Accidents giving GA a bad name

A_Valkyrie

A_Valkyrie

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A_Valkyrie
I don't know if it is because of all the flying facebook groups I am in or what, but it seems that I have been seeing crash after crash report show up on my feed. I am not sure if that is just how things are or if this summer has more crashes/fatalities than usual. This is especially true with Oshkosh having multiple accidents and even fatalities with an airplane enroute.

While I feel bad for those who have lost loved ones first and foremost, I also feel it reflects poorly on GA as a whole. I am afraid people will see it as dangerous or something that needs tighter restrictions. This hits especially close to home because a friend of mine interested in aviation will not fly because of safety worries.

What do you guys think?
 
It sure don't help. Especially ones that hurt people and property on the ground. And aviation entities that don't like GA. Just gives them more ammo to plead their case.
 
Look at the NTSB website sometime. There are several crashes a day. Typically more than five, but less than ten if memory serves me right. Oshkosh/SNF especially seem to highlight crashes since so many people are heading there.
 
Have you seen all the car crashes that happen? I'm more afraid of driving than I am of flying. Everything has its risks. As pilots, we do everything we can to mitigate these risks and threats.
 
luvflyin said:
It sure don't help. Especially ones that hurt people and property on the ground. And aviation entities that don't like GA. Just gives them more ammo to plead their case.
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Yes, my primary concern is accidents that results in injury or death to the people in the plane and/or the ground. It is always hard to read reports on that stuff
 
luvflyin said:
... Just gives them more ammo to plead their case.
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It also gives uneasy spouses more ammo... that was my biggest roadblock when I was first taking lessons. It doesn't help that my CFI was just in a plane crash a couple weeks ago with one of his other students. :/ Although, honestly, that one had even me second guessing things. But, as @jordane93 said, everything has risks and this one just happens to be worth it to me.
 
jordane93 said:
Have you seen all the car crashes that happen? I'm more afraid of driving than I am of flying. Everything has its risks. As pilots, we do everything we can to mitigate these risks and threats.
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I think the public as a whole just understands that car crashes happen and they are used to it. As anybody here not been in a car accident?

Aviation accidents always get more media attention than car accidents. It may have something to do with GA being perceived as more of a hobby than anything "useful"
 
Most people only digest whats put immediately in front of them. Too much critical thinking involved in consideration of statistics and probability.
 
A_Valkyrie said:
I don't know if it is because of all the flying facebook groups I am in or what, but it seems that I have been seeing crash after crash report show up on my feed. I am not sure if that is just how things are or if this summer has more crashes/fatalities than usual. This is especially true with Oshkosh having multiple accidents and even fatalities with an airplane enroute.

While I feel bad for those who have lost loved ones first and foremost, I also feel it reflects poorly on GA as a whole. I am afraid people will see it as dangerous or something that needs tighter restrictions. This hits especially close to home because a friend of mine interested in aviation will not fly because of safety worries.

What do you guys think?
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This is a years-old conversation.

It gets more highlight around Oshkosh time because of the press exposure to GA.
Every year we lose a couple of planes on the way to the show, a couple at the show, and a couple of more on the way home. It just goes along with the massive influx.

How many do we lose ON THE ROAD, on the way to the show, as well? I saw a big accident on 41, on the way up, and another near Fond-Du-Lac on the way home.
 
I think you would have to crash and kill everyone on board two 747's each week to equal the automobile fatalities in the US.
 
If you look back at NTSB probable cause reports from past years, the majority of all accidents could have been prevented. Most of the public believes these accidents are caused by "small airplanes are dangerous" which there certainly are risks, but human error is many times the root cause.
 
This is the same for having a national news, as people we tend to localize everything.

When national news (of 330 million people) is localized to a neighborhood way of thinking, even the biggest neighborhood of 20.1 million people (New York metro area) is still having 93% of the country not there. Hey, if it's happening in Des Moines, IA, it's probably happening here too!

Then, there is the "narrative," where certain news stories go to the top of the list and are presented as a story, which excludes other stories. Because a story is featured, it must be important, so keep featuring it, it becomes "fact" that we have a problem, while non-stories aren't a problem anymore.

So, on that front, it's up to us to be reporters, and just look at the facts. It seems that the reporters and editors can't be trusted, and are pushing a story (see the "news" of the last week, which will soon fade, because it doesn't fit the narrative, and if they don't report it, it's not important, right?).

Oh yeah, Facebook is part of that too. (Inter)National becomes local.
 
Can't compare GA to autos. There are WAY more autos being driven than airplanes being flown. Everything has risk, I remeber a guy got killed by a cow in his sleep. Yep a cow fell through his roof and crushed him.

Nothing is immune to accidents and fatalities. Driving is just a widely excepted means of travel and considered a necessity. Flying...not so much. But aviation is also inherently risky given the environment it happens in.

But the media will blow up a plane crash cause they barely happen, as compared to car crashes. If they showed every car crash the news would be nothing but car crashes.

And who cares if GA is dying or has a bad name. You and i are still gonna fly whether GA has a bad name or not. Makes no difference to me. There will always be those trying to take away what others want in any facet of life. Just enjoy what you have, don't take over the top chances, keep fuel in your plane and stay out of storms and enjoy ga.
 
It doesn't help that the media makes a big to-do over aviation accidents while glossing over the carnage on the highways.
 
Yeah but think, compared to auto accidents aviation accidents rarely happen so it's news worthy. We are all immune to seeing auto accidents. Now granted they do always mess up the details and try to make it worse than it is sometimes.
 
I think if we all flew as much as we drove out vehicles, our safety record would be much better also.
 
MickYoumans said:
I think you would have to crash and kill everyone on board two 747's each week to equal the automobile fatalities in the US.
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Silly to compare aircraft accidents to auto accidents. Millions of autos on the roads in all weather compared to a dwindlingGA aircraft inventory. If you read the accident reports both kinds usually occur due to careless pilots , poorly trained pilots, bad drivers, and or bad maintence on the car or the plane. I think aircraft accidents in GA will increase as the old aircraft get even older and good mechanics keep disappearing as they already are.
 
Right, for most people, driving is the statistically most dangerous thing we ever do...but we don't even think twice about that. Its like people who go to the beach and don't get into the water because of sharks.

General aviation is a hobby for me and in talking to people (not into aviation) many think it is a big risky, dangerous thing. Usually the first or second question is if I have ever crashed or am worried about crashing. I understand aviation can be dangerous and requires responsibility and good judgement, but I think the general notion that it is some dare-devil sport hurts the community.

Luckily, I think we are all doing our part when we take passengers up and give them a safe/fun ride.
 
midcap said:
I think if we all flew as much as we drove out vehicles, our safety record would be much better also.
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Especially low time instrument ppl pilots who become unglued in bad weather and buy the ranch usually taking others with them.
 
We average 117 deaths PER DAY from auto wrecks. Maybe it is silly to compare that to aviation, but that number is still staggering to me. The sad part is we do so little to educate drivers to help improve the auto accident rate.
 
If only pilots would have a little more common sense and follow these simple rules:
(preaching mostly to the converted, I know)
  • Don't fly into thunderstorms.
  • Keep an eagle eye on airspeed/AOA in the pattern; make shallow turns; sterile cockpit in pattern/landing phase.
  • Announce positions in the pattern/near the airport with accuracy.
  • 1/2 hour reserve fuel at the bare minimum!
  • Don't get complacent about w/b and max gross weight.
  • Eyes outside, whenever possible.
  • Be fanatic about maintenance and inspections.
  • Fly within your personal limitations as far as crosswinds, runway length, etc.
  • If VFR, have a plan if you should find yourself in IMC.
Agreed, "plane falling from the sky" gets far more play on the local news than some poor sap who ends up as a car crash fatality.
 
Been like this probably since the beginning, actually worse at the beginning. But that was because pilots were learning slowly at first about many things we take for granted today. Like others have said, usually the same causes too, weather, fuel exhaustion, etc. One thing that is different today is social media and how quickly anything can get around. Nothing new, airplane accidents been occurring for decades.
 
simtech said:
Can't compare GA to autos. There are WAY more autos being driven than airplanes being flown. Everything has risk, I remeber a guy got killed by a cow in his sleep. Yep a cow fell through his roof and crushed him.
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Yep. And there are way more cows than planes. I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.
 
A_Valkyrie said:
I think the public as a whole just understands that car crashes happen and they are used to it. As anybody here not been in a car accident?
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(Knock on wood) I haven't been in a car accident and it's not because of my "Superior" driving skills it's average at best. I believe it's just not my time to go yet!


SoCal RV Flyer said:
If only pilots would have a little more common sense and follow these simple rules:
(preaching mostly to the converted, I know)
  • Don't fly into thunderstorms.
  • Keep an eagle eye on airspeed/AOA in the pattern; make shallow turns; sterile cockpit in pattern/landing phase.
  • Announce positions in the pattern/near the airport with accuracy.
  • 1/2 hour reserve fuel at the bare minimum!
  • Don't get complacent about w/b and max gross weight.
  • Eyes outside, whenever possible.
  • Be fanatic about maintenance and inspections.
  • Fly within your personal limitations as far as crosswinds, runway length, etc.
  • If VFR, have a plan if you should find yourself in IMC.
Agreed, "plane falling from the sky" gets far more play on the local news than some poor sap who ends up as a car crash fatality.
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I really wish it was that "Cut and dry" but pilots with 1,000's of hours die as well. Airplanes break as well for no good reason especially upon take off.

Do you think it's possible that the FAA can't determine the real cause of an accident so they will just label it something?
 
Is there really that much of a problem though? I know one guy who's outright afraid to fly and everyone else thinks it's pretty cool and wants to go for a ride someday.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Especially low time instrument ppl pilots who become unglued in bad weather and buy the ranch usually taking others with them.
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That's the whole reason why when I get an instrument rating I am never going to fly in IMC.

If the weather sucks, I'll wait it out.
 
Ryanb said:
If you look back at NTSB probable cause reports from past years, the majority of all accidents could have been prevented. Most of the public believes these accidents are caused by "small airplanes are dangerous" which there certainly are risks, but human error is many times the root cause.
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I think there is also an impression that "could have been prevented" means the pilot was stupid or reckless. In many cases the root cause may have been human error at some point in the chain, but that may just mean the pilot got focused on the wrong piece of the emergency at a bad instance. We can learn something from their mistakes, but it does not mean that something specific can be done to correct it for all futures flights across the board.
 
simtech said:
I remeber a guy got killed by a cow in his sleep. Yep a cow fell through his roof and crushed him..
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Knew a guy in the service who said that's how he wanted to go, except by an elephant while he was having sex with a gorgeous woman and about to have an orgasm, elephant just sit on them and squash 'em. His words, not mine. Sorry for the thread drift. :D
 
simtech said:
Can't compare GA to autos. There are WAY more autos being driven than airplanes being flown. Everything has risk, I remeber a guy got killed by a cow in his sleep. Yep a cow fell through his roof and crushed him.
Click to expand...
How the EFF does that happen........
 
It seems as if there are frequently car crashes on the local news, especially if there are fatalities or if they cause a large traffic jam. I have always thought it was pointless to compare airplane crashes to car crashes since so many more people drive than fly in small airplanes. Besides, driving is considered a necessity in most places.
 
PPC1052 said:
Yep. And there are way more cows than planes. I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.
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hahaha Point was everything in life has its risk from just being alive doing nothing to skydiving out of a good plane. Nothing goes without risk, even the most mundane thing. But I know you knew this..sheesh
 
simtech said:
hahaha Point was everything in life has its risk from just being alive doing nothing to skydiving out of a good plane. Nothing goes without risk, even the most mundane thing. But I know you knew this..sheesh
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Oh, I didn't mean anything of substance. Nor was I trying to argue with your points. I was just trying to be funny.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I really wish it was that "Cut and dry" but pilots with 1,000's of hours die as well. Airplanes break as well for no good reason especially upon take off.
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True. That's my worst fear, no power at 300' AGL on the climb-out. But I think better maintenance would reduce this type of accident.

It's not always the case, but I'm sure a few really high-hour pilots fall into the trap of complacency, or feel they can handle any situation because of experience.
 
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