A new twist: FAA to limit ADS-B/FIS B (traffic) in 2016

[John Collins]

Just an update on the impact. I talked to my FAA contact and got these approximate numbers. Roughly 12,000 aircraft are equipped. About 2300 of these (19%) will have an issue with SDA or SIL being zero. Only about 350 to 500 of these are of the portable variety such as Skyguard. The others may be compliant systems but are likely using a non compliant position source or are not configured properly. My guess is that many of these systems are EAB. For most of these users, the first thing they will notice might be ghosting in the October time frame and no TISB after the beginning of the year.

 

[Cruiser]

So now the non compliant aircraft will get notices from the FAA? IN an effort to correct the invalid signals?

If the FAA is firm on the 2020 mandate, why not turn on the TIS-B signal like the FIS-B it should not make any difference in the conformity process or the timeline. In fact, when people start getting all the benefits, they might actually install the requirements sooner.

 

[John Collins]

So now the non compliant aircraft will get notices from the FAA? IN an effort to correct the invalid signals?

I am not sure what the FAA plans to do. It is probably a good idea to send the aircraft owner a notice, so they are at least aware of their status and have an opportunity to correct it, especially if they think they are compliant in the first place. It is way too early for any enforcement, but a friendly notice is a good thing.

 

[Ozone]

I saw a notice the other day that the FAA is considering ADS-B for glider planes. From what I am reading, with all the antennas & broadcasting of different signals, I estimate that the average glider with have about 10 minutes of battery power and a useful load no more than the weight of a fat chipmunk once the ADS-B requirements are met. I wish that there were a little less OCD behavior by the FAA in this regard.

The boat industry has had their version of ADS-B for years now; one can go buy a compliant system, and self-install it, for about $400

 

[ahkahn]

Looks to me like the FAA is trying to shake out incorrect installations........ sounds like they're doing a good thing, no???

 

[Bob Noel]

Looks to me like the FAA is trying to shake out incorrect installations........ sounds like they're doing a good thing, no???

Fixing installation mistakes - good.

Claiming that it degrades safety if they send traffic information to "uncertified" units - completely bogus.

 

[docmirror]

Dance puppets, dance.

 

[bullwinkle]

The positions can be bogus and there is no way of knowing if it is accurate or not. They are simply untrustworthy, regardless of their potential accuracy. They maybe within a foot of where they claim to be or more than a mile. I have seen portable systems that are hard coded to claim they have great accuracy and integrity but obviously are not.

Edit: The 95% accuracy requirement is about 300 feet or less. The 99.99999% integrity requirement is 1200 feet or less. These are established for surveillance purposes.

Then why not code that traffic and still display it? It could show up on displays marked with a symbol or color coded to show it's "potentially unreliable" data. It's better to see it than not, since 90%+ of the time it will be accurate.

 

[John Collins]

Then why not code that traffic and still display it? It could show up on displays marked with a symbol or color coded to show it's "potentially unreliable" data. It's better to see it than not, since 90%+ of the time it will be accurate.

Not an unreasonable point of view, but as a practical matter the existing TSO C195 and the RTCA DO-317A prohibit this for certified equipment. By broadcasting an ADS-B Out with a SIL or SDA of zero, the device is claiming it can not be trusted. The target will still be available as a TISB, which is generated from radar and can be trusted, so once the change is put into place, traffic that has a position that is self declared to not be trustworthy, will be replaced with a TISB radar generated target that is trustworthy. The loser is the aircraft that has the non compliant equipment as they will no longer get client statu (that is wake up the ground station). If it is a simple configuration issue, which many are, the owner can get that fixed by the avionics installer who screwed up in the first instance. At least they will know about the issue and can deal with it.

 

[retailguy]

Dance puppets, dance.

Love to hear what you think all of us should actually do. You always have the cynical take with zero substance.

You want me to think you're so smart to wax eloquent as you did above. TELL ME. What should I do? What are you doing besides trying to convince us you're so much smarter than the rest of us?

Lead us o brilliant one!

 

[Jay Honeck]

Love to hear what you think all of us should actually do. You always have the cynical take with zero substance.

You want me to think you're so smart to wax eloquent as you did above. TELL ME. What should I do? What are you doing besides trying to convince us you're so much smarter than the rest of us?

Lead us o brilliant one!

My guess: He will lead a popular ADS-B revolt, where we will all pull the breaker on ADS-B out at a given time on a given day.

 

[jsstevens]

My guess: He will lead a popular ADS-B revolt, where we will all pull the breaker on ADS-B out at a given time on a given day.

And blame it on Anonymous...

 

[retailguy]

My guess: He will lead a popular ADS-B revolt, where we will all pull the breaker on ADS-B out at a given time on a given day.

Well, if that's the case, I'm in!


But there sure are sparse details to go along with all the criticism.

 

[denverpilot]

It seems crazy to me that the FAA can essentially play with our lives in order to push an agenda. It's like the kid with the football having a fit and storming off the field.

Ummm... It isn't just FAA.

They said it would be legal, not that they'd give you traffic services.



I'm starting to understand what the "F" in FAA really stands for.

I think the AA stands for All y'All.

LOL!

Does EAA or AOPA have a position on this ?

Bent over.

you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well known is this "Never believe the FAA when ADSB is on the line!!!"

Sadly, true. They've proven they really can't handle the complexity of 1990s technology being implemented in the 2010s.

This is good point Jim. That said, primary radar is still in use today and will be until the 2020 date arrives.

It'll be in use for a long time after that. FAA by their own admission has stated that it isn't going away.

Dance puppets, dance.

Pretty much.

Love to hear what you think all of us should actually do. You always have the cynical take with zero substance.

You want me to think you're so smart to wax eloquent as you did above. TELL ME. What should I do? What are you doing besides trying to convince us you're so much smarter than the rest of us?

Lead us o brilliant one!

Bend over. Bring lube. It'll be more comfortable that way.

 

[Scrabo]

Still isn't stopping company pluging portable units... Here is one from FlyQ email today.. seems sleazy business practice plugging these things to the unaware.

 

[RotorDude]

Still isn't stopping company pluging portable units... Here is one from FlyQ email today.. seems sleazy business practice plugging these things to the unaware.

Aren't portable ADSB-out units going to be outlawed (and effectively disabled) by the end of this year? If so, what's the point of showing them at OSH?

 

[Scrabo]

Aren't portable ADSB-out units going to be outlawed (and effectively disabled) by the end of this year? If so, what's the point of showing them at OSH?

Exactly.... SkyGuard and Slyvision websites make ZERO reference to the fact that these boxes will be just over priced receivers after Jan 2016

 

[hindsight2020]

That looks like a modified copycat of a legacy single-band Skyradar unit, which is what I own but is now discontinued. Even the body architecture is identical sans the little antenna on top.

Caveat emptor, people.