donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
Is it a requirement that GA airports have fences with gates now?
A question on airport security
- Thread starter donjohnston
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nope
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Bro do you even lift
Gates......fence.......security......
BGF_Yankee
Line Up and Wait
No, several do not. On the flip side, the FAA would like to see them at GA airports though. They are "suggesting" it to a couple around me.
donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
Okay, thanks.
I thought I read somewhere that after 9/11, if you received federal funding that a fence was required.
I thought I read somewhere that after 9/11, if you received federal funding that a fence was required.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
Most fences at GA airports are more accurately called "Wildlife Fences". That is why they are primarily funded, to keep deer or other large mammals off the airport. That requires a full perimeter fence with gates that remain closed to be effective.
chemgeek
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chemgeek
No, but the FAA has been encouraging applications for grants to fund security. A few years ago they wanted you to to do this before asking for additional airport improvements,
You can drive right from the road onto the runway at my airport. No gate to stop you.
BigBadLou
Final Approach
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Lou
Most of our local GA airports have fences and gates.
But the gates don't really close on any of them.
I fear the day when crooks find out. And when they also realize how much a used Garmin can go for on fleaBay. And when they put the 2 & 2 together.
But the gates don't really close on any of them.
I fear the day when crooks find out. And when they also realize how much a used Garmin can go for on fleaBay. And when they put the 2 & 2 together.
RyanShort1
Final Approach
They will find out how many pilots in Texas are armed with pocket shotguns... lol.
texasag93
Line Up and Wait
Yes.
It lets airport managers feel more important. It helps their little brains feel bigger.
It lets airport managers feel more important. It helps their little brains feel bigger.
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Drake the Outlaw
And how many hangars are equipped with welding torches and bandsaws.
DutchRoller
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DutchRoller
Yes but they are better than having fences without gates.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Wow. Your ex-wife run off with an airport manager or something?
A lot more airports got fences after 9/11. The grants were available because "Security!" and they didn't want to have slices of dead deer along the runway any more, so they said "Yeah, sure, we'll take a free fence."
DutchRoller
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DutchRoller
I take it that you don't like airport managers. Why? Don't you believe they perform a valuable service. Most of the ones I've known do a great job. I'd hate to think what airports would be like if there wasn't someone managing them.
Shepherd
Final Approach
If it is privately owned, you are not forced to put up a fence.
painless
Line Up and Wait
This is my airport’s idea of security. Access/taxiway from hangars to the terminal building/fuel farm. Now have to taxi way around to get fuel, which I now refuse to buy here. Reason given?? Security concerns. Never mind the only people that have access cards to get through the gated fences are airport tenants/pilots. Non carrier airport.
BGF_Yankee
Line Up and Wait
Well that's a nasty remark. My tenants don't seem to mind the perimeter fence as it discourages animals at the very least. At the most, with a good vehicle gate, it also discourages the lookie-loos from wandering onto the airfield and in/around their hangars, or tampering with the fuel farm. Like all things though, if a crook wants in bad enough, he/she'll find a way. Outside of armed guards, you will have a difficult time keeping people out 100%, but most people tend to get frustrated and leave if their efforts to get onto the airport our discouraged. Being an airport manager and a tenant at my airfield, I don't want someone that I do not know hanging out around mine (or anyone else's) hangar.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
You are seeing more of this to separate vehicles and aircraft. The FAA is encouraging this due to too many incidents, and at least one recent fatality, caused by Vehicle/Pedestrian Deviations. Often times it is non-airport people that get in the wrong place, but the driver in the one fatality I know of off hand was a CFI in a pickup truck. Airport security is not always about terrorists or even criminals, its to keep grandma from accidentally driving across a runway at the wrong time. Twice in my career have I seen events where a confused senior citizen followed an airport card holder through a gate, then proceeded onto the airfield. I have powerpoints from the FAA documenting even more.
But people like to have something to get bent out of shape over sometimes.
Back to my original post though. In my experience, the FAA usually funds fences as a wildlife deterrent. Even then, it is usually only funded after there has been a critical strike, and then a one year long wildlife assessment to determine the need. Fences aren't cheap.
BGF_Yankee
Line Up and Wait
It's been my experience that airport people are typically the worst drivers on an airport. I can't count on two hands the number of times that I've been almost hit by cars (on a decent sized airport) while flying the C208, C90, and DHC6...not small planes to miss! I can at least count on one hand the number of times I've had to go around because someone was walking or on a golf cart with their dog down the runway.
Kenny Phillips
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The ex-FIL was picking us up at their local county airport. He arrived on a road leading to hangars far from the FBO. No problem, he just drove down the taxiway. At a towered airport. I took over the driving for the trip to his house. No repercussions, however.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yeah, but this is *inside the fence* of an airport. Yes, an airport with a fence, that decided to block tenants from taxiing straight down for fuel! And an idiot with a car, if they can get through the airport fence, can just drive onto the runway instead, nothing blocking that. This one's nothing short of stupid. KMNM. https://goo.gl/maps/2kyqesGy1tk
midwestpa24
Final Approach
Hmmm...beats me. I could see if they were trying to stop all the evil GA guys (sarcasm) from getting to what appears to be a terminal ramp, but they don't have commercial service currently. Must have done it from some reason, but I couldn't guess from here.
texasag93
Line Up and Wait
Wow. Your ex-wife run off with an airport manager or something?
A lot more airports got fences after 9/11. The grants were available because "Security!" and they didn't want to have slices of dead deer along the runway any more, so they said "Yeah, sure, we'll take a free fence."
No, she did not.
Our airport used to know have a fence. Access was easy. Driving up to an A&Ps shop did not involve calling them or waiting for UPS to come out and zip in.
We used to be able to drive out to the ramp to load our airplanes. Now we have to have an 'escort' to walk (or golf cart) in front of our car to get to the airplane.
Different gates require different modes of entry. Some, you can call the FBO and they will remotely open the gate. Some gates require a key card. Some gates require a code for a punch pad.
I really like how the assistant airport manager gets to drive around all day looking for stuff to do with annoying yellow flashers on. I have never talked to him as I have never had a reason to.
The city got rid of many (maybe all, I do not go to the meetings anymore) pilots on their advisory board.
I did talk to the airport manager's boss (while the position was vacant) about a restaurant on the field. He rolled his eyes and said, no way. 'There is not need for a restaurant.' This was done while he was eating a hamburger that I made for the safety seminar that our group hosts every quarter at the airport.
texasag93
Line Up and Wait
Pilots are not idiots. As a public servant, treating those who you serve like idiots is tiring.
I have limited experience with them as I do not like being around people who treat me poorly. The city's view of the airport sets the tone for how the airport is managed and the goals that are trying to be obtained.
Our city views pilots (not corporations) as people with money and that flying is a hobby that gets in the way of corporate activities going on at the airport.
I tried to point out the 7% flow charge is a revenue stream and the feedback I received was that it is not a large revenue stream.
That being said, the tower controllers are awesome. They are not employed by the city.
DutchRoller
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DutchRoller
You have limited experience with them yet you make such broad assumptions about their capabilities, motivations, etc. That is the action of a bigot.
As to them being public servants, you seem to think that means they are there to serve your individual whims and desires. They are not. They are there to serve the needs of the public as a whole, not some self entitled individual or set of individuals.
I see attitudes like yours from other pilots as well as members of some other groups that think they are special and deserve special treatment. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic.
You are right, pilots are not idiots. At least not as a group. However some are. Sad.
painless
Line Up and Wait
KMNM is the definition of stupid when it comes to airport management, sorry to say. Wonderful facility, but it’s being run into the ground by a clueless county board. I could give examples that would make you go, “huh???!!”
painless
Line Up and Wait
I can assure you that the tenants at KMNM are not enjoying “getting bent out of shape” over this access issue, nor the long list of poor management decisions our county board has made of late.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
But none of that has anything to do with a fence.
Case in point, my home drome. It's the third-busiest airport in the state, despite being GA-only - No military, no airlines. Class D. It's got a fence, but none of the issues you talk about with the exception of the avionics shop, which has a people gate they need to buzz you through (due as much to the design of their facility as anything else - The only outside door outside the fence goes directly into the shop itself).
I have one gate card that gets me in any gate on the field except directly onto the terminal ramp. I can go to my hangar, my friends' hangars, the maintenance hangar over on the other side of the field, etc. All I had to do was read their rules booklet (which essentially tells people how to not drive into movement areas and how they're responsible for everyone they let through the gate) and boom, I got the card and they asked me which gates it should be good for.
What you have is not a fence problem. It's an airport management problem. And if you don't like the people who are managing your airport, then do what you need to do to get rid of them and get new people.
painless
Line Up and Wait
Wish it were that easy. We have been trying to do just that for years here at KMNM. This past election, several people were on the ballot for the county board that were pro-airport and saw its importance to the community ant the need to make it more pilot friendly. Unfortunately, many county residents don’t see the return on tax payers investment in the airport, so none of them won election.
I could go on, but my head is about to explode———