ADS-B Ignorant, Please Help with upgrade Options

James331 said:
That doesn't work, both the BARR request (which all my planes have been on, even at the source level) or the call sign, if you have ADSB or mode S, you're transmitting in the clear to any azzhat with a antenna, give me a blocked tailnumber and I'll tell you where it's been.
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Doesn't even have to be an "azzhat". LOL. People don't get this part, but we keep saying it...

It's an insecure data system transmitting a number that directly correlates to a tail number. The receiver costs $25. Places like FlightAware offer the ability to integrate thousands of cheap receivers into their overall picture in near real-time. And do it already.

There is no technological solution to the problem because the system was engineered poorly, even for the era in which it was engineered.

One of the helpful but not perfect answers is to stop sending the aircraft specific ID when squawking VFR, but only one manufacturer's product did/does that and they're taking flack for it from the people who created the insecure, mis-engineered RF data system.

The number used over the air should have continued to be assigned at departure. There's zero safety reason to identify the specific aircraft beyond one flight with the same over the air identifier.
 
denverpilot said:
Doesn't even have to be an "azzhat". LOL. People don't get this part, but we keep saying it...

It's an insecure data system transmitting a number that directly correlates to a tail number. The receiver costs $25. Places like FlightAware offer the ability to integrate thousands of cheap receivers into their overall picture in near real-time. And do it already.

There is no technological solution to the problem because the system was engineered poorly, even for the era in which it was engineered.

One of the helpful but not perfect answers is to stop sending the aircraft specific ID when squawking VFR, but only one manufacturer's product did/does that and they're taking flack for it from the people who created the insecure, mis-engineered RF data system.

The number used over the air should have continued to be assigned at departure. There's zero safety reason to identify the specific aircraft beyond one flight with the same over the air identifier.
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Agreed 100%

Hope navworx worx it out, or someone else takes that idea and runs with it
 
denverpilot said:
The number used over the air should have continued to be assigned at departure. There's zero safety reason to identify the specific aircraft beyond one flight with the same over the air identifier.
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It was done so that foreign aircraft that use out ATC system could be sent a bill.

How many decades have other countries gotten free GPS from the USA?
 
bnt83 said:
It was done so that foreign aircraft that use out ATC system could be sent a bill.

How many decades have other countries gotten free GPS from the USA?
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Short sighted way to look at it. How much money have American companies made selling GPS gear all over the world?

We invented the Internet too... some things are best given freely....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bnt83 said:
It was done so that foreign aircraft that use out ATC system could be sent a bill.

How many decades have other countries gotten free GPS from the USA?
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Lolz, if you believe that got a bridge to sell ya!

Read up on the mass survalance, go watch that Snowden movie, check out wikileaks and get back to be on that fairy tail :)
 
James... Despite your signature, I promise you that law enforcement and intelligence agencies don't take a deep personal interest in your life.
 
ircphoenix said:
James... Despite your signature, I promise you that law enforcement and intelligence agencies don't take a deep personal interest in your life.
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Then why do they feel the need to monitor everyone and know everything?

And I don't think it's personal, they are "just doing their job"
 
James331 said:
Then why do they feel the need to monitor everyone and know everything?

And I don't think it's personal, they are "just doing their job"
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I'll use a contemporary example.

We received a burglary call. We got 1 in custody. One got away. The next day we got a call of other suspects in the neighborhood. By the time we got there and got good information, the suspects were gone. However, due to license plate readers, we were able to track down the vehicle being used in the crimes and tied them to a burglary ring.

Now, trying to do that as early as 2 years ago would have been impossible for us. Now it's not. The readers in our area total out at about 300,000 reads a day. They're amazing tools for apprehending criminals. We've yet to harass a poor law abiding citizen who has done nothing wrong.

Despite the license plate readers, I can find out far more info about people using Google than I can using most LE databases.

There is too much data out there for any law enforcement or intelligence agency to randomly target and harass anyone. Or to just mindlessly sift through their underwear drawers looking for infractions. There's such a thing as healthy paranoia. There's also such a thing as being crazy. LoL
 
ircphoenix said:
I'll use a contemporary example.

We received a burglary call. We got 1 in custody. One got away. The next day we got a call of other suspects in the neighborhood. By the time we got there and got good information, the suspects were gone. However, due to license plate readers, we were able to track down the vehicle being used in the crimes and tied them to a burglary ring.

Now, trying to do that as early as 2 years ago would have been impossible for us. Now it's not. The readers in our area total out at about 300,000 reads a day. They're amazing tools for apprehending criminals. We've yet to harass a poor law abiding citizen who has done nothing wrong.

Despite the license plate readers, I can find out far more info about people using Google than I can using most LE databases.

There is too much data out there for any law enforcement or intelligence agency to randomly target and harass anyone. Or to just mindlessly sift through their underwear drawers looking for infractions. There's such a thing as healthy paranoia. There's also such a thing as being crazy. LoL
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Gotcha, are you of the thinking that it's ok to imprision or execute a innocent man if it puts X amount of guilty ones away?
 
bnt83 said:
It was done so that foreign aircraft that use out ATC system could be sent a bill.

How many decades have other countries gotten free GPS from the USA?
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Gosh, couldn't possibly write down the tail/callsign and bill that... that never worked... for decades....

Sorry, not buying that the entirety of the engineering design decision to broadcast that number and mandate it by law to be installed in virtually every aircraft, was simply to assist in billing. All you have to do is write down / capture the callsign for that.

One could argue that someone might use someone else's callsign, but that's 100% possible for the bad players in ADS-B, also.

Not to mention those who could easily inject flights that aren't even occurring, with the system having no authentication of the data.

Thing is a bad joke, engineering-wise.
 
ircphoenix said:
Nope. Take your straw man elsewhere.
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Sorry bud, but that's the direction you were heading.

Spend a little time on wikileaks and let me know if you still have the warm fuzzies about the government keeping tabs on everyone.
 
James331 said:
Sorry bud, but that's the direction you were heading.

Spend a little time on wikileaks and let me know if you still have the warm fuzzies about the government keeping tabs on everyone.
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No. It wasn't. It was a straw man. Justified by slippery slope. Two logical fallacies.
 
ircphoenix said:
No. It wasn't. It was a straw man. Justified by slippery slope. Two logical fallacies.
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However poorly someone might argue it online, databasing the whereabouts of every person and thing at all times, isn't a good idea.

Or as one of my software professors who was so old she wrote ADA code for DoD before modern computing existed said, "Think hard about what you put in databases. If it doesn't need to be in one, don't put the data there." She went on to suggest that databases regularly get merged and the merge creates a picture that may have been clouded by normal human decency not to feel a need to know everything about their neighbor, and certainly no easy way to look it all up.

She warned against it to every CS student at the college, almost 30 years ago. Nobody listened, of course.

Remember, it was well meaning idiots in New Mexico using database merges that got Martha King held on the ground at gunpoint by a County Sheriff.

They didn't tell said Sheriff that they came to their conclusions about the aircraft and possible nefarious activities by database dumbassery.

They just told him the people in the airplane met the profile of drug runners and therefore may be armed and dangerous.

An OUTER JOIN in SQL is a really damn stupid way to almost get someone killed.
 
denverpilot said:
... as one of my software professors who was so old she wrote ADA code for DoD before modern computing existed ...
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dammit Nate, you really trying to make me feel ancient? I just tossed these while cleaning off the lower dusty shelves of my book case.

50940775490__022CBEA4-2011-4588-87F5-A9C40728D31D.JPG

denverpilot said:
An OUTER JOIN in SQL is a really damn stupid way to almost get someone killed.
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Do not fear the outer join, as it can only almost kill you. The cartesian join will certainly cause death while waiting for results. :)
 
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