a real and present danger

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Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
I'm not one to rat some one out to the feds, but I'm really concerned that some unsuspecting pilot is going to get hurt with an aircraft that is being worked on by 2 non A&Ps.
This aircraft sat in the weeds on OKH's north side for well over 15 years because I told the owner his aircraft had serious corrosion in the rear wing spar and refused to do an annual.
Now these two pilots have dragged this beech musketeer out of the weeds, removed the 160 horse engine and installed a 150 used Lycoming. (no paper work) They are now cleaning the aircraft and getting it ready to sell.

FSDO is not working So I'm really at a loss as to what to do.
 
I’m not one to rat people out, but if someone’s life is potentially at risk, than something needs to be done. With that said, any thorough pre-buy on this aircraft should reveal these issues, not to mention the lack of log entries for the engine swap. Lots of red flags should be raised by the potential buyer and his/her mechanic.
 
Call the FSDO anyway, and then the airport manager.
 
What's the crime? Pulling an airplane out of the weeds to clean it up?
 
Every FSDO has people working and available for essential safety issues. Have you tried calling your FSDO or the safety hotline? You should have.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Every FSDO has people working and available for essential safety issues. Have you tried calling your FSDO or the safety hotline? You should have.
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I have e-mail direct to my PMI, I get an automated response
he knows the aircraft, but he doesn't know the latest about the new work.
 
Ryanb said:
If the airplane is unairworthy and in the state that it’s described as, than Tom has every reason to be concerned.
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Sure. But he has no more authority on the matter than the guys that drug it out of the weeds. In fact he has less, unless he’s been messing with someone else's plane.
 
Stewartb said:
What's the crime? Pulling an airplane out of the weeds to clean it up?
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The issue isn't with the mission, its with the details. Bob and Bob (names changed to protect identity of the guilty) in the ever elusive means of flying for cheap see this hulk. They drag it out, clean it off, lube it up. Make a few repairs with bailing wire and twine. Find some engine (wrong engine) that is capable of converting dinosaurs into noise and smoke and bolt it up. They now have an aircraft that is now physically capable of leaving the earth under its own power for at least some amount of time. That is the crime, the aircraft is not legally airworthy. The bigger danger is to them, any unsuspecting passengers, and the general public which they overfly.

An airplane is not like an old car or tractor, that so long as the tires hold air and the engine makes noise, is safe to operate. While it is admirable to restore a non-flying aircraft back to the world of the living, it must be done the right way. People that do what the OP describes give aviation a bad name when they go and hurt themselves or others. I've seen it happen before, and I'm sure I'll see it happen again.
 
Stewartb said:
What's the crime? Pulling an airplane out of the weeds to clean it up?
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Salty said:
Sure. But he has no more authority on the matter than the guys that drug it out of the weeds. In fact he has less, unless he’s been messing with someone else's plane.
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Way back in 2000 I refused to annual it, why would I go back into that liability loop.
 
Remember if it is cheap enough, some one will buy it.
 
Go to google maps and search A.J. Eisenberg airport, zoom I until you can see the big hangar to the north, its the aircraft behind the hangar.
it has sat there since 2000 +-
 
Salty said:
Sure. But he has no more authority on the matter than the guys that drug it out of the weeds. In fact he has less, unless he’s been messing with someone else's plane.
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Nope, but he still has every right to be concerned.

As I mentioned above, any thorough pre-buy should reveal these anomalies.
 
Ryanb said:
Nope, but he still has every right to be concerned.

As I mentioned above, any thorough pre-buy should reveal these anomalies.
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I could be concerned about a lot of things that are none of my business.
 
Some ones first annual will be a horror story.
 
Unless you see them trying to fly it then I would mind my own business. Do you know for a fact that they are trying to sell it as a usable airplane? Maybe they had a motor they are trying to sell to the experimental crowd and are just using the airframe to be able to show buyers that it runs. How do you know that one of them doesn't have an A&P certificate or that there was no paperwork involved with the engine swap. You are making alot of assumptions just based on something you think you saw.
 
Sneak in and spray paint "EXPERIMENTLE" on the side. Make sure you spell it wrong so any would be flyer would be concerned about getting in it.
 
Tom-D said:
Some ones first annual will be a horror story.
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Maybe, maybe not. It could be exactly what you think it is, in which case someone could get suckered into buying and flying a deathtrap. On the other hand, are you sure they aren't working in cooperation with an A&P/IA to do the work and get it properly inspected and signed off? It's happened before. And some Mousketeers did have 150HP Lycomings, at least according to the TCDS.

Buddy of mine bought an older airplane that needed a fair amount of repair. He did the work himself, with an A&P/IA supervising and inspecting along the way to make sure it was done right and all the paperwork (which had numerous problems when he bought it) was done right and past deficiencies fixed. If you were to drive past the hangar, though, it looked an awful lot like a non-A&P doing repair work on a type certificated airplane.

All that said... if you're thinking it's a Bubba patch job, let the FSDO know. I mean, if they're doing that much work they have to be expecting a visit at some point.
 
kmacht said:
Unless you see them trying to fly it then I would mind my own business. Do you know for a fact that they are trying to sell it as a usable airplane? Maybe they had a motor they are trying to sell to the experimental crowd and are just using the airframe to be able to show buyers that it runs. How do you know that one of them doesn't have an A&P certificate or that there was no paperwork involved with the engine swap. You are making alot of assumptions just based on something you think you saw.
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Because I know both of them.
It's a small airport, every body knows every thing
 
MYOB - You don't know what they are doing or what their intentions are. Maybe they are working with an A&P who is going to sign off on the work. Maybe they are just putting it together to sell then whoever buys it if they do any due diligence at all will realize the engine doesn't match and there is no sign off. Not super hard to figure out a change like that.
 
Unless you have proof that they are trying to sell it as airworthy, it's really much ado about nothing. If they want to swap a Lycosaur into it without an A&P sign off and kill themselves, let Darwin have at it. The moral question comes into it if they let it get off of the ground with anyone in it other than themselves.
 
Would an average pre-buy inspection detect the problem?
 
DFH65 said:
MYOB - You don't know what they are doing or what their intentions are. Maybe they are working with an A&P who is going to sign off on the work. Maybe they are just putting it together to sell then whoever buys it if they do any due diligence at all will realize the engine doesn't match and there is no sign off. Not super hard to figure out a change like that.
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As far as I know, an A&P cannot sign off on a swap to a different engine, so this horse is dead on the ground. And you'd be wrong, BTW, about it being easy to detect; an engine of the same form factor but different specs would likely go unnoticed. I'd like to know what was going on, especially as this airplane has had dangerous corrosion detected.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
As far as I know, an A&P cannot sign off on a swap to a different engine, so this horse is dead on the ground. And you'd be wrong, BTW, about it being easy to detect; an engine of the same form factor but different specs would likely go unnoticed. I'd like to know what was going on, especially as this airplane has had dangerous corrosion detected.
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Exactly right...I believe you are correct. It’s good to mind your own business 99% of the time, but if someone’s life is going to potentially be at risk without them knowing, than action needs to be taken in some form or fashion.
 
Tom-D said:
Go to google maps and search A.J. Eisenberg airport, zoom I until you can see the big hangar to the north, its the aircraft behind the hangar.
it has sat there since 2000 +-
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If its in as good a condition as the other equipment that appears to be around that hangar, itll never fly again!
 
Wow, surprised as some of these comments. I would hope that any pre-buy would uncover an illegal engine swap. I checked all the S/N's against the logs when I performed my pre-buy...
 
Leave it alone, don't be a busybody - unless you have certain knowledge of bad intent, you're operating in ignorance. Maybe they don't know the regs, and will drag in an A&P later, and learn they've messed up. Maybe it's an exercise in self-education; maybe it's going to on static display. Maybe you mis-identified the engine and the qauls of the actors.

You can do anything you want, to any airplane, as long as you don't fly it, or pass it off as airworthy. One of the best things you can do is keep your nose out of other airplane owner's business.
 
If you wanna do ramp checks, get a job with the faa.
 
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