Accidentally had a runway incurrence today

[Darsh]

Flew into KPWK today and was cleared to land runway 16. Landed fine and everything(greaser may I add), and was cleared to taxi back via Bravo, Echo, Kilo. I turned onto what I thought was Kilo, and noticed that the lines were striped, and not a solid yellow. Advised ATC of my mistake, the dude was nice about it and just said not a problem, take your next left and taxi back. Moral of the story study your AF/D closely!

Edit: It was Kilo Echo Bravo that was the clearance. That's my bad. Hell might even be part of the problem.

 

[mikea]

I did something similar the first time I landed at PWK, only when I turned the wrong way I held short of the other runway and confessed. I held up some taxiing traffic, but the tower guided me with progressive taxi through a 180 to where I wanted to go.

 

[Telemakhos]

I did the same thing as a student at PWK. almost exactly.
Now, whenever I'm at an unfamiliar airport and there isn't much traffic, I always ask for a progressive taxi upon landing. Why not? the A/FD is great, and I trust myself with one, but like the saying goes, "trust but verify."

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Did you have an airport diagram out?
I used to have the paper one out, on final (and be looking at the arrangement of exits) now I load the diagram on the ipad so once I have landing assured it is a couple of jabs from approach plate to apt diagram.
Not a panacea, but it has helped.

 

[gprellwitz]

Safe-taxi on a Garmin or geo-referenced plates on a tablet can help too. But the best is still probably asking for progressive instructions.

 

[roncachamp]

Flew into KPWK today and was cleared to land runway 16. Landed fine and everything(greaser may I add), and was cleared to taxi back via Bravo, Echo, Kilo. I turned onto what I thought was Kilo, and noticed that the lines were striped, and not a solid yellow. Advised ATC of my mistake, the dude was nice about it and just said not a problem, take your next left and taxi back. Moral of the story study your AF/D closely!

Runway 16 and taxiway Bravo do not intersect.

 

[wsuffa]

I flew out of OWD yesterday morning. The hold short line for 35 is back a ways on the taxiway. I stopped at the right place, but the plane behind me (a CG aux flight) pulled all the way up to the runway intersection before calling ready. Tower admonished him for crossing the hold-short line. Good thing a wide-wingspan plane wasn't coming in....

 

[PittsDriver]

Runway 16 and taxiway Bravo do not intersect.

Taxi via kilo, echo, bravo would have made more sense. But in any event, was this really a runway incursion and what actually defines one for The Man?

 

[roncachamp]

But in any event, was this really a runway incursion and what actually defines one for The Man?

Yes, apparently. A runway incursion is:

“Any occurrence at an aerodrome involving the incorrect presence of an aircraft, vehicle, or person on the protected area of a surface designated for the landing and take-off of aircraft.”

 

[Anthony]

Sorry, I just can't get used to "line up and wait". Makes my skin crawl.

 

[bigred177]

I flew out of OWD yesterday morning. The hold short line for 35 is back a ways on the taxiway. I stopped at the right place, but the plane behind me (a CG aux flight) pulled all the way up to the runway intersection before calling ready. Tower admonished him for crossing the hold-short line. Good thing a wide-wingspan plane wasn't coming in....

I almost did that once. After they moved to hold short lines back to the most illogical place on this taxiway. It was night and I was still moving fairly quickly when my not so good landing light illuminated it. Shifted some stuff forward in the cabin but I got the front wheel stopped on the hold-short line.

 

[EdFred]

I don't understand how you were cleared to taxi from 16 on Bravo, when Bravo stops at 12/30

 

[roncachamp]

I almost did that once. After they moved to hold short lines back to the most illogical place on this taxiway.

If the taxiway had been constructed parallel to the runway the hold short lines wouldn't have been put in that "illogical" place.

 

[bigred177]

If the taxiway had been constructed parallel to the runway the hold short lines wouldn't have been put in that "illogical" place.

It was parallel. But when they moved the HS line back it put it dang near right at the inner edge of the taxiway.

I just was expecting to be able to complete my turn before the line. Plus it was at night with a not very good light.

 

[ajstoner21]

I've been involved in a runway incursion once. Wasn't my fault. It was at night, and apparently one of the taxiways arent lit, and the tower cleared some landing regional jet to take the non-lit taxiway, and they turned on the lit taxiway I was on. I ended up having to do a 180 and go another way. Accidents happen, just hope they arent serious.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I don't understand how you were cleared to taxi from 16 on Bravo, when Bravo stops at 12/30

Me either.

"Unable"

 

[roncachamp]

It was parallel. But when they moved the HS line back it put it dang near right at the inner edge of the taxiway.

Doesn't look parallel to me. It looks like the taxiway takes a dogleg toward runway 35 as it approaches the end, which requires the hold short point to be placed where it is to keep aircraft out of the runway safety area until they can proceed on to the runway.

 

[wsuffa]

Doesn't look parallel to me. It looks like the taxiway takes a dogleg toward runway 35 as it approaches the end, which requires the hold short point to be placed where it is to keep aircraft out of the runway safety area until they can proceed on to the runway.

Correct. That is the issue. ANd if you're looking when you taxi, you'll see the turn.

 

[rottydaddy]

Flew into KPWK today and was cleared to land runway 16. Landed fine and everything(greaser may I add), and was cleared to taxi back via Bravo, Echo, Kilo. I turned onto what I thought was Kilo, and noticed that the lines were striped, and not a solid yellow. Advised ATC of my mistake, the dude was nice about it and just said not a problem, take your next left and taxi back. Moral of the story study your AF/D closely!

Pardon my being a smart-aleck, but I'd say the real moral is to study your AIM closely, until you learn to recognize all the various markings and signs!:wink2:

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Last weekend, during my second solo cross country - but my FIRST solo cross country to a towered airport over 100 miles away - something funny happened. I train out of a non-towered airport and am very nervous with ATC.

I landed, and the tower started giving me taxi instructions during the flare / touchdown when I could not write anything on paper for the read back, and was mentally busy landing the airplane.

You see, I wasn't expecting taxi instructions until I was clear of the active runway and had been instructed to switch frequencies to ground, and had a pencil and paper handy.

So I asked them to repeat their taxi instructions. Because I had already annoyed them and "messed up" my entrance - sort of - into their airport and told them student pilot, this different voice comes on the radio. He is younger and says something to me like "go to the big building and take a right." It was hilarious.

I got the progressive taxi without even asking for it.

 

[BillTIZ]

Even if the tower forgives you on the radio, I'd still file the NASA form to identify the problem.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I landed, and the tower started giving me taxi instructions during the flare / touchdown when I could not write anything on paper for the read back, and was mentally busy landing the airplane.

You see, I wasn't expecting taxi instructions until I was clear of the active runway and had been instructed to switch frequencies to ground, and had a pencil and paper handy.

I had something similar happen the other day....I think it was at Prescott, AZ.....I was landing in the Duchess and just as I start to flare, tower is telling me to exit at a given intersection. I'm thinkin' 'I haven't even landed yet!'

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I landed, and the tower started giving me taxi instructions during the flare / touchdown when I could not write anything on paper for the read back, and was mentally busy landing the airplane.

You see, I wasn't expecting taxi instructions until I was clear of the active runway and had been instructed to switch frequencies to ground, and had a pencil and paper handy.

So I asked them to repeat their taxi instructions. Because I had already annoyed them and "messed up" my entrance - sort of - into their airport and told them student pilot, this different voice comes on the radio. He is younger and says something to me like "go to the big building and take a right." It was hilarious.

I got the progressive taxi without even asking for it.

The old guy shoulda known better than to give taxi instructions to a single-pilot aircraft at that particular point in time... Shame on him.

 

[COFlyBoy]

So just wondering...shouldn't the title of this thread be: "Accidentally incurred a runway today"?

 

[Satchmo10th]

I did the same thing once although Im still not sure if it was myself or the controller who was at fault.

I was flying into KHGR from the south, made left base for 27 and came to a hover about 500' from the 9/27-2/20 intersection. I already told the controller where I intended to go so I continued a low ground taxi down 27 and just as I came to the intersection I got "Helicopter 2CP, make an immediate right turn for Jet Center parking." In my mind "Immediate" meant immediate and being able to make the turn onto 2/20, I did. After that I got a call saying that she actually wanted me to turn onto C (which to me would have been my second right) and not the runway.

Thoughts?

 

[Satchmo10th]

Last weekend, during my second solo cross country - but my FIRST solo cross country to a towered airport over 100 miles away - something funny happened. I train out of a non-towered airport and am very nervous with ATC.

I landed, and the tower started giving me taxi instructions during the flare / touchdown when I could not write anything on paper for the read back, and was mentally busy landing the airplane.

You see, I wasn't expecting taxi instructions until I was clear of the active runway and had been instructed to switch frequencies to ground, and had a pencil and paper handy.

So I asked them to repeat their taxi instructions. Because I had already annoyed them and "messed up" my entrance - sort of - into their airport and told them student pilot, this different voice comes on the radio. He is younger and says something to me like "go to the big building and take a right." It was hilarious.

I got the progressive taxi without even asking for it.

Did you announce yourself as a student pilot on initial contact?

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Did you announce yourself as a student pilot on initial contact?

I need to post a story about this - but the short answer is "yes". They gave me clearance to land on runway one three left and I did not get the rest so I said "Chico Tower, Cessna 24498, student pilot, first solo cross country, was that um right or left traffic for runway one three left?"

Which made him say, "Whatever you want!"

LOL.

 

[Darsh]

Even if the tower forgives you on the radio, I'd still file the NASA form to identify the problem.

Thanks. Just did so.

 

[roncachamp]

I did the same thing once although Im still not sure if it was myself or the controller who was at fault.

I was flying into KHGR from the south, made left base for 27 and came to a hover about 500' from the 9/27-2/20 intersection. I already told the controller where I intended to go so I continued a low ground taxi down 27 and just as I came to the intersection I got "Helicopter 2CP, make an immediate right turn for Jet Center parking." In my mind "Immediate" meant immediate and being able to make the turn onto 2/20, I did. After that I got a call saying that she actually wanted me to turn onto C (which to me would have been my second right) and not the runway.

Thoughts?

My thought is "immediate" means right now.

 

[zaitcev]

The incessant anti-incursion propaganda made me apprehensive about exiting on runways and put me on a bad foot with SAF tower back when I was a solo student. SAF has 3 runways, intersecting in the same spot, and generally they prefer pilots exit to these runways. At my solo XC, I could not bring myself do it, and the controller was miffed. He said to the next guy on final something about "that Cherokee that missed a perfectly good runway just now". He then kept me in run-up pocket for 20 minutes. Still, I haven't had a chance to mistake a runway for a taxiway yet, as airports that I visited had signs in good order.

 

[RJM62]

I had an incursion at Danbury, CT once in a Cub... but perhaps because it occurred as the finale of a spectacular ground loop, I was forgiven by ATC.

The guy who had to fix the ruts I made in the grass wasn't quite so mellow about it, however.

-Rich

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Thanks for posting this, it prompted me to have a discussion about NASA forms with a CFI - and now I understand the whole process a lot better.

 

[Richard]

... I haven't had a chance to mistake a runway for a taxiway yet, as airports that I visited had signs in good order.

Landing RWY 23 KMYF on a clear fall day in the afternoon. At that time of the year the sun is at your 12 o'clock and in the afternoon it is right in your face. Add harried TWR who screams "expedite for landing traffic" and I mistook RWY 28R for Echo. Now realizing what I had done I thought I will just ask TWR for progressive taxi. He told me to standby. The traffic I cleared for had mistook landing 28R for 23 but on short final realized his mistake so while maintaing his low alt he swung around to land 23. He had busted into the orderly stream of landing traffic. While I sat on not-in-use RWY 28R, another pilot announced (as if he is on CTAF) he is short final RWY 28R. I hightailed it to Charlie (or something). TWR says, I give up, tells me to switch to ground. I come onto ground and the guy is just screaming his head off at all the traffic. I got my tongue lashing too.

Even though the signage is there, the low angle sun made it impossible. Even though I had a taxi diagram, I got snookered into clearing onto a rwy.

 

[SkyHog]

Thanks for posting this, it prompted me to have a discussion about NASA forms with a CFI - and now I understand the whole process a lot better.

Very important thing:

If the CFI told you its a "get out of jail free" card that you are only supposed to use sparingly, research a little more (I find a lot of CFIs are misguided on that). You can file as many as you want, and the get out of jail free card isn't used until somone tries to deviate you.

ASRS is a great program, its just unfortunate that so many people don't understand how it should be used.

If he told you to file as often as you screw up, good on him. More CFIs could learn from him.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Very important thing:

If the CFI told you its a "get out of jail free" card that you are only supposed to use sparingly, research a little more (I find a lot of CFIs are misguided on that). You can file as many as you want, and the get out of jail free card isn't used until somone tries to deviate you.

ASRS is a great program, its just unfortunate that so many people don't understand how it should be used.

If he told you to file as often as you screw up, good on him. More CFIs could learn from him.

I said "a CFI" because I forgot if it was my instructor or EdFred (who is also a CFI). Now I'm pretty sure it was Ed and yes he did say to file one every time I do something wrong. I can't keep all my pilots and CFI's straight I spend so much time talking about aviation related stuff!

 

[EdFred]

Very important thing:

If the CFI told you its a "get out of jail free" card that you are only supposed to use sparingly, research a little more (I find a lot of CFIs are misguided on that). You can file as many as you want, and the get out of jail free card isn't used until somone tries to deviate you.

ASRS is a great program, its just unfortunate that so many people don't understand how it should be used.

If he told you to file as often as you screw up, good on him. More CFIs could learn from him.

That I did. I also invested in Georgia Pacific and Mead.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Landing RWY 23 KMYF on a clear fall day in the afternoon. At that time of the year the sun is at your 12 o'clock and in the afternoon it is right in your face. Add harried TWR who screams "expedite for landing traffic" and I mistook RWY 28R for Echo. Now realizing what I had done I thought I will just ask TWR for progressive taxi. He told me to standby. The traffic I cleared for had mistook landing 28R for 23 but on short final realized his mistake so while maintaing his low alt he swung around to land 23. He had busted into the orderly stream of landing traffic. While I sat on not-in-use RWY 28R, another pilot announced (as if he is on CTAF) he is short final RWY 28R. I hightailed it to Charlie (or something). TWR says, I give up, tells me to switch to ground. I come onto ground and the guy is just screaming his head off at all the traffic. I got my tongue lashing too.

Even though the signage is there, the low angle sun made it impossible. Even though I had a taxi diagram, I got snookered into clearing onto a rwy.

I hate 23 at MYF. Poorly marked and not well maintained.

 

[gismo]

I said "a CFI" because I forgot if it was my instructor or EdFred (who is also a CFI). Now I'm pretty sure it was Ed and yes he did say to file one every time I do something wrong. I can't keep all my pilots and CFI's straight I spend so much time talking about aviation related stuff!

You don't even need to have done something wrong. It's good to file on anything you see that might be a problem for someone else someday. The last one I filed was about a takeoff I made at an uncontrolled field with two intersecting runways that has trees between the ends making it impossible to see if there's conflicting traffic departing from the other runway when you're taking off. As I was lifting off a couple hundred feet from the intersection another airplane rolled through that intersection while departing from the other runway. He either didn't use/have a radio (perfectly legal) or was on the wrong frequency because I know I was on the right one and didn't hear him make any calls. We didn't collide because I was already in the air (my plane was very light at the time) and he was still on the ground but it was a lot closer than I wanted to be. Last I heard the city which runs the airport was talking about cutting down some of those trees.

The things you don't want to use ASRS for are reporting on an accident or admitting to any deliberate action contrary to the FARs. For example if you made a flight carrying passengers more than 90 days since you had performed 3 takeoffs and landings (not that you ever would do that!) I wouldn't put that in a ASRS form because the protection from enforcement actions isn't given in such cases.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I hate 23 at MYF. Poorly marked and not well maintained.

There is a runway at STS where if you are even one inch over the line once you clear the runway the taxi marker / sign is behind you facing the other way so you don't know what taxiway you are on, or the ones ahead of you to turn right or left on. At least you would never end up on a runway (well not at the turn I'm thinking of, though there are two runways).

 

[gprellwitz]

I said "a CFI" because I forgot if it was my instructor or EdFred (who is also a CFI). Now I'm pretty sure it was Ed and yes he did say to file one every time I do something wrong. I can't keep all my pilots and CFI's straight I spend so much time talking about aviation related stuff!

Not only when you do something wrong, but when you see a safety deficiency or room for confusion, e.g. Poor markiings.