Accident Defense - The Costa Corcordia

[JimNtexas]

There is a good article concerning the Costa Corcordia accident in the Kennebec Captain blog. Most of his observations directly transfer to aviation.

This blog is written by merchant ship Captain who is very interested in the causes of transportation accidents, land, sea and air.

 

[flyingron]

Bridge Resource Management...I love it.

 

[N801BH]

There is a good article concerning the Costa Corcordia accident in the Kennebec Captain blog. Most of his observations directly transfer to aviation.

This blog is written by merchant ship Captain who is very interested in the causes of transportation accidents, land, sea and air.

I am still waiting for the documentary on how thet actually refloat it....

 

[Henning]

I am still waiting for the documentary on how thet actually refloat it....

They are building a platform underneath it & patching the hole. Then they'll pump water into the high side and pull with tugs and cranes to roll it upright on the platform, pump it out and tow it off to the breakers.

 

[Henning]

Bridge Resource Management...I love it.

Yep, actually a bit more involved than CRM since there are more resources to manage and decisions to make. It's been an STCW requirement at and above the 500 ton level for quite some time.

 

[Witmo]

I am still waiting for the documentary on how thet actually refloat it....

There has been at least one documentary aired on how they're doing it.

 

[Henning]

There has been at least one documentary aired on how they're doing it.

Heck, if you wanna see it live, I've got a couple buddies from Titan/Crowley on the project.

 

[N747JB]

Heck, if you wanna see it live, I've got a couple buddies from Titan/Crowley on the project.

I think the number I heard to salvage her was $400 million!
That seems like a lot of money to take a ship to the scrap yard, tell some crack heads it's full of copper and they'd have it stripped and gone in 3 nights!

 

[Henning]

I think the number I heard to salvage her was $400 million!
That seems like a lot of money to take a ship to the scrap yard, tell some crack heads it's full of copper and they'd have it stripped and gone in 3 nights!

LOL, it IS full of copper, tinned copper at that, miles and miles of it, the stuff that runs down into the pods (these are all Diesel Electric drives) is probably over a foot in diameter if you took off the insulation and put them all together, over a couple hundred feet of that all told most likely. Thing is the salvage value is irrelevant, they can't just leave it there lol, it's just attracting the riff raff who aren't spending tourist money.

 

[Witmo]

Part of the reason its costing so much is because they're trying to float the ship off intact. They could have cut it up in place and hauled off the pieces at much less cost and in much less time but that would have caused an ecological disaster as the place where she sits is very fragile from an ecology perspective.

 

[Henning]

Part of the reason its costing so much is because they're trying to float the ship off intact. They could have cut it up in place and hauled off the pieces at much less cost and in much less time but that would have caused an ecological disaster as the place where she sits is very fragile from an ecology perspective.

I doubt it would have been cheaper to break her in place, too much work and underwater work to do at high European labor cost with more destruction and less salvagability. The ecological situation is what made it a requirement though.

 

[nddons]

I think the number I heard to salvage her was $400 million!
That seems like a lot of money to take a ship to the scrap yard, tell some crack heads it's full of copper and they'd have it stripped and gone in 3 nights!

. Ok, that's funny right there.

 

[ejensen]

I doubt it would have been cheaper to break her in place, too much work and underwater work to do at high European labor cost with more destruction and less salvagability. The ecological situation is what made it a requirement though.

Ever seen the news reports of the ship breaking on the Indian coast. Run it aground as far as you can and watch hundreds of folk in loinclothes run out with torches, hammers, etc and have at it. No high wages there.

 

[N801BH]

They are building a platform underneath it & patching the hole. Then they'll pump water into the high side and pull with tugs and cranes to roll it upright on the platform, pump it out and tow it off to the breakers.

Since the gash / hole is on the side that is above water... Personally,I would have welded up the hole... Inserted alot of airbags in the underwater side, inflated them and when it was somewhat upright again , get a flock of 10,000 gallon a minute pumps, bail it out and tow it back to where it was born.....

IMHO. YMMV...

 

[Henning]

Ever seen the news reports of the ship breaking on the Indian coast. Run it aground as far as you can and watch hundreds of folk in loinclothes run out with torches, hammers, etc and have at it. No high wages there.

LOL, seen more than the news, and that's likely where it'll go to Alang's breaker's in the Gulf of Khambat, although I'm not sure if that's completely settled.

 

[N747JB]

Since the gash / hole is on the side that is above water... Personally,I would have welded up the hole... Inserted alot of airbags in the underwater side, inflated them and when it was somewhat upright again , get a flock of 10,000 gallon a minute pumps, bail it out and tow it back to where it was born.....

IMHO. YMMV...

Sounds like a decent plan, but I'm sure they put a lot of thought into this half billion dollar salvage! Your way is how salvage smaller boats I believe.

 

[Henning]

Since the gash / hole is on the side that is above water... Personally,I would have welded up the hole... Inserted alot of airbags in the underwater side, inflated them and when it was somewhat upright again , get a flock of 10,000 gallon a minute pumps, bail it out and tow it back to where it was born.....

IMHO. YMMV...

Problem is it's rolled past the point of static stability so any pumping will just roll it further, and as the weather deck openings and above are underwater, it'll go upside down rather than upright. They have to segregate and flood the high side of the bottom first then pull it past the metacenter. For that to be successful there needs to be something to stop the roll and hold it up while it gets pumped dry.

 

[N801BH]

Problem is it's rolled past the point of static stability so any pumping will just roll it further, and as the weather deck openings and above are underwater, it'll go upside down rather than upright. They have to segregate and flood the high side of the bottom first then pull it past the metacenter. For that to be successful there needs to be something to stop the roll and hold it up while it gets pumped dry.

You "might' be right.....

My opinion is...........It can't list any more to the side it is laying on now because its resting against the shore /rocks. If it wasn't, it would have sunk completely.

I figured if you place airbags in the low side and inflate them they will do two things.
1- it will try to float that side and in the process that would straighten up the boat.

2- inflating the bags will displace water so less has to be pumped out when the ship get close to level and the decks are not under water as that would let it keep taking on water if it was leaning too far that way.

Once the deck is above water line the massive pumping can start...

Wish I had a model ship... I could simulate it in the hottub to see if my theory would work..

 

[Henning]

You "might' be right.....

My opinion is...........It can't list any more to the side it is laying on now because its resting against the shore /rocks. If it wasn't, it would have sunk completely.

I figured if you place airbags in the low side and inflate them they will do two things.
1- it will try to float that side and in the process that would straighten up the boat.

2- inflating the bags will displace water so less has to be pumped out when the ship get close to level and the decks are not under water as that would let it keep taking on water if it was leaning too far that way.

Once the deck is above water line the massive pumping can start...

Wish I had a model ship... I could simulate it in the hottub to see if my theory would work..

You would need really really really tall airbags.... You need to get her upright within 40° of vertical at least and you still need structure to hold her up as free surface effect will try to take her past and turn her turtle the other side into deep water where she'll fall of the shelf. Then the project becomes really fun...

 

[SteveinIndy]

They are building a platform underneath it & patching the hole. Then they'll pump water into the high side and pull with tugs and cranes to roll it upright on the platform, pump it out and tow it off to the breakers.

I believe that's the technique they used to right the USS Oklahoma after she was sunk at Pearl Harbor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Oklahoma_(BB-37)#Salvage

If not entirely correct, this is still a damn cool picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:N...ip_in_90_degree_position._-_NARA_-_296975.jpg

 

[Henning]

I believe that's the technique they used to right the USS Oklahoma after she was sunk at Pearl Harbor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Oklahoma_(BB-37)#Salvage

If not entirely correct, this is still a damn cool picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:N...ip_in_90_degree_position._-_NARA_-_296975.jpg

There's only so many ways to do it, this is the safest. At least the tug skippers on the Oklahoma tow knew not to have their cable clamps on the bitter ends of the hawsers.... People used to make fun of me for ordering them removed when the weather got bad.

 

[merlin3]

If you watch the documentary they had giant steel tanks made and welded to the sides of the boat for it to float on, they arent really trying to fix the hull they are relying on the tanks to support. They also built big structures to keep it from sliding off a dropoff because it is very close to sliding down and being a lot harder to salvage.

 

[SteveinIndy]

There's only so many ways to do it, this is the safest

Very cool. Marine salvage has always fascinated with me but that would seem to go along with my other design interest which is boats. When I get past the point of designing my airplane, I am strongly considering designing a boat just for the challenge.

 

[Henning]

Very cool. Marine salvage has always fascinated with me but that would seem to go along with my other design interest which is boats. When I get past the point of designing my airplane, I am strongly considering designing a boat just for the challenge.

Just figure out what you want to do with it first. Even more so than airplanes, boats are a compromise in characteristics.

 

[N801BH]

......take her past and turn her turtle the other side into deep water where she'll fall of the shelf. Then the project becomes really fun...

.

That is the easiest part to overcome... The ship is laying on a huge rock island... Sink some anchors and string some large cables to the stack of the ship with enough slack to hold it upright... it CANNOT turn turtle to the other side...

I am gonna hit the second hand store to see if someone donated a model ship and sink it in the hot tub.........

 

[N801BH]

If you watch the documentary they had giant steel tanks made and welded to the sides of the boat for it to float on, they arent really trying to fix the hull they are relying on the tanks to support. They also built big structures to keep it from sliding off a dropoff because it is very close to sliding down and being a lot harder to salvage.

Gotta link to the documentary ?? I would like to view it..

TIA..


edit...............

never mind..... I found it....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

 

[N801BH]

While looking for the other video.. this one popped up.....


This is the WRONG way to knock down a building..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=