Accident avoided Cessna Skylane versus F-16 at KTOL on the way to KOSH

cowman said:
Every time I've flown into a controlled airport the controller has told me which taxiway turnoff they want me to exit on. If I'm being honest, I'd always been under the impression that I had to get clearance anywhere on a controlled field except the non-movement(ramp) areas. So cleared to land gives me the whole runway, then I need permission to turn off onto a taxiway, etc.

The AIM may say turn off on the first available taxiway but I don't think that's how pilots are being trained or how things are being done in practice. At least not in my, admittedly limited, experience.
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That is because students are typically trained at a sleepy Delta. Not doubt the pilot in the video expected the tower to tell him what to do next. Absent that instruction, you turn off. This event was a Charlie, the tower controllers get busy, they expect you to know proper procedures and not to do unexpected things.
 
What's drama here? The controller screwed up and should have issued a LAHSO to the Cessna and the the Cessna should have got off the runway ASAP anyway.
 
Rex Kramer said:
What's drama here? The controller screwed up and should have issued a LAHSO to the Cessna and the the Cessna should have got off the runway ASAP anyway.
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Actually they should have just told the Cessna to remain clear of the Charlie when they were busy.
 
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hindsight2020 said:
Um, we call this Sunday on POA. Are you new? :D ;)
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hah good point!



Clip4 said:
Actually they should have just told the Cessna to remain clear of the Charlie when they were busy.
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Well there's no reason they (KTOL) can't make it work, but yeah I wouldn't bother going to a "major" airport if I didn't need to. The whole point of flying GA is to avoid crap like this.
 
I got yelled at once for picking my own taxiway at a delta in the absence of instructions from the tower. I was right of course, and my instructor at the time agreed. I also got yelled at once at the same delta for turning off on another (but closed) runway without being told to do so. That was wrong and a learning experience.
 
Velocity173 said:
You can bet the facility QA people won’t look at it as being minor. The controller didn’t ensure runway separation and violated procedures. Didn’t even issue a traffic call to Doc on the F-16 landing. While it all worked out, if Doc had kept rolling that would’ve been ugly.
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Doc was about a 1,000 feet away and doing 9 knots. Tempest in a tea cup. Concur, likely "procedures" were violated. Having said that, it was about as far from significant as a procedures violation can get.
 
George Mohr said:
I got yelled at once for picking my own taxiway at a delta in the absence of instructions from the tower. I was right of course, and my instructor at the time agreed. I also got yelled at once at the same delta for turning off on another (but closed) runway without being told to do so. That was wrong and a learning experience.
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I'd have called the Supe/QA the next business day for two reasons:

1. I won't tolerate people yelling at me no matter what. It's unprofessional and contrary to safety.
2. Turning off at the next practical taxiway is what you are supposed to do.

Turning onto a RUNWAY without clearance is a no-no.
 
Sundancer said:
Doc was about a 1,000 feet away and doing 9 knots. Tempest in a tea cup. Concur, likely "procedures" were violated. Having said that, it was about as far from significant as a procedures violation can get.
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True. The outcome was a ‘no harm, no fouler.’ But ATC don’t look at it that way. All operational errors are investigated and go through the process. There is a reason for this. Next time a Controller has the same ‘brain fart,’ the circumstances might be different and not be a no harmer. Different performing airplanes, different pilot actions etc. They want to find out what was going on with the Controller and correct any deficiencies he/she may have.
 
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