A&P-IAs

Ted DuPuis said:
That depends. My mechanics are not allowed to fly my aircraft without me in them, period. I hold this true for all shops.
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The old man's AI used to do the test flights. No one seemed to be bothered by the fact that he wasn't a certificated pilot.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
<SNIP>
And one thing that every avionics guy I've come across has said to me: "I don't what dip**** worked on this plane last, but he had no idea what he was doing!"
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Fun to be able to correctly say something along the lines of "I think you worked on it last"
 
All I expect is the A&P/IA realize that his livelihood, and my families azzes are on the line, and the work be done,
On time,
On, (or under) budget, (quoted price)
And to my satisfaction. I'm usually satisfied with compliance with, service manual, AC43.13, service bulletin/letter, etc. (follow the regs)

That's the way I do it for others, and I expect the same.
 
How soon would you expect a call when the Mechanic finds a major item of great expense?
 
As soon he has investigated all of the repair/replace options (new, rebuilt, as removed) and labor cost estimates, along with pictures of the problem areas and an email describing the exact nature of the problem. Until then, why bother?
Tom-D said:
How soon would you expect a call when the Mechanic finds a major item of great expense?
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wabower said:
As soon he has investigated all of the repair/replace options (new, rebuilt, as removed) and labor cost estimates, along with pictures of the problem areas and an email describing the exact nature of the problem. Until then, why bother?
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Good point.
 
kgruber said:
320px-Project-triangle.svg.png



Pick any two.
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Yep,
Fast and Good; won't be cheap
Fast and Cheap; won't be good
Good and Cheap; won't be fast.
 
The latest Cessna Pilots Assn magazine has an article on what to ask for and expect of an A&P/AI at Annual.

It's written by Mike Busch so follows his particular philosophy but surprisingly didn't push his maintenance management product hard at all.

Stuff like how to word your request that a detailed list of both required and optional items be provided in writing and that whatever work is going to be done be provided with estimates and work not started unless agreed-upon. Etc...

Decent article.
 
The software used now used by many shops is designed to present information in this manner, we've been using it for ~5 years.



denverpilot said:
The latest Cessna Pilots Assn magazine has an article on what to ask for and expect of an A&P/AI at Annual.

It's written by Mike Busch so follows his particular philosophy but surprisingly didn't push his maintenance management product hard at all.

Stuff like how to word your request that a detailed list of both required and optional items be provided in writing and that whatever work is going to be done be provided with estimates and work not started unless agreed-upon. Etc...

Decent article.
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Tom-D said:
How soon would you expect a call when the Mechanic finds a major item of great expense?
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It depends. Usually I'm doing owner-assisted maintenance and annuals, so he can just call me over and show me, or wait until I show up later that day.

In the (very) unlikely event that I had merely tossed the keys and logs at the mechanic, I'd expect a call that day.
 
wabower said:
Until then, why bother?
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That depends on who the customer is. If you know that he has a pressing need for the plane, you might contact him early so that he can make other plans.

I was in Boston earlier this week and the hotel and a large surrounding area was blacked out by a major substation fire. It still isn't fixed but most of the area is now functioning on temporary generator power - big ones the size of a 40 foot trailer. Getting the word out to the customers that it will be a long time before the grid is repaired allowed the customers to plan/implement the temporary power hookup.

On the other hand, if you are working on a hamburger chaser, I agree with Wayne.

-Skip
 
Don't necessarily agree that he should wait to call until after spending some time researching options - that's billable time, so why waste it if there's a chance the owner will balk, possibly go somewhere else anyway, or refuse for whatever reason to proceed with the repair?

A decent A&P or IA will already have a good idea about what might be involved and should be able to explain those options to the owner without a lot of research into specific quotes etc.

That too is sometimes what I think has been lacking in the industry, and it's the whole reason that Mike Busch found a niche. Pilot/owners and their mechanics need to avoid treating each other as idiots. If they have trust and respect for each other and communicte effectively, there is no need for some third party like Busch to get in between them and translate. If you find yourself in that kind of situation, something has already gone very wrong.

I liked the thought expressed earlier about filtering your decisions on the basis of how you would feel explaining what you did to an NTSB investigator. The line I like to use is that an airplane is a life-support system for an environment in which you won't survive without it. Would you take care of your SCUBA gear the same way?
 
denverpilot said:
The latest Cessna Pilots Assn magazine has an article on what to ask for and expect of an A&P/AI at Annual.

It's written by Mike Busch so follows his particular philosophy but surprisingly didn't push his maintenance management product hard at all.

Stuff like how to word your request that a detailed list of both required and optional items be provided in writing and that whatever work is going to be done be provided with estimates and work not started unless agreed-upon. Etc...

Decent article.
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Mike Busch believes in the 13 month maintenance period, I believe in keeping your aircraft in a condition that a large maintenance projects do not turn up at annual.

My method is more akin to a progressive inspection than an annual. That is why my customers aircraft are not laid up for more than a day or two for the inspection.
 
Mike Busch also seems to believe that there is such a thing as too much maintenance and he is constantly looking for ways and excuses NOT to do something that is recommended or required by the manufacturer, the FAA, or whomever.

For the life of me, I have never seen an airplane that was suffering from too much maintenance!
 
150Mike said:
Mike Busch also seems to believe that there is such a thing as too much maintenance and he is constantly looking for ways and excuses NOT to do something that is recommended or required by the manufacturer, the FAA, or whomever.

For the life of me, I have never seen an airplane that was suffering from too much maintenance!
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changing non life limited items on a schedule, rather than a failure. = too much maintenance.
 
Having known Mike for several years and attended his seminar in Dallas last year, I can assure you that he is a strong advocate of eliminating unnecessary and expensive MX that is of no value to the airplane owner. So am I.

He also adheres to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school of thought, of which I am also a disciple. Many other mechanics and shop owners share this philosophy, for which I'm very grateful. I've owned more than 30 airplanes over the past 50 years, and have seen some absolutely unbelieveable examples of what some shops deem their prerogative to try to force me to do because they think it's a good idea and justified by some mumbo-jumbo interpretation of the regs. Bottom line is that I want my planess to spend their idle time in my hanger where I can fly them rather than in the shop hangar where somebody can work on them and send me big invoices for doing so. Mike feels the same way.




150Mike said:
Mike Busch also seems to believe that there is such a thing as too much maintenance and he is constantly looking for ways and excuses NOT to do something that is recommended or required by the manufacturer, the FAA, or whomever.

For the life of me, I have never seen an airplane that was suffering from too much maintenance!
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wabower said:
Having known Mike for several years and attended his seminar in Dallas last year, I can assure you that he is a strong advocate of eliminating unnecessary and expensive MX that is of no value to the airplane owner. So am I.

He also adheres to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school of thought, of which I am also a disciple. Many other mechanics and shop owners share this philosophy, for which I'm very grateful. I've owned more than 30 airplanes over the past 50 years, and have seen some absolutely unbelieveable examples of what some shops deem their prerogative to try to force me to do because they think it's a good idea and justified by some mumbo-jumbo interpretation of the regs. Bottom line is that I wahem plane hems to spend their idle time in my hanger where I can fly them rather than in the shop hangar where somebody can work on them and send me big invoices for doing so. Mike feels the same way.
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I'm more in the camp where you keep me involved during the year while you do the scheduled servicing in the MM for the aircraft, I'd much rather you oil it, grease it, and clean it, as required than change it at annual.
 
cirrusmx said:
mechanic can or should make the first flight after annualing or working on an airplane. just saying.
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Would you like to pay my insurance to enable me to do that ?
 
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