A very sad truth

If airplanes and expenses were to go down drastically, (For simplicity lets say all GA airplanes out of the factory cost 100k) That means you can buy any GA aircraft for 100k. Do you believe that it would change the market and people will embrace GA rather than who crashed their aircraft today?

I believe most of us here would buy a new airplane right away but that wouldn't change how society "pictures" GA. "More planes in the sky OMG more planes will fall out of the sky" The people that I speak to outside of the pilot community believe that GA is very dangerous and I'm crazy for flying, (What else is new) but they also find it to be noisy even though they purchased a house next to a GA airport. More of them are being born every day and until we find a solution to make GA useful there will be a shopping mall or housing development where a GA airport use to be. Maybe not in our lifetimes but eventually!

Just my two cents!!

The investment in time and money it takes to get a certificate is the bigger issue.

I think they should open up the Sport Pilot Certificate to planes like 172s and Warriors. Those planes are no tougher or more dangerous to fly then an LSA. Put the same VFR/daytime restrictions in place, limit payload to two people on board until 40 hours is reached, etc. This will exponentially increase the access to suitable planes for people around the country just wanting to get a Sport certificate. Right now, if you live anywhere outside an urban area, you probably won't find an LSA to rent. They also get to fly something at the end that's more practical and can actually go places. Use it as a "step" toward the PPL, so people get something for their labor sooner. Like an associates to bachelors degree.

But the above is a pipedream. The government doesn't want more guys in the sky and will continue to regulate GA into the ground with no regrets.
 
An airport can't be like a marina because chicks prefer boats.
 
You don't need a license and a bunch of expensive training to drive a jet ski (or a small boat). Not to mention the difference in price between an jet ski and an airplane.

That is true,

But if you love something and want to do it bad enough it's not going to stop you. I stopped training for a while because my Instructor bailed out on me, (Went to the Airlines) So far I've had two instructors who went to the airlines and I'm VERY selective on who I pick. Either there is a ramp up in jobs or I stink as a student pilot, (Maybe a little of both) I love flying though and I will not let it stop me.

I think the idea mentioned is a great idea. Make airports social places. The airport where I live (48X) is a grass strip, I visited a few times and took some photos after about 1 month they fenced off the airport. I didn't do anything bad I just wanted to look around maybe talk to some pilots there. That tells me I'm not wanted there, there are quite a few people who don't want GA to grow but that is the only way it will survive long term.
 
You don't need a license and a bunch of expensive training to drive a jet ski (or a small boat). Not to mention the difference in price between an jet ski and an airplane.
In NJ there is a required safety basic boating course, and written test. The test is about the same level as a driving test however.
 
That is true,

I think the idea mentioned is a great idea. Make airports social places. The airport where I live (48X) is a grass strip, I visited a few times and took some photos after about 1 month they fenced off the airport. I didn't do anything bad I just wanted to look around maybe talk to some pilots there. That tells me I'm not wanted there, there are quite a few people who don't want GA to grow but that is the only way it will survive long term.

There is at least one airport near me that does stuff this, but my idea for GA getting social. It would require between 1 to 4 airport per state to really make it work, and I would even support a membership requirement to a degree to offset cost. So imagine a nationwide resorts at airfields. At each location you would have available.

1. Food. It could be BBQ, pick nick areas, restaurant, or a mix of the above.
2. Meeting area of some type
3. Pool
4. Outdoor, game fun areas.
5. Accommodations for overnight
6. Courtesy cars or shuttle if there are local attractions.
7. Golf course

Basically small resorts with very easy airport access, but networked unlike todays individual operations.

Well that gives you the idea. Each site would either have its own thing on top of that, and would really cater to getting the pilot along with family and friends to the local fun stuff. Really play up the advantages to flying somewhere. Give you a reason to fly, places to visit and fly to that would not require getting a car at the other end, and social events and people to meet.

A AAA aspect of it would also be nice (I know there is the AOAP), but have them offer discounts in a similar manner.
 
That is true,

But if you love something and want to do it bad enough it's not going to stop you. I stopped training for a while because my Instructor bailed out on me, (Went to the Airlines) So far I've had two instructors who went to the airlines and I'm VERY selective on who I pick. Either there is a ramp up in jobs or I stink as a student pilot, (Maybe a little of both) I love flying though and I will not let it stop me.

I think the idea mentioned is a great idea. Make airports social places. The airport where I live (48X) is a grass strip, I visited a few times and took some photos after about 1 month they fenced off the airport. I didn't do anything bad I just wanted to look around maybe talk to some pilots there. That tells me I'm not wanted there, there are quite a few people who don't want GA to grow but that is the only way it will survive long term.

GA is not going anywhere.

Will it shrink? Will it be more exclusive? Probably. But unless the government outlaws it, it'll still exist on a decent scale. There's a bit too much doom and gloom on that front.

Don't let the perception shown by rural airports color reality. Go to any major urban area and see how packed the GA airports are. Heck, go to several places in Florida where you live. GA is thriving in these places and it's busier then ever.

We'll never have the hay-day of busy rural airports again, but there's still plenty going on.
 
<SNIP>

Selling aviation is like selling crack, after the discovery flight, folks who can afford to learn how to fly (same demographic as the folks who can afford a ATV or used ski boat) tend to continue with lessons, my closing ratio was rather good after the 30 minute, 99 buck discovery flights.
I'm not sure where you're getting your figures, but I've done the calculations on both a 30 year old Skyhawk, and a five year old 21' bowrider, and the airplane would cost at least triple what the boat would, all in, on a per year basis.

<SNIP>Because they would be an honest organization. Only an organization that recognizes the failures it represents can fix those failures, and 'it isn't cool anymore' is that very most critical failure. PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO FLY CRAPPY LITTLE PLANES! People don't want to spend a ton of money and not get much in return.

I believe the Captain has a point. In any recreational activity, there seems to be a minimum level that people will accept. If most learning were done in a two seater that had the modernity and appeal of a Cirrus, I think you'd have a lot more takers than the typical $120 per hour for a 20 year old Skyhawk.

Airplanes were never "cheap" even for the folks living in that "golden age"

Back in 1971, my father bought a new Skylane. IIRC, it was $20,000 bare, and got $5,000 worth of radios, two navcoms plus indicators, audio panel, and a transponder, no DME or autopilot. This would have bought a nice house at the time. When I started flying, whenever I got a medical, my doc would ask me if I was flying much. After I answered him, he'd invariably say how expensive it was getting, and this was a man who with a doctor's income.


<SNIP> Again it come back to marketing and public perception. Recreational boating is less practical than GA, but around me far more people own boats. Many middle class people own boats that cost 50 to 100k, but far less middle class people own even a 30k used plane. I live in NJ, and there are several deaths related to boating every year. And if you have a house at the shore, those boats can be damn loud. The main thing is any person can take a test, and a few hour safety course and legally be able to use a boat, so there is not a direct equivalent, flying takes not just money but commitment.

You must have a different perception of middle income than I do. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood, no one owns a boat. Of those handful that I do know from other places who have access to a boat, they own it jointly with a brother or sister, and the one that was the most expensive may barely have scratched $50,000 when it was new.

Also, a lot of people have made the airplane to boat comparison, I don't see the equivalence. For most people, an airplane is a means of transportation. It may be entertainment to the pilot, but most passengers are rather bored by it. A boat, on the other hand, is entertainment. I've been looking at a used 21' bowrider, if I can extract an actual market wage from my employer I just might go get it. It legally (and very comfortably) seats nine. We can invite another family, or my daughters can bring friends. We'll pull an inflatable, a kneeboard, and a wakeboard at various times, stop to swim, and eat lunch. If we had an airplane, it would just the four of us, and we'd have to be going somewhere or three quarters of us would have no interest. That means we'd have to find free weekends, which is kind of tough, and then we'd have to find somewhere to go, and arrange for ground transportation and lodging, and of course, pay for all that, which sends the cost even higher.

Boating is an activity which can more easily be shared and enjoyed with family and friends. Not to mention that it takes much less training and testing to take a boat out on a lake.

You got it. Everyone loves the boat, only the pilot loves the airplane.
 
You don't need a license and a bunch of expensive training to drive a jet ski (or a small boat). Not to mention the difference in price between an jet ski and an airplane.

Depends on the state these days. Some states have started licensing PWC and recreation boat operations, but yes, the licensing level is on the Drivers License level. There is Swiss company that will sell you a Jet Ski for over a quarter of a million.:lol:
 
Again it come back to marketing and public perception. Recreational boating is less practical than GA, but around me far more people own boats. Many middle class people own boats that cost 50 to 100k, but far less middle class people own even a 30k used plane. I live in NJ, and there are several deaths related to boating every year. And if you have a house at the shore, those boats can be damn loud. The main thing is any person can take a test, and a few hour safety course and legally be able to use a boat, so there is not a direct equivalent, flying takes not just money but commitment.

Motorcycles are the same thing, arguable less practical than a GA plane, just as dangerous, possible even slightly more dangerous, but yet far more excepted and popular. Honestly, I fly a plane, and think the motorcycle people are crazy.

So yes, I think that if we had planes that were perceived as safe, and cost 100K, more people would fly, because average people spend lots of money on expensive recreational activities with similar safety records, and are less practical. Its all about cost, marketing, public awareness, and providing a warm open community that the public wants to be part of.

You don't need a license to operate a boat (though some politicians would love that), you can operate a boat in low visibility conditions without extra certification and training, you can carry more folks in a boat (no need to worry about weight limits), don't need an airstrip (can either trailer the boat or dock it), etc. etc. etc.

In the end, a boat can be expensive but one can get in at a lower cost and do so much more quickly than aircraft. There's much less regulation and a greater level of perceived safety.

You don't need a license and a bunch of expensive training to drive a jet ski (or a small boat). Not to mention the difference in price between an jet ski and an airplane.

Mari is right on point.
 
One can get into aviation for $5000 no training or license required and be flying today.
 
In Florida? Where?

Used ultralights. FL is also a hotbed of skydiving. And hangglider aerotowing, couple of private fields that just tow hanggliders. There is also some paraglider winching and buddy rope launched beach condo Soaring.
 
In Florida? Where?

Anywhere. Perfectly good used flying Pt 103 Ultralights are available for $5000. That's all you need to fly for fun, and it's way more fun than a 172 especially when by yourself.

I think if someone like Cirrus took on the Pt 103 market and made a really good one for $35-$45k, a large recreational industry would emerge. It's also easier to use internationally.
 
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GA is not going anywhere.

Will it shrink? Will it be more exclusive? Probably. But unless the government outlaws it, it'll still exist on a decent scale. There's a bit too much doom and gloom on that front.

Don't let the perception shown by rural airports color reality. Go to any major urban area and see how packed the GA airports are. Heck, go to several places in Florida where you live. GA is thriving in these places and it's busier then ever.

KSPG in Downtown Saint Petersburg FL I go there all of the time, it's my favorite airport. There is a good amount of GA activity there but no way will I call it "Busy".

KPIE in Clearwater has less GA activity than KSPG but you have students learning how to fly. The bigger planes take off from there so you will see a trainer once in a while.

KCLW They have a lot of tie downs airplanes but not much activity during the week.

Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT trying to paint doom and gloom. I'm just writing my observations from what I see everyday while driving past these airports.

I'm looking for the opportunity to have GA thrive and if there is a way I can help let me know!
 
One can get into aviation for $5000 no training or license required and be flying today.


If you want to fly a paraglider or a hang glider you can be flying solo, at a very low altitude, your first day. A rating for either one can be had for less than $1500, and used equipment can be had for $3500, all new for maybe twice that.
 
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