A&P License

ajstoner21

ajstoner21

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Andrew
So, A local community college here offers classes to become an A&P mechanic.

Its basically an "Associates Degree in Aviation Technology" or something like that. It can either be a degree (if you have the gen ed classes, which mine from my other ocllege should transfer), or you can just get the A&P certificates without the "degree".

Working full time, I would have to take the night classes. They said it would take about 3 years taking night classes, about 78 credits at this school. Each credit-hour at this school is $50

To those A&P mechanics out there, does this sound reasonable?

I haven't done much research, but I've spoken to other guys I work with who have done this exact program and they recommended it.

I honestly don't intend to do this for a "job", maybe just for the fun of learning it, or trying to help friends I know who own planes.

Is there anything I should be extra careful about?
 
I would go for it, to be near a school that even offers it is a real opportunity. It really does take that much study. The other way of doing it would take you away from your day job significantly... IF you can even get it done the other way. In the grand scheme of things, the money is not that much.
A+Ps are getting harder to find - if you own, or plan to own it would be a tremendous asset.
 
It sounds like the cheapest way to get an A&P today. Get your ticket and have fun.

Kevin
 
This is what I want to do as well, but nobody locally has classes. I'm an experienced auto tech and will have to take a large pay cut to be an apprentice A&P. I do intend on doing it as a job (and flying for fun). I just don't know how to get into the field, Prior Aviation hires entry level techs occasionally, so would I take that job (and a massive pay cut, I'm ok with that temporarily) get my experience, take the tests, get a big raise? Or is it not that simple? I'm really tired of working on cars, tired of customers coming in with bald tires, bad brakes, 2 child seats in the car, and having them say "just fix what's under warranty"
 
I'm really tired of working on cars, tired of customers coming in with bald tires, bad brakes, 2 child seats in the car, and having them say "just fix what's under warranty"
Click to expand...

I am hearing that if your goal is to increase your bottom line with mechanic-ing skills, it is not through your average auto shop or even airplane work, but specializing in top-end autos. Become a Jaguar or Porsche guru.
Or if you simply like airplanes and money is not your main goal - become an A+P.
Given a choice I would do the latter, I would rather be in a low-paying job that I did not hate than the reverse.
 
I've known airline A&P's with W2 earnings over $100k. These were guys at the top of the union pay scale who worked lots of overtime.

But it is a lot like pilots. The top jobs are very scarce, only a few make it to the top, and there are a lot of dues to pay along the way.
 
Assuming the community college offering the program is properly accredited (i.e., one of the regional accreditation associations, not those business and career associations), the nice thing about the degree program is that the credits count towards a bachelor's degree. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to complete a degree in, say, education or math in only four more semesters, but many universities with aviation programs offer a 2-year "top-off" program of about 60 credit hours to complete a Bachelor's in Aviation Management (Maintenance) or the like for holders of AAS degrees in AMT, and that can help if you want to work and advance in a large maintenance organization (MRO outfit, airlines, etc).
 
eMKay said:
I'm really tired of working on cars, tired of customers coming in with bald tires, bad brakes, 2 child seats in the car, and having them say "just fix what's under warranty"
Click to expand...
This mentality is alive and well in aviation. Owners may bring in an airplane with significant airworthiness issues and balk about having them repaired or try to get you to do a jury-rigged repair to save money. If there is a mechanical problem contributing to an accident don't be surprised if the owners or the owner's estate sics the lawyers or FAA on you.
 
"5-1253 CREDIT FOR LIGHT-SPORT AIRCRAFT PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE TOWARD MECHANIC QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS UNDER § 65.77. A repairman (light-sport aircraft) with a maintenance rating may document time working on either ELSA or SLSA. To apply for a mechanic’s rating, the repairman must show that he or she has at least 18 months of practical experience working on either powerplants or airframes, or that he or she has at least 30 months of practical experience working on airframes or powerplants concurrently. To be eligible, the applicant must have verifiable experience in 50 percent of the subject areas listed for the rating sought (see 14 CFR part 147 appendices B, C, and D). One month’s practical experience is 160 hours of documented time."

Has nothing to do with the school you inquire about, but might be of interest to some. I met one man who got his A&P this way. Have to take the 120 hour Repairman Maintenance course to get that certificate.
 
I should add, I already have a Bachelors of Science Degree in Aerospace Engineering.

This A&P thing is from Tarrant County College. (www.tccd.edu)

Northwest Campus provides a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) approved Part 147 aircraft maintenance program.


Program highlights:
  • Two year A.A.S. degree or certificate of completion in four areas of specialization
  • Highest FAA exam licensure pass rate in Texas
  • 90% student placement in job force
  • $3 Million in training equipment
  • Outstanding Faculty – 5 FAA Designated Mechanics Examiners
Click to expand...

http://www.tccd.edu/Courses_and_Programs/Program_Offerings/Aviation/Degrees_Certificates_AVIA.html

It looks like its a decent deal to me.

Pamphlet I got also says

"Graduates enter the workforce with the equivalent of three years' work experience"
...
"Students who successfully complete the Aviation Maintenance Program will gain an Associate of Applied Science Degree and will be prepared to take the FAA examination for Airframe and Powerplant licenses."
 
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Gary F said:
This mentality is alive and well in aviation. Owners may bring in an airplane with significant airworthiness issues and balk about having them repaired or try to get you to do a jury-rigged repair to save money. If there is a mechanical problem contributing to an accident don't be surprised if the owners or the owner's estate sics the lawyers or FAA on you.
Click to expand...

LOL, yeah that's just crazy. But I'm used to turning customers down. I tell them to take it down to your corner shop or Pep Boys if you want it rigged back together, this is the dealer, it gets repaired to dealer specs. I also would rather get paid less for a job I like rather than work one I hate.
 
this is interesting. I'm pondering a similar idea. Looking down the road at or near retirement, considering a volunteer or mission support with someone like MARC Alaska or Mission Aviation Fellowship - my first thought was to look into some way to refresh my '70s Navy Avionics training but now looking into a full A&P cert...
 
Go for it! Makes me *almost* willing to move back to Texas.

Almost.

There are 2 A&P schools in the Denver area. One is Redstone (for profit) and the entire A&P program is $39K. The other one is non-profit, vo-tech, part of the Denver Public Schools. The entire program is $20K. That includes books, tools, shop, etc.
Tarrant County is about $4K.

If the Tarrant County program is blessed by the FAA, go for it!
 
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Holy Monkeys! I had no idea that Redstone was that pricey! Since I and they are at Jeffco-uh-Metro, I was going to check into them. Doesn't address my "I'm sick of IT work and would love to do something else" but at that price, I would be better off just making charitable contributions to the organization rather than going back to school.
 
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gkainz said:
Holy Monkeys! I had no idea that Redstone was that pricey! Since I and they are at Jeffco-uh-Metro, I was going to check into them. Doesn't address my "I'm sick of IT work and would love to do something else" but at that price, I would be better off just making charitable contributions to the organization rather than going back to school.
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Gotta remember Redstone is for-profit. The curriculum is the same at both schools - in fact, must be the same at any school that the FAA blesses. There's a minimum "contact hours" required by the FAA. There's another A&P school in Rangely (IIRC) but that's a bit of a commute.

The program, as defined by the FAA, is in 3 parts - General (about 4 months), Airframe or Powerplant, each 8 months. EGOS runs on a 8 am - 2:30 pm schedule for 6 contact hours a day and is located at FTG. A number of people have expressed interest in the evening program but right now there's not enough to financially justify it. DPS (Denver Public Schools) revamped how the units are lumped together, so they follow the same concept of credit hours of the other DPS catalogs. General is about $4K, Airframe and Powerplant are each about $7.5K. Redstone is more on a semester concept if you look at its website. Each estimates $1800 or so for tools.

I took the General a few years ago when between jobs. Got exempted from a number of the units (but still had to pay for them - of course) due to previous training.

Side note: One of the units is "math" which I went ahead and showed up for class. Instructor didn't like the fact that I looked at the problem on the board for about 10 seconds then said what the answer was. He insisted I go up to the blackboard and work the problem. So I went up to the blackboard and worked the problem in base8 then base 16 then base10. Come on - it was simple arithmetic, not math! He never asked me again. He's also no longer teaching there.

As a bonus (but probably not for anyone here), the EGOS program is considered a minor in the Aviation program at Metro State College (BA or BS, don't remember which).
 
I think I am actually going to do it. It is FAA approved and seems to be a great deal.

Just curious, for those "Freelance" A&P's out there, what do you charge per hour for your work?
 
eMKay said:
This is what I want to do as well, but nobody locally has classes. I'm an experienced auto tech and will have to take a large pay cut to be an apprentice A&P. I do intend on doing it as a job (and flying for fun). I just don't know how to get into the field, Prior Aviation hires entry level techs occasionally, so would I take that job (and a massive pay cut, I'm ok with that temporarily) get my experience, take the tests, get a big raise? Or is it not that simple? I'm really tired of working on cars, tired of customers coming in with bald tires, bad brakes, 2 child seats in the car, and having them say "just fix what's under warranty"
Click to expand...

As an experienced mechanic in the middle of nowhere can self study, get the FSDO to sign you off to take the tests based on your experience and their face to face interview of you. You can then go to several places to do the written and practical tests. If you buy one of the RV practice kits they sell you'll learn enough sheetmetal and if you buy a fabric practice kit, same there. Turning wrenches is turning wrenches so you just learn the idiosyncrasies and most importantly, The Rules as mechanics is applied to aviation.
 
Henning said:
As an experienced mechanic in the middle of nowhere can self study, get the FSDO to sign you off to take the tests based on your experience and their face to face interview of you. You can then go to several places to do the written and practical tests. If you buy one of the RV practice kits they sell you'll learn enough sheetmetal and if you buy a fabric practice kit, same there. Turning wrenches is turning wrenches so you just learn the idiosyncrasies and most importantly, The Rules as mechanics is applied to aviation.
Click to expand...

Being the best auto mechanic in the world means nada when qualifying to take the A&P tests. You either have the 30 months working under an A&P or you've got a certificate from a Part 147 school, or you were in the military and have the qualifying MOS/AFSC and the required documentation. You don't "self study" unless you at least have the above experience/training.
 
jnmeade said:
"5-1253 CREDIT FOR LIGHT-SPORT AIRCRAFT PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE TOWARD MECHANIC QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS UNDER § 65.77. A repairman (light-sport aircraft) with a maintenance rating may document time working on either ELSA or SLSA. To apply for a mechanic’s rating, the repairman must show that he or she has at least 18 months of practical experience working on either powerplants or airframes, or that he or she has at least 30 months of practical experience working on airframes or powerplants concurrently. To be eligible, the applicant must have verifiable experience in 50 percent of the subject areas listed for the rating sought (see 14 CFR part 147 appendices B, C, and D). One month’s practical experience is 160 hours of documented time."

Has nothing to do with the school you inquire about, but might be of interest to some. I met one man who got his A&P this way. Have to take the 120 hour Repairman Maintenance course to get that certificate.
Click to expand...

Mike Daniels (one of our podcast hosts) is going this route after many years in motorcycle maintenance. He'll be sharing his experiences on the podcast starting in the next two episodes. He's doing it for fun; the conversation I had on the phone with him last week at his first repairman level class for LSAs, he sounded like a kid in a candy store.
 
gkainz said:
this is interesting. I'm pondering a similar idea. Looking down the road at or near retirement, considering a volunteer or mission support with someone like MARC Alaska or Mission Aviation Fellowship - my first thought was to look into some way to refresh my '70s Navy Avionics training but now looking into a full A&P cert...
Click to expand...

MAF had some age requirements many many moons ago. Sorry to thread-hijack, but definitely start talking to their recruiter's early if this is one of your dreams.

This is decades old information from the days when most of their slots were filled from Moody's school in Elizabethton, TN and MAF was still based in Redlands, CA. I visited both organizations back in the day... First Moody's offices in Chicago, then drove to Elizabethton, then later flew from VNY out to Redlands to talk some more with them.

Super professional and nice folks all around back then. That probably hasn't changed.

Back then, technically skilled folks who wanted to work for JAARS were more highly sought-after than A&P rated pilots, who were always beating down their door. I mention it because you probably fit both roles, which is a significant "plus", I would assume... Even more today than then.
 
1st I am a Spartan School of Aeronautics grad. I highly reccommend the or another reputable school like Dakota Aero, etc. The reason is if you go to Spartan and get your Airframe first you might get caught in a hiring frenzy at American which is across the field. They bring in MD 80 and do checks and overhaul. Second I ended up making over $100,000 a year as a Ramp mech with all the OT. Next, when you apply for a job, they say "You gotan A&P?" If you say yes they ask, "Where from?" If youve been to a recognizable school such as Spartan you get hired on the spot.
 
I think you gotta ask yourself why you'd spend all that time and money for a credential you'll never use. The shopowners I know are only interested in hiring experienced techs, and none of them pay anything close to AE wages.

If you are a good mechanic, the paper doesn't mean much since you can always work under the supervision of a licensed mechaninc and get the same results on your own plane. Or at least that's what I've done since 1974.

I considered getting the rating numerous times over the years, but was never able to make it feasible. YMMV.
 
eMKay said:
I'm really tired of working on cars, tired of customers coming in with bald tires, bad brakes, 2 child seats in the car, and having them say "just fix what's under warranty"
Click to expand...

You will find the same cheapskate mentality in the airplane community too..
 
I have thought a lot about that, "Why get something you might not use". I know quite a few airplane owners who have an "old" A&P about to retire. They would be willing to let me work on their planes once I got the rating.

I am also trying to organize an employee flying club where I work, and being able to work on club aircraft would help cut costs.

And even if I never do it. I really like working with my hands, and really like learning this kind of stuff. I hear TCC is an excellent school for A&P license. This will only cost me about $6,000 at most, and if thats all it costs, and I get to spend the next 3 years taking things apart, rebuilding/overhauling things, that sounds like a lot of fun to me.

I am willing to do it for just the experience, even if I never use it.
 
I have worked on airplanes for nearly 12 years. Most people go into aviation and don’t have a clue about the career. They think they will make a lot of money and this and that. I wasted a lot of my life not making the money I could have. I know that some pilots know the truth about aircraft mintenance but some don't really seem to care who is working on their airplane(s).

A guy named Kevin Carter wrote a book about this stuff and I think everyone who wants to work on airplanes should read it. It will really open your eyes.

<ahref="http://www.aircraftmechanicsalary.net">The truth about working as an aircraft mechanic.</a>

Source: http://www.aircraftmechanicsalary.net
 
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