Accelerated Training Course...Ceiling Fan Edition

Yesterday was day 5...washed out due to thunderstorms and instructors said to not even thinks about PPG for the day (not remotely possible to not think about it!). Ended up being a much needed break both mentally and physically.

This morning was beginning of day 6...6:30am at the field and weather was great at sunrise. Light breeze which pops the wing right up which is what I needed today. Due to a few wash outs, other's school and work scheduled and one student that wanted some more kitting practice this afternoon before flying I had the gear, field and two instructors to myself all morning. Down side was no breaks, upside was being able to end the morning session on a confident note. Four solid launches today and the chaos and terror is quickly subsiding and get to start working on form and fine tuning of control inputs. The brain can now process all the steps and react as each step gets experiecned over and over.

I am over the hump...the training process is now a lot more technical and finesse to launch vs trying to muscle and power through things at launch which was physically draining. Now that everything is starting to line up...pop the kite, a few steps, add power and poof...you are airborne. The beginning stages felt like double day football linebacker practice getting to this point!

Goal is 15 flights at least before I depart on Monday...so hopefully the weather cooperates for the next two and half days!

...then it is off to go **** of GA pilots zipping all around on one of them thare arse fans!
 
Pics or it didn't happen
 
Shawn said:
Yesterday was day 5...washed out due to thunderstorms and instructors said to not even thinks about PPG for the day (not remotely possible to not think about it!). Ended up being a much needed break both mentally and physically.

This morning was beginning of day 6..
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6 days! OMG! LOL Cool! Sooooooooo, have any crashes, err, less than stellar takeoffs/landings? Flare required when landing? I used to skydive, that is why I ask about the flare. Always had issues wiuh that. This may be a good replacement.
 
So a question...

The photos show the more "traditional" (I guess) huge framed system with monster prop and lots of heavy stuff, and the recent thread on the popular videos of that one guy are all about a little backpack system that is significantly smaller and more portable.

Obviously there's probably significant power differences (minus the performance loss for the extra weight) between the two types, but is one easier to find training for than the other, and is pricing relatively the same, or wildly different?

Anything else to know about them as far as differences go? I can make lots of guesses, but haven't really looked for a comparison document or anything like that.

What would y'all say the official terms are that describe one vs the other, if you're talking to knowledgeable PPG folks. Hmm, may have answered my own question there...

Would one be a powered paraglider, and the other a powered parachute? Nah, never mind on that. I'll leave it as typed but I see that's not it. Hmm.

I'm fascinated by the backpack things. The wind around here would almost never allow either type, most of the year, but it all looks like a very enjoyable way to fly.
 
flhrci said:
6 days! OMG! LOL Cool! Sooooooooo, have any crashes, err, less than stellar takeoffs/landings? Flare required when landing? I used to skydive, that is why I ask about the flare. Always had issues wiuh that. This may be a good replacement.
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Yup...had a few failed launches at the onset. One skid to my knees on takeoff with a cage strike that luckily only ripped a strap that they were able to resew. In my class we had two busted props, one punctured gas tank and one bent frame. Once I got the hang of it, there were numerous blown launches to follow but those were mostly kite handling issues and failure to inflate and kite prior to takeoff which is common even for those that are experienced and more difficult with the less wind there is. Luckily unlike GA, a prop strike is only a few hundred dollar oops to replace, not a full engine rebuild.

I did have my second landing in a 4' high soybean field landing long just past the touchdown zone, but that was the instructor's call...I was low on fuel and he was not confident that I would not run out with a go around and the soybean landing was a safer option than a potential engine out for a complete noob. Luckily they were really soft and just tripped me up on the flare, but no damage to me or equipment.

We shared the field with a very active skydive school, and although I have been around them I never realized how hot and hard they actually come in...holy chit they are rippin in and landing hard! Landing is one of the easiest things about the whole PPG process when it goes right. Same as skydiving...hand up no pressure, five foot high 1/3 flare to level off and bleed off energy then to full flare 18" off the ground and you literally step outta the sky. The picture above is my flare to landing.

denverpilot said:
The photos show the more "traditional" (I guess) huge framed system with monster prop and lots of heavy stuff, and the recent thread on the popular videos of that one guy are all about a little backpack system that is significantly smaller and more portable.
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They are all pretty similar and I learned in the process that bigger is not always better. The motor pictured is the Air Conception which is one of the lighter on the market and has a 200cc engine...a few of us were having problems with controlling that much power while being totally uncoordinated as a noob on takeoff so we switched to the MiniPlane Top 80 even though three of us were in in the 200-220 weight range. Just like the difference between a 152 and 182, both will get your butt off the ground only difference is climb performance. Does not take a ton of thrust to get you off the ground. Once I got the hang of it I switched back to the bigger motor, but one student liked it so much he canceled his order for the Air Conception and ordered the MiniPlane.

I am headed home now sore as hell...have done 14 flights in the past two days, 18 total for the week after 8 days of training with one of those grounded for weather. Could have flown this morning before headed to the airport but the body was telling me otherwise and opted to end last night on a great confident note. Luckily it gets physically easier as you progress. Need to go home and detox, Advil and caffeine no longer have any effect!

I leaned a ton during this process and have no problem sharing what I leaned and my thoughts if any one is interested in starting. It s a freakin blast.

Next step...order my gear and get flying at home!
 
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Shawn said:
I leaned a ton during this process and have no problem sharing what I leaned and my thoughts if any one is interested in starting. It s a freakin blast.

Next step...order my gear and get flying at home!
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But did you lean "forward"???
 
Well, after a five week backorder my Scout Carbon motor and Ozone wing finally arrived and I was able to get back in the air post training.

Two flights in on the new setup and haven't killed myself so far!
IMG_6195.jpgIMG_6198.jpgIMG_6204.jpgIMG_6205.jpg
 
Bad ass dude id totally do it if i had the extra cash and time.

There is an old guy across from me who has a Mooney but every time I see him he is out flying his trike paramotor...he keeps it stored in his hangar with his mooney.
 
CC268 said:
Bad ass dude id totally do it if i had the extra cash and time.

There is an old guy across from me who has a Mooney but every time I see him he is out flying his trike paramotor...he keeps it stored in his hangar with his mooney.
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Trike paramotor?
 
Salty said:
Trike paramotor?
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Same thing I am doing with as foot launch paramotor but add a lightweight Big Wheels kinda frame and seat. Easy way to get older/less physically fit/bigger/or bad legs and knees pilots to get into the air as it is much less physically demanding and technically easier than foot launch. Many use the same motor for the trike frame but just a bit larger wing.

Lots of variations and models out there, but here is the idea:

TRIKE-SLIDER-1.jpg
 
RussR said:
Man my brain is having a hard time with that picture.
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Glad I wasn't the only one

That's awesome to Shawn, something that's on my bucket list!
 
Shawn said:
Same thing I am doing with as foot launch paramotor but add a lightweight Big Wheels kinda frame and seat. Easy way to get older/less physically fit/bigger/or bad legs and knees pilots to get into the air as it is much less physically demanding and technically easier than foot launch. Many use the same motor for the trike frame but just a bit larger wing.

Lots of variations and models out there, but here is the idea:

View attachment 56908
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I had no idea. Seems a little oxymoronic to me, but to each their own.
 
Shawn said:
How so?...just curious.
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Would you put wheels on a parachute? Or a glider? To me they are about the simplicity and freedom of the simple design.

If I were to do anything, I'd strap a real wing on it rather than wheels. It just seems to make a simple thing ungainly and complicated. But, I don't know enough about them to say it's a dumb thing to do.
 
Shawn, which field are you flying out of on the west coast? I don't recognize it.
 
A large part of the magic of paramotoring (for me) is foot launching, "running into the sky." You lose that with wheels, true. But that's not all there is. Some people like just boating around slow, and many of them gravitate toward the larger powered parachutes (as opposed to powered paragliders, i.e. the foot launchable variety). But a lot of it is about the flying... modern paragliders are incredibly maneuverable. Not hardcore acro for most ppgers (though there's that, too), but cranking and banking at low altitude, flying slalom around treetops, cruising along the shoreline with your feet skimming the waves, etc. It's a totally different reason to fly-- think of it not as a slow open air Cessna but as a flying jet ski or dirt bike.
 
Dana said:
A large part of the magic of paramotoring (for me) is foot launching, "running into the sky." You lose that with wheels, true. But that's not all there is. Some people like just boating around slow, and many of them gravitate toward the larger powered parachutes (as opposed to powered paragliders, i.e. the foot launchable variety). But a lot of it is about the flying... modern paragliders are incredibly maneuverable. Not hardcore acro for most ppgers (though there's that, too), but cranking and banking at low altitude, flying slalom around treetops, cruising along the shoreline with your feet skimming the waves, etc. It's a totally different reason to fly-- think of it not as a slow open air Cessna but as a flying jet ski or dirt bike.
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I think this post explains my confusion better than mine did. Strapping a big heavy set of wheels to the bottom just seems to contradict it's whole purpose to me.

I'd like to try it someday, and hey, maybe my airport manager wouldn't hate them so much if they had wheels....
 
Salty said:
maybe my airport manager wouldn't hate them so much if they had wheels....
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Coming from an aviation perspective, that is one problem with the Paramotors that fall under the Ultralight category...unlike going through the training process of getting a PPL or Sport Pilot there is literally zero license or even training technically required to go out and fly an Ultralight.

The upside it that it is the cheapest and easiest way to get in the air and start flying for someone starting from zero...the downside to that is you potentially have a lot of folks that other than a quick one hour airspace briefing in training if they took formal classes have no idea about the rules of the road and airport operations so you have a lot of airport managers shooing them away, not cuz of what they are but the jackwaggons flying them with no idea how to operate safely in an airport environment.

I am fortunate that I can fly out of my home airport, but have been working closey with the airport manager on procedures and operating areas that work best for both the PPG and Fixed wing world...but I have had other private airports say "no way".
 
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Salty said:
I think this post explains my confusion better than mine did. Strapping a big heavy set of wheels to the bottom just seems to contradict it's whole purpose to me.

I'd like to try it someday, and hey, maybe my airport manager wouldn't hate them so much if they had wheels....
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If you want something with a more rigid wing and wheels, then that's a trike. They come in pilot only and pilot and passenger varieties. The two seaters are light sport aircraft and require instruction and at least a student pilot's license to fly solo.

iu


apache-s1.jpg


There isn't a direct hang gliding equivalent to a powered paraglider. The way you land a hang glider is to bring it in at about 30 mph, let it slow to about 30 percent above stall speed, and then put it up in a very high angle of attack.

409x172_Steve_S2_Landing.jpg


The glider decelerates rapidly and if you do it right you shouldn't have to take more than one step. That's not really possible with a motor, so trikes are the closest thing there is to a powered fixed wing paraglider. There is a powered harness for self launching a hang glider. It looks kind of Dr. Seussian:

Mosquito_A10.JPG


I've never seen one in person so I have no idea how they would land.
 
So if you have a collapse, could you lean real far forward and blow air up into the wing?

lol.. I guess not, but I'd be tryin like a mofo!

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I saw a few guys in Reedsville,PA flying theirs Saturday on my way to Rhode Island.. looks like fun!

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
FormerHangie said:
If you want something with a more rigid wing and wheels, then that's a trike. They come in pilot only and pilot and passenger varieties. The two seaters are light sport aircraft and require instruction and at least a student pilot's license to fly solo.

iu


There isn't a direct hang gliding equivalent to a powered paraglider. The way you land a hang glider is to bring it in at about 30 mph, let it slow to about 30 percent above stall speed, and then put it up in a very high angle of attack.

409x172_Steve_S2_Landing.jpg


The glider decelerates rapidly and if you do it right you shouldn't have to take more than one step. That's not really possible with a motor, so trikes are the closest thing there is to a powered fixed wing paraglider. There is a powered harness for self launching a hang glider. It looks kind of Dr. Seussian:

I've never seen one in person so I have no idea how they would land.
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Hangie,

Them's is dangerous! LOL
 
vontresc said:
Just curious, will whatever certification they give you also qualify you to fly at a hang gliding site? Also how different are the PPG vs Paraglider wings?
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Don't quite know what that would look like. The FAA doesn't even classify hang gliders as airplanes. I think you can legally buy one and jump off a mountain, not that it would be particularly smart.
 
Paramotor training or a new G5 for my airplane.....I'm gonna get the G5. But the rest of you guys have fun!
 
The G5 is worth it
 
steingar said:
Don't quite know what that would look like. The FAA doesn't even classify hang gliders as airplanes. I think you can legally buy one and jump off a mountain, not that it would be particularly smart.
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There is no hang or paraglider license. However, there is a national organization, the United States Hang and Paragliding association, that issues ratings. Most hang gliding and paragliding launches are operated by clubs, which will require you to have the appropriate rating and skill level for that launch. So, a PPG pilot would still have to get the needed rating from a USHPA rated instructor. No doubt that the canopy handling and landing skills that the PPG pilot would have would help him get that rating pretty quickly, he'd mainly have to learn a new launch technique.
 
There are Industry self recognized "ratings" for both Paraglider and Paramotors but they are separate. In order to gain access from various entities for flying sites requiring a minimum rating is one way they help preserve the access. Sometimes the PPG ratings cary over to the Paraglider world, but not often.

In reality most of the Paragliding sites and conditions are not what the PPG guys are looking for anyway.
 
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