planning roughly 6-8 hours of flying daily for a total crossing time of about three days.

I know there are folks who have made similar treks in light aircraft. If anyone has any advice or pearls of wisdom from having done similar trips, I'd be grateful to hear them!
Click to expand...
If you cross Kentucky, stop at 0I8. We usually have the cheapest gas in the state. The door to the FBO is always open, there's water in the fridge and ice cream in the freezer, help yourself. And the keys to the courtesy car are behind the desk. Also have showers and a really comfy reclining couch if you need a nap.
 
@ArrowFlyer had a few threads on here if you search. I made the trip last fall. Then only issues we had were related to storms and one encounter with turbulence where I should have taken an Airmet Tango more seriously. That was between Phoenix and west Texas. Watch for density altitude later in the day, especially after refueling. Fun trip!
 
Half Fast said:
Prefab versions are available. ...
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No doubt. Yet the guy I worked for back in the 1980s was frugal. He would reuse the bag & surgical tubing, and buy regular old condoms in bulk. Cheaper that way. More precisely, he'd have me buy them for him. Buying a 100-pack of condoms at the store, I got some amusing comments like, "big weekend coming up, eh?" :p
 
I don't have much advice for the mountain west, but for long, multi-leg trips I limit myself to 3 hour legs. Two legs a day is relatively easy and will get you a long way. Three legs is doable, but gets old real fast. Stay hydrated, as altitude sucks the water out of you. But keep the legs 3 hours or less...because hydration will eventually require relief! During the summer, flying in the early mornings (I hate getting up at the crack of dawn) is a must to avoid buildups and air mass thunderstorms. In the south, the skies can start to get a bit angry by 1-2 pm, and downright nasty by 4-5 pm. The good news is that in summer, it's VFR most of the time.
 
BTW: you say your plane is IFR capable and you're certified but not current/proficient. I encourage you to try and get proficient before the trip: it offers lots more options. For example, crossing over the LA basin IFR would be a lot more comfortable, IMHO, than either crossing it VFR or going the direct route to KBXK you propose; the latter crosses several MOAs and restricted areas (at least several of which are "unlimited/continuous"). Plus with the basin's "June gloom" not just happening in June, it's nice to have options.

Aside from the LA basin issue, being IFR allows you to climb above the inevitable puffies across the midwest at that time of year. It's way cooler, less turbulent, and safer to be above the tops of the "base" layer of broken stuff and navigating around the buildups. Yeah, you can do it VFR much of the time (and often can legally get above and below them) but being able to reliably get above and below that stuff is a plus, even if you never plan to shoot an approach. Every year when we go to OSH from TX, we typically start the day either clear or with stuff at maybe 4,000ft and by the end of the day we're navigating buildup while cruising at 11-13K. A LOT smoother and cooler there than below the bases, which also get higher as the day progresses.

Not sure how much long XC you've done but consider targeting fuel stops that have maintenance services listed in their AirNav page, as a backup. That isn't a perfect resource but it helps (I've noticed that a place with "Airframe - None/Powerplant - None" listed but with a flight school or aircraft rental will often have at least an emergency option). Also, consider airports physically close to the city they serve; you mention KLRU as an overnight but that's pretty far from Las Cruces proper and its hotels. We've never stayed there when flying but I bet it's a pretty big Uber ride to a decent hotel from the airport. And small towns don't always have Uber/Lyft, or even cabs. Ideally, call the FBOs where you're planning to go overnight to see about transportation options.
 
If your trip thru Texas happened to be today, you would find weather on the northern routes. You would do good to create a list of potential airports with on field restaurants. Good FBOs are all over this area, but KDHT and KSJT stand out as stops with good food if your route requires deviation.
 
@AvNavCom - curiosity / jealousy question. Are you flying alone? This sounds epic!

15 hrs in the next month and then this trip . . . I'm guessing your kids are grown or I'm so doing it wrong. I'm envious of your ability to make time for this adventure.
 
New Mexico can be brutal mid day. I had to throttle back while crossing out of El Paso due to turbulence. Might be good to have oxygen if you will be flying at 8k+ in the high desert for a while. It will keep you more refreshed. AZ airspace is busy. Enjoy the journey!
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
@AvNavCom - curiosity / jealousy question. Are you flying alone? This sounds epic!

15 hrs in the next month and then this trip . . . I'm guessing your kids are grown or I'm so doing it wrong. I'm envious of your ability to make time for this adventure.
Click to expand...

I am going to be flying this one alone, which is good for comfort but bad for fatigue and have a safety back-up. If I ever get her back from the shop, she'll have a top-notch GPS (GNX-375), an engine monitor, and new fuel digital probes, so I'm hoping that some of the headwork calculating fuel remaining and endurance will be easier. What I won't have is any kind of autopilot or wing leveler, and I'll be flying steam gauges (thankfully, just rearranged into a standard configuration), so the advice from folks in the thread about shorter legs to avoid fatigue is well-taken. Good food, hydration, and oxygen have been on my mind for sure. Personal beacon will be clipped to my body.

To answer your question, I'm married but no kids, which simplifies things quite a bit. I am active-duty and enjoying one of the Navy's classic coast-to-coast assignment changes, which is the reason for the trip as I relocate my plane to its new (and hopefully final) home in Manassas. The ability to fly those hours is mostly a combination of weekend time and taking some leave, along with allowable travel time for the move given to me by the Navy. She will have a newly overhauled engine, so for safety I really need to do all of my post-maintenance checks and engine break-in before launching on such a long multi-day cross-country. Those hours need to be flown regardless of how convenient they are, so I'm dedicating time for them already. Better to find the loose hoses now!

The trip itself is about 3 days of flying, but I've budgeted about a week, with plenty of flex on the back end if I need a few more days. I have made a commitment to myself that I will not fly based on clock/calendar. Happily, my wife is supportive as her constant listening to me about various aviation things has piqued her interest. About a year or so ago she mentioned possibly getting her own license, and recently that has become "when I get my pilot's license...". Apparently my Cherokee has also become "our" plane in the last few months. Haha!

Appreciate the thoughts about getting IFR current again. Not sure I'll have the time between now and then, but worth thinking about for sure. I plan to avoid the L.A. basin almost entirely with my route. I'm sure there's some sort of elegant way to put my SkyVector course into this post, but I'm not smart enough to figure it out. You can find it here though. Planning a fuel stop in BXK after wandering my way around all the MOA/Restricted/Prohibited areas at 9500ft. I had initially intended to swing south to avoid the Phoenix Class B and then go relatively direct to LRU, but after having read the excellent advice to stay near major roads through the mountains, I think I'll go slightly more southward and follow I-10 over Tucson and thence out to my stop for the night at DMN, which appears to be within walking distance of an only mildly disreputable motel. Definitely appreciate the reality check LRU being a little too far from the town!

I have read and appreciated every post! Thanks to everyone who took the time to give me thoughts and ideas, and especially the offer of free ice-cream in Kentucky. I may deviate for that alone! I'll be sure to post some sort of trip log, either as I go or once I'm in Virginia. What a great community. Should have joined years ago.
 
Are you alone or with family/friends? 6-8 hours in a Cherokee (or most GA aircraft for that matter) per day for several days is rough. I'd do it if it's just one day but when I do multi-day trips, I keep it to 6 hours max, preferably more like 4-6. But I guess everyone's tolerance level is different.
 
Plenty of good advice, I’ll just sum up points that I think are important, useful. Fly early, follow main roads(especially out west where airports are more likely), small airports (where there are courtesy cars, cheaper gas, helpful local pilots), keep route options open(weather). You’re flying with a tailwind which really helps when one has a 120kt plane, big difference between ground speeds of 100kt and 140kts. I love motel 6’s since I can make a reservation nite before, but cancel easily if I have a change of plans. A lot of pilots will only stop at bigger airports, I’ve found that smaller airports are much more accommodating. There always seems to be someone who can change a tire, fabricate a part, give a lift, etc. One of the most enjoyable things on a cross country like your planning, is to meet the kindest, most helpful people at smaller airports. Good luck, I’m sure you’ll enjoy.
 
Sounds like an awesome trip.

I’d bring some extra water, oil, oil filter, nose and main wheel tube, some basic tools, portable air compressor (like a small hand power tool one) and cash in case you need to pay for mx or fuel by cash.

I’d also only fly during the day VFR, you can even have a tent in case you need to divert and stay the night somewhere, extra food can be helpful in those situations too.

Don’t be afraid to communicate things you need to ATC as well and on 121.5 if needed, commercial traffic above might be able to relay messages too.

Have fun, take photos, and try to visit a few places along the way. If you need help or a mechanic somewhere, just make a thread here, it’s likely someone will reach out.
 
Reach out… I’m up for an air trip! Ha!

Mods: how do I set notifications?
 
There's a great temptation to fly direct between waypoints. When the weather or terrain is "iffy" in any way, consider flying airport to airport for the markedly increased options if you run into any kind of problem, keeping in mind that the airport you already flew over may the best option even if it means going backwards on your route. You'd be surprised how little time it adds to the trip (e.g. a few minutes).

If the weather is "iffy", I'll sometimes reserve a car at the midpoint or where I might expect the weather to be "iffyer". There's usually no fee for a reservation and it just gives you one more convenient "out" on the trip.
 
mandm said:
Sounds like an awesome trip.

I’d bring some extra water, oil, oil filter, nose and main wheel tube, some basic tools, portable air compressor (like a small hand power tool one) and cash in case you need to pay for mx or fuel by cash.

I’d also only fly during the day VFR, you can even have a tent in case you need to divert and stay the night somewhere, extra food can be helpful in those situations too.

Don’t be afraid to communicate things you need to ATC as well and on 121.5 if needed, commercial traffic above might be able to relay messages too.

Have fun, take photos, and try to visit a few places along the way. If you need help or a mechanic somewhere, just make a thread here, it’s likely someone will reach out.
Click to expand...
Advantage…cherokee uses same tire on all three wheels. Publish your N number here so we can track your adventure and keep an eye out if you need assistance. Some here will object, your decision. At least make sure your wife keeps track.
 
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I flew from the CA Central Valley to the east coast (missed it by THIIISSS much) and back two years ago, VFR. A similar trip but my situation was a little different.

Differences are:
- flying a light sport homebuilt with short legs
- had physical issues which limited my daily time in the cockpit
- had financial limitations that affected many decisions
- had no real understanding of the weather on the other side of the Sierras. Because of this I made very conservative decisions
- I am very risk adverse, so sat on the ground when others may have flown

I wrote a daily blog for my own reasons. No one else reads by blog but a few close friends and family. I just wanted to write down what happened each day so I wouldn't forget the experience. Two years later I am so glad I did this because I really enjoy going back and reading my ordeal. And for me, it was an ordeal. Not likely the same for others though.

You may find a few useful points in the travelogue:

https://garyscircumnavigation.blogspot.com/2021/05/day-one-pine-mountain-lake-to-kingman.html
 
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