A very sad truth

Kind of wish I was learning to fly during the golden age of GA (late 70s), when aircrafts were cheap and regulations were reasonable.
 
It's still busy as heck, and getting busier, in urban areas. I wouldn't correlate the closing of some of these rural airports with the imminent death of GA.
 
ybitz said:
Kind of wish I was learning to fly during the golden age of GA (late 70s), when aircrafts were cheap and regulations were reasonable.
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Those same planes are really cheap now.
 
But rural airports is where the fun is...
 
Isn't more a function that all of rural America is getting depopulated?
 
It's regulation that has salted the earth........ That's why a $129 alternator costs $500.

It's all fun and games till there are no more people to fly the spam cans across the states. Then what? Lower the standards and give them the answers to the test? Oh wait, we are already coming to that point...
 
Unit74 said:
It's regulation that has salted the earth........ That's why a $129 alternator costs $500.

It's all fun and games till there are no more people to fly the spam cans across the states. Then what? Lower the standards and give them the answers to the test? Oh wait, we are already coming to that point...
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Eliminate the need for regulation and you eliminate that problem. Embrace anarchy.
 
I feel I missed aviation by about a decade. I am about the last of my group of pilot friends that still fly, our local airport is almost a ghost town compared to what it used to be....sigh.
 
mnewb1 said:
I feel I missed aviation by about a decade. I am about the last of my group of pilot friends that still fly, our local airport is almost a ghost town compared to what it used to be....sigh.
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What prompted your friends to exit the game? Cost?
 
Bonchie said:
It's still busy as heck, and getting busier, in urban areas. I wouldn't correlate the closing of some of these rural airports with the imminent death of GA.
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I agree about being busier in the urban areas but then there are more people. There is also usually more money with the exception of rural resort areas which can be islands of wealth too.
 
A local municipal airport here used to hold an annual open house a few years back. At that time it brought many people out for it. Airplane rides and there used to be helicopter rides with aircraft on the ramp to look at. This is when I made many memories out there. In the recent years there hasn't been any open house, but the airport is still relatively busy. I think alot of it depends on the location.
 
Weiner, 70, says more people would fly small planes if they knew what the experience was like.

"If you've never had it, you'll never miss it," he said. "It's like trying to describe the taste of chocolate cake."
 
I've turned away at least four new students this spring. As a weekend club with limited instructors, our student roster is full. All were adults.
 
Ryanb said:
A local municipal airport here used to hold an annual open house a few years back. At that time it brought many people out for it. Airplane rides and there used to be helicopter rides with aircraft on the ramp to look at. This is when I made many memories out there. In the recent years there hasn't been any open house, but the airport is still relatively busy. I think alot of it depends on the location.
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The Arlington Flyin has grown smaller every year, the big draw was the war birds, but the city said they were no longer subsidizing the war birds with a % of the gate.
Simply because the city could not make enough money if they did, so the war birds went away, as did the people. The people went away so the exhibitors left too. So the city will now charge the flyin aircraft owners to camp.

What do you think will happen next?

This is what the flying looked like Circa 1995.
 

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I wish the sport pilot stuff hadn't run off all the 'illegal' two seat ultralights. Those guys were doing all right and were the sort of people that put a strip in next to the corn. You wouldn't be landing a cirrus there, but those suck anyway. I say get the towns out of the airport business, the best airports are private ones owned by eccentric aviation nutballs. And the article is way off saying kids would rather play with computers and cars, kids are shunning cars these days in big numbers.
 
I'm guessing this quote was taken out of context. Not that a journalist would ever do that.

"Air travel is not nearly as interesting as it used to be," said Tom Haines, a pilot since 1977 and editor with the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
 
48dodge said:
I'm guessing this quote was taken out of context. Not that a journalist would ever do that.

"Air travel is not nearly as interesting as it used to be," said Tom Haines, a pilot since 1977 and editor with the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
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I don't know why you think it's out of context, it's pretty accurate as it stands. GA is not as interesting as it used to be. Less recreational aviation events and people just hanging around the airport by far. Try to wander the ramp and look at airplanes these days...you get accosted by someone who believes they are a security force.
 
Henning said:
I don't know why you think it's out of context, it's pretty accurate as it stands. GA is not as interesting as it used to be. Less recreational aviation events and people just hanging around the airport by far. Try to wander the ramp and look at airplanes these days...you get accosted by someone who believes they are a security force.
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I'd have to read the article again, but I think that quote was more dealing with Airline travel.

As in, because airline travel sucks so much these days vs. the golden age, it colors people's view of all flying.
 
Bonchie said:
I'd have to read the article again, but I think that quote was more dealing with Airline travel.

As in, because airline travel sucks so much these days vs. the golden age, it colors people's view of all flying.
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The quote still stands strong in either context.
 
Henning said:
I don't know why you think it's out of context, it's pretty accurate as it stands. GA is not as interesting as it used to be. Less recreational aviation events and people just hanging around the airport by far. Try to wander the ramp and look at airplanes these days...you get accosted by someone who believes they are a security force.
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And you think someone from AOPA is going to say that? I believe the AOPA editor was referring to commercial flying not being interesting and the article quotes him implying flying in general isn't cool anymore that's why the pilot population has dropped and small airports are closing down. If he was in fact referring to GA I would guess he'd be looking for a job this morning.
 
Tom-D said:
Weiner, 70, says more people would fly small planes if they knew what the experience was like.

"If you've never had it, you'll never miss it," he said. "It's like trying to describe the taste of chocolate cake."
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That is exactly right!!
 
48dodge said:
And you think someone from AOPA is going to say that? I believe the AOPA editor was referring to commercial flying not being interesting and the article quotes him implying flying in general isn't cool anymore that's why the pilot population has dropped and small airports are closing down. If he was in fact referring to GA I would guess he'd be looking for a job this morning.
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Why should anyone join an aviation organization that says flying isn't cool in any form?
 
FloridaPilot said:
Some people like to be told what to do
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They get what they get then. If they have benevolent leadership they will be fine. Only problem is we haven't seen much benevolence since Cyrus; maybe one day, but probably not.
 
I've always had more students then I knew what to do with, what that airport needs is someone who can operate a computer, knows a little about marketing and has a internet connection.

Selling aviation is like selling crack, after the discovery flight, folks who can afford to learn how to fly (same demographic as the folks who can afford a ATV or used ski boat) tend to continue with lessons, my closing ratio was rather good after the 30 minute, 99 buck discovery flights.



Of course the over regulation by our beloved overlords doesn't help, also doesn't make us much safer, but we all know that's not the point ;)

Nor does it help that many flight schools are trying to fleece folks out of money via holding money for them, selling overpriced private pilot "packages" pushing people into overpriced G1000 planes for a mere PPL.

How bouts use well maintained older planes like a 172N or better yet a 7AC, rent her dry, point them to the king school, or let them watch a communal video set at your school, organize student and renter activities like BBQs and fly-ins, ground schools, Reach out and see if you can attract a small DZ to do weekend jumps with a 182, get the rotary club and other activities to use a empty hangar to get more people around airplanes and the airport, I could go on all day

Get on facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, yelp, google places, EAA, etc it's all free or next to free.
 
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James331 said:
I've always had more students then I knew what to do with, what that airport needs is someone who can operate a computer, knows a little about marketing and has a internet connection.

Selling aviation is like selling crack, after the discovery flight, folks who can afford to learn how to fly (same demographic as the folks who can afford a ATV or used ski boat) tend to continue with lessons, my closing ratio was rather good after the 30 minute, 99 buck discovery flights.



Of course the over regulation by our beloved overlords doesn't help, also doesn't make us much safer, but we all know that's not the point ;)

Nor does it help that many flight schools are trying to fleece folks out of money via holding money for them, selling overpriced private pilot "packages" pushing people into overpriced G1000 planes for a mere PPL.

How bouts use well maintained older planes like a 172N or better yet a 7AC, rent her dry, point them to the king school, or let them watch a communal video set at your school, organize student and renter activities like BBQs and fly-ins, ground schools, Reach out and see if you can attract a small DZ to do weekend jumps with a 182, get the rotary club and other activities to use a empty hangar to get more people around airplanes and the airport, I could go on all day

Get on facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, yelp, google places, EAA, etc it's all free or next to free.
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There's still places like that around, they just don't advertise.:mad2:

As for the G-1000 at PP level, I'm torn, and the value may be better than you think if the person is looking to go straight to an IR and intends to fly the G-1000 IMC. It's actually a very good and extremely complex system to learn, but was designed to be able to be learned in stages with capability requirements. You can jump right into a G-1000 flight 1 and use it with no more complexity than if it had KX-155s in it and direct control the radio. However, if you start with the G-1000 plane for PP, you have 40 hrs of opportunity to add items one at a time, and months for the student to study and play with the sim learning more features. It takes a good 100hrs of combined flight/study/sim to get to 80% system knowledge, and the other 20% takes about the same. (This is why I think the G-500/600 with a 750 is a better panel than a G-1000, the interface is that much better, although now an iPad and Airstream can correct that for $1k). If they can gradually add the G-1000 proficiency and knowledge during the PP, it will save that time when they want to get in the G-1000 for the IR, and if you are trying to learn the G-1000 and IR work at the same time, you have severely handicapped yourself with a coursework overload.

What works best and is of best value is unique to each student, so I wouldn't castigate those who use a G-1000 for primary students to hell on that alone.
 
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denverpilot said:
Why should anyone join an aviation organization that says flying isn't cool in any form?
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Fact is many people still think flying is cool. I just got my PPL and when I tell people I get one of two responses....

1. Wow, that is really neat or cool.
2. That is too dangerous you would never get me in one of those things.

The majority give response number one. From a marketing standpoint the cost, perceived elitism, and possible danger is GA biggest problem. We never get good press!!! Probably 85% of this country lives within 30 minutes of an airport and does not even know it. Planes big and small crisscross the sky everywhere, and nobody notices it. GA does not advertise well that it is a fun, a quick way to get to cool places. But one plane goes down anywhere in the US and it is national news, especially if there is a fatality. A pilot makes an emergency landing with skill, like we were all trained to do, and that becomes a miracle in the press , because we all know when planes fail they drop out of the sky like rocks.

I am not going to make the argument that GA is as safe as traveling in a car, I know it is not. But from a pure numbers standpoint far more people die in cars, because almost everyone drives. But where we heard of the GA plane crash 2000 mile away on CNN, we never heard about the two kids killed 10 miles away in a car, unless you faithfully read the local papers. It is all about perception, and media coverage. The only news the general public hears about GA is when something goes wrong. If they gave the same news coverage nationally to every car crash, nobody would drive either.
 
denverpilot said:
Why should anyone join an aviation organization that says flying isn't cool in any form?
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Because they would be an honest organization. Only an organization that recognizes the failures it represents can fix those failures, and 'it isn't cool anymore' is that very most critical failure. PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO FLY CRAPPY LITTLE PLANES! People don't want to spend a ton of money and not get much in return.

There was a comment somewhere deriding the G-1000 and high dollar modern plane flight school model as a negative impact on GA and I argue that. The modernization of panels has brought in a lot of people who turned away before because they weren't comfortable with "old junk".

The biggest thing I always try to point out that holds GA back though is the lacking of a youth/young/adult social aspect. GA needs "Ladies Night" and "Happy Hour".

Economically and practically though, what GA needs is a nationwide fleet that allows one way rentals and a common fleet checkout. I always thought Cirrus would try it, they have the infrastructure pretty much in place. Heck, they may yet building a Chinese fleet.
 
If airplanes and expenses were to go down drastically, (For simplicity lets say all GA airplanes out of the factory cost 100k) That means you can buy any GA aircraft for 100k. Do you believe that it would change the market and people will embrace GA rather than who crashed their aircraft today?

I believe most of us here would buy a new airplane right away but that wouldn't change how society "pictures" GA. "More planes in the sky OMG more planes will fall out of the sky" The people that I speak to outside of the pilot community believe that GA is very dangerous and I'm crazy for flying, (What else is new) but they also find it to be noisy even though they purchased a house next to a GA airport. More of them are being born every day and until we find a solution to make GA useful there will be a shopping mall or housing development where a GA airport use to be. Maybe not in our lifetimes but eventually!

Just my two cents!!
 
FloridaPilot said:
If airplanes and expenses were to go down drastically, (For simplicity lets say all GA airplanes out of the factory cost 100k) That means you can buy any GA aircraft for 100k. Do you believe that it would change the market and people will embrace GA rather than who crashed their aircraft today?

I believe most of us here would buy a new airplane right away but that wouldn't change how society "pictures" GA. "More planes in the sky OMG more planes will fall out of the sky" The people that I speak to outside of the pilot community believe that GA is very dangerous and I'm crazy for flying, (What else is new) but they also find it to be noisy even though they purchased a house next to a GA airport. More of them are being born every day and until we find a solution to make GA useful there will be a shopping mall or housing development where a GA airport use to be. Maybe not in our lifetimes but eventually!

Just my two cents!!
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Again it come back to marketing and public perception. Recreational boating is less practical than GA, but around me far more people own boats. Many middle class people own boats that cost 50 to 100k, but far less middle class people own even a 30k used plane. I live in NJ, and there are several deaths related to boating every year. And if you have a house at the shore, those boats can be damn loud. The main thing is any person can take a test, and a few hour safety course and legally be able to use a boat, so there is not a direct equivalent, flying takes not just money but commitment.

Motorcycles are the same thing, arguable less practical than a GA plane, just as dangerous, possible even slightly more dangerous, but yet far more excepted and popular. Honestly, I fly a plane, and think the motorcycle people are crazy.

So yes, I think that if we had planes that were perceived as safe, and cost 100K, more people would fly, because average people spend lots of money on expensive recreational activities with similar safety records, and are less practical. Its all about cost, marketing, public awareness, and providing a warm open community that the public wants to be part of.
 
Boating is an activity which can more easily be shared and enjoyed with family and friends. Not to mention that it takes much less training and testing to take a boat out on a lake.
 
Everskyward said:
Boating is an activity which can more easily be shared and enjoyed with family and friends. Not to mention that it takes much less training and testing to take a boat out on a lake.
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You could chalk that comment up to perception also. Jet skis fit 1 to 3 people, yet are very popular. Many small speed boats become unsafe if you get more than about 6 people on them. Yes, people drink and eat much more while using boats, and thus many of the year deaths. But that is more social. But there is no reason why an airport can not be just as active and social place that a marina often is. If we made airports social places where you took a flight to get to another cool social place, it would be a great activity to do with family and friends.

I already did point out that it requires much less training.
 
drotto said:
You could chalk that comment up to perception also. Jet skis fit 1 to 3 people, yet are very popular. Many small speed boats become unsafe if you get more than about 6 people on them. Yes, people drink and eat much more while using boats, and thus many of the year deaths. But that is more social. But there is no reason why an airport can not be just as active and social place that a marina often is. If we made airports social places where you took a flight to get to another cool social place, it would be a great activity to do with family and friends.

I already did point out that it requires much less training.
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You don't need a license and a bunch of expensive training to drive a jet ski (or a small boat). Not to mention the difference in price between an jet ski and an airplane.
 
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