A new level of jerk-dom amongst pilots

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When I read the post title I was expecting something really bad. This hardly qualifies. Your staff broke protocol. Just chalk it up as a lesson learned.

Who knows - by not making a scene or being a jerk yourself you may have set yourself up for a lot more business in the future.

Next time buy the motel on the beach.

You are in the service/hospitality business. Sometimes these things happen. Should be no surprise.
 
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SCCutler said:
Yabut... auto rental is a licensed business in Texas.
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Details details.

The other thing that gets a bit in the way is we pilots are a little used to crew cars or courtesy cars. The policy of having an old jalopy at the airport makes sense for the airport, since it makes it a bit more likely we'll stop there and blow some cash. I imagine these pilots were used to that, and views Jay's car as just another crew car. Go get some dinner, bring it back, no harm done. Jay's situation is a bit unusual, in that he keeps his own car at the airport.

What I would suggest is that Jay used his own personal property to contribute to the local economy, and should be justly proud of having done so.
 
JoeSelch said:
I'm sorry. But, even though the guy appears to be a jerk, I don't think what he's done is truly beyond the pale. I mean, he did call you to say that he'd changed his mind.
Yes - he's using your car and should not be, as he's decided not to stay at your hotel. But, as of your post, he hasn't done any great or irreparable harm.
I don't think it's a new level of jerkdom. And, if this is the worst you've seen as a hotel owner, I think you've had it easy.

Probably best that you went home and had a beer.

Of course, I'm looking forward to the rest of the story...
And, hope it works out that this is the worst of his transgressions.

Forgive me, Father, for I have used a courtesy car to which I am no longer entitled after changing my mind. I should have turned around and headed right back to the airport the minute I decided to stay elsewhere.
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Probably not a new level of Jerkdom and as far as crap that can be pulled in the hospitality industry your probably right that there could be much worse but for the rest of my response see below

RMCN172RG said:
Jay did the right think. Being a Jerk back doesn't do anything.

Simplest way to disable the car would have been "the club". BUt then your still being a Jerk.

Since you didn't have the reservation, per protocol and does not sound like thre was any real loss due to their using the car, I would've asked them to be sure and fill it when they return it after dinner.
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Using the club would not have been a jerk move IMHO but it could prompt them to do damage to the auto.

steingar said:
I think getting the credit card number before giving out car details is a damn good idea. I would also refer to it as the rental car, available for $50/day. However, that fee is waived for hotel guests.
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Good idea Michael unfortuantly Spike says that won't work in TX.

Folks I agree that Jay really took the high road here but had he decided to dump the bags and repo the car or disable it how can you say he would have been a jerk? These scumballs had his property! Do you really think that refusing to continue to let them abuse you is being a jerk?

Lets say the guys really intended to stay at Jays's place then they got in town and wanted a place closer to the beach or felt that Jay's place didn't meet their expectations ok One could disagree but still respect that. HOWEVER when Jay tells them they need to return the car and they bascially tell him to go pound sand they will return it when they are done! I'm sorry but they deserve to be ditched with their bags on the lot.

I've pulled up and checked into hotels that when i got there I very dissappointed it happens but Had I used their car I would have immedialty dropped my bag off at the new place returned the car with fuel and a few bucks for the usage. Thats the right thing to do.
 
Jay, I think you did the right thing, difficult as it was. If you get the guy's name, perhaps you might ban him from staying with you and pass it on to other hotels.

The lockbox is a good idea for the car too.
 
Revenge is a dish best served cold....

Jay, good call on the beer. Tossing the bags out and taking the car (my first thought) or going in to confront the guys in the restaurant, or even reporting it stolen, might be satisfying in the short term.

However (and I believe you have posted about this before) you wouldn't necessarily have the last laugh. How many internet posts, at how many different sites, could these guys have made saying nothing but negative stuff about you and your motel?? No, you really were in a crappy situation.

Best bet - call them, explain there was a goof-up, but this car is intended only for paying motel customers. "As a courtesy to the motel for use of the car, the cost of which we ordinarily recover in our room rates, would you kindly fill the tank before you return it? Thanks so much, we hope you try us out the next time you're in town."

Then go and have another beer.
 
timrj said:
When I read the post title I was expecting something really bad. This hardly qualifies. Your staff broke protocol. Just chalk it up as a lesson learned.

Who knows - by not making a scene or being a jerk yourself you may have set yourself up for a lot more business in the future.

Next time buy the motel on the beach.

You are in the service/hospitality business. Sometimes these things happen. Should be no surprise.
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Can you name another hotel in America that offers pilots a free car to use during their visit? A visit, by the way, that would have cost them the grand sum of $54, WITH a delivered breakfast? (Off-season pricing, with an AOPA discount.)

[sound of crickets]

No? Well, then, this ain't a "should be no surprise, just suck it up" situation.

I don't know whether what I did (essentially, nothing) was best, but it was certainly the path of least resistance. While it would have been fun to dump all of their stuff in the parking lot, (as someone pointed out) it would have opened me up to all sorts of liability.

Just what I need. My insurance man already thinks I'm insane for letting pilots take my car.

I have not been to the airport yet today to see if the car has been returned intact. For all I know, the guy is half-way to Dallas with it by now.

What bothers me most about this situation isn't the fact that the guy changed his mind about staying at our motel. That is every person's right -- right up to the point where you are driving around town in my motel's courtesy car. Once you've taken my car, you are my customer. To break that unwritten rule -- a rule that has been accepted by literally thousands of pilots over the last 9 years -- is what's so...dishonorable.

In the end, all I feel is shame for these guys. Those who have learned to slip these surly bonds are normally changed forever into something...better...than normal human beings. As a business owner, I am *used* to being stiffed by the general public -- but never pilots.

I laid awake a long time wondering about these guys last night.
 
Doesn't even approach being worth loosing sleep over. Do you normally loose sleep over fifty bucks?

Like I said, you used your property to bring business to one of your fellow merchants.
 
While dumping out the luggage or retrieving the car with it would be the 'right' thing to do, the internet would be full of posts about 'Jay the jerk motel owner' right now.

In the range of things that could have happened to your courtesy car, loss of use for a couple of hours seems to be a minor problem.

So who was it ?
 
I personally REALLY appreciate having a courtesy car available at GA airports. It makes the use of the airplane for travelling so much more convenient. I usually put gas in the car and try not to keep it for more than an hour. These guys were obviously jerks. But Jay did the right thing by not stooping to their level of Jerkdom. My Dad said once (after he had been not treated right by another person) that if you put your mind to it and don't have scruples, you can cheat a lot of people out of a lot of things. I try to forgive people, but I hope that some time these guys get paid back by one of their peers.
 
In the end I think you did the right thing.

Option C is best in my book as well. While I tend to meet things head on too many times, calmer heads sometimes prevail as yours did.

It's all about Karma, and one day he'll get his!
 
Jay - it was a good call. Much as one wants to get revenge.:incazzato:

So let me ask this question: why not plaster signage on the car identifying with your hotel. Make it big and bold - maybe like the bus wraps or the kind of distinctive signage that certain electronic install & service companies use.

At worst, you'd get free advertising. At best, you'd embarrass the perp as he parked it in the lot of the competing hotel.

Just a thought.....
 
Jay Honeck said:
Can you name another hotel in America that offers pilots a free car to use during their visit? A visit, by the way, that would have cost them the grand sum of $54, WITH a delivered breakfast? (Off-season pricing, with an AOPA discount.)

[sound of crickets]

No? Well, then, this ain't a "should be no surprise, just suck it up" situation.

I don't know whether what I did (essentially, nothing) was best, but it was certainly the path of least resistance. While it would have been fun to dump all of their stuff in the parking lot, (as someone pointed out) it would have opened me up to all sorts of liability.

Just what I need. My insurance man already thinks I'm insane for letting pilots take my car.

I have not been to the airport yet today to see if the car has been returned intact. For all I know, the guy is half-way to Dallas with it by now.

What bothers me most about this situation isn't the fact that the guy changed his mind about staying at our motel. That is every person's right -- right up to the point where you are driving around town in my motel's courtesy car. Once you've taken my car, you are my customer. To break that unwritten rule -- a rule that has been accepted by literally thousands of pilots over the last 9 years -- is what's so...dishonorable.

In the end, all I feel is shame for these guys. Those who have learned to slip these surly bonds are normally changed forever into something...better...than normal human beings. As a business owner, I am *used* to being stiffed by the general public -- but never pilots.

I laid awake a long time wondering about these guys last night.
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Whether or not any other motel or hotel offers a loaner car is not the issue. That has nothing to do with it. I have stayed in plenty of B&Bs that went above and beyond.

You volunteered to offer your car. Your staff made a mistake. Yet characterize this as a "new level of jerkdom". I was just calling BS on the "new level of jerkdom". You've been either really lucky so far or you just have had a bad day and this was the last straw.

If you "laid awake" for so long why didn't you just wait for them to come out or go into the restaurant and then tell them you need the car for other guests, or family, or whatever. There are more choices thatn A, B and C. You didn't have to make a scene in the restaurant, you could have handled it gracefully in some other manner, and C was the best choice of the ones you threw out, but I really thought I was in for a treat reading the post title.

Would I have done what they did? No. Do I think they handled it poorly? Yes. But "new level"? No. And certainly your side is not free of culpability.

Perhaps you should have a policy of getting driver license information and work out an arrangement with the FBO staff that will take down the N number. This way you can send a bill or file small claims if you really feel like going after these folks.

I think it is a great gimmick. I'd just chalk it up as the price of offering that business. You happened to attract someone who either planned on taking you for a ride or just didn't do the right thing in your opinion.

Bottom line - your staff made the mistake of letting them use the car without an agreement or security. Period.
 
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timrj said:
Perhaps you should have a policy of getting driver license information and work out an arrangement with the FBO staff that will take down the N number. This way you can send a bill or file small claims if you really feel like going after these folks.
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No FBO at that particular airport.

timrj said:
Bottom line - your staff made the mistake of letting them use the car without an agreement or security. Period.
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Your assessment of "Bottom line" totally ignores the responsibility of someone to return a borrowed item when the return is requested by the items owner.

I certainly understand that an airport or business "loaner" is there for the benefit of the airport or business by providing a convenience for the business's customers. They aren't "loaners" to the general public like the jerks in this story would like to pretend. Obviously a couple people don't understand that simple fact.
 
Clark1961 said:
No FBO at that particular airport.



Your assessment of "Bottom line" totally ignores the responsibility of someone to return a borrowed item when the return is requested by the items owner.

I certainly understand that an airport or business "loaner" is there for the benefit of the airport or business by providing a convenience for the business's customers. They aren't "loaners" to the general public like the jerks in this story would like to pretend. Obviously a couple people don't understand that simple fact.
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And the person said they would return it. Jay could have offered a solution to the problem. There are more choices than A, B or C.

I am not defending the actions of people who took advantage of Jay, I am saying that this was not what I would call "new level of jerkness"

These kinds of things happen all the time and that is how policies get refined.

We don't know the other side of the story.

This could have been avoided if

- Jay had a place on the water

- They didn't loan the car until they had the CC or whatever (though even in that case would they have had an issue if the people chose a nice location and pulled the same deal - they just deny the charges? Since Jay is not a rental agency he can't rent the car so I am not sure what the outcome of that dispute would be

It's unfortunate that goodwill like Jay's is becoming so rare - partly due to these issues and mostly due to liability concerns.

I am not saying the borrowers are right - I am just saying that this is not even close to something that would have me ranting. I'd consider it another annoyance, but not "new level of jerkdom"

What would all your opinions be if tomorrow some pilot posted here or some othe rblog or some such p[lace about what a great vacation he had and he is looking forward to going back, but this time he is going to stay at the place of the friendliest hotel and plane owner he never met - and raves about the place with the loaner car and tells people they gotta go there?


If I flew down to someplace like that I might want to change my mind and stay at a place right on the water - not 6 blocks. Life is short. Unless we hear form the other side I am not going to jump all over them. (But I do have an opinion and probably would steer clear)
 
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EdFred said:
I would post his name on here.
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wsuffa said:
Jay - it was a good call. Much as one wants to get revenge.:incazzato:

So let me ask this question: why not plaster signage on the car identifying with your hotel. Make it big and bold - maybe like the bus wraps or the kind of distinctive signage that certain electronic install & service companies use.

At worst, you'd get free advertising. At best, you'd embarrass the perp as he parked it in the lot of the competing hotel.

Just a thought.....
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+1 to both of these suggestions.
Point 'em out. If they see this thread, they might offer an explanation. (NOT)
 
Jay Honeck said:
Can you name another hotel in America that offers pilots a free car to use during their visit?
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I think you just made the case for this being a simple misunderstanding. He might have assumed the car was a standard FBO courtesy car. According to you, the following transpired:

Jay Honeck said:
My desk gal, Victoria, explained the way our courtesy car worked (it's parked at the airport, keys under the mat), and that we give you the make, model and license plate of the vehicle once you make a reservation. After that, the car is yours to use during your stay, within reason.
[...]
30 minutes later, the guy called. They "drove past the place, and decided they wanted to stay on the water instead". (We are 6 blocks from the water, in any of three directions.)

The guy then stated that they were "at dinner" -- WITH OUR CAR.

Mary laughed (instead of screaming, I suspect), and told the guy that, no, he could NOT use our courtesy car if he wasn't a guest at our motel. The guy actually then had the balls to say "Well, we've just ordered our food -- we'll return it when we're done."
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As you note, hotels don't normally have courtesy cars at airports, so despite what Victoria may have told him, he may have mentally discarded any statement to the contrary that didn't meet ingrained expectations. He may have accidentally got the impression during the initial discussion with Victoria that the existence of the courtesy car somehow "made" you the airport FBO or that your hotel was somehow associated with any FBO. Only after deciding he wanted to stay closer to the ocean would the mistake become apparent to him.

Whether any of the above is what happened, it may have been wiser to delay posting until the person had a chance to return the car. He might yet apologize and provide some explanation and even pay some rental for it.

Why post when the "story" has yet to run its course?

And unlike others, I would not recommend you name names. We've only heard your side of things.
 
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timrj said:
I am not saying the borrowers are right - I am just saying that this is not even close to something that would have me ranting.
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Then why are you ranting? (that was rhetorical, a response is neither required or expected)
 
Ok Jay..... The suspense is so thick you can cut it with a knife..

Did they return the car ?
Is it damaged?
Did they have second thoughts and stay with you anyway ? B)

We need details ..:goofy:

Ben.
 
Capt.Crash'n'Burn said:
The answer was to take the car WITH the guy's luggage and use it for ransom to get adequete compensation from him for use of the car. :devil:
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And then the jerk puts a blog post on the internet and business is hurt for years... No, sorry, the high road is better for business in the long run.

-Skip
 
I'm sorry that had to happen to you, Jay... people can be unbelievable sometimes. I would have gone to that restaurant, taken your car back, luggage and all, and then worn the (clean) clothes he had in his suitcases. Maybe see if he had anything else cool in there for you to try. iPad?? Computer?? Take some photos with his camera! When he calls asking about his clothes/belongings, tell him you'll give them back when you are done! Don't do the laundry. :D
 
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bigred177 said:
How big is the HAM transmitter? Would it fit on a motorcycle? Reckon you could point me to a link about these things? This is very interesting.
Thank you sir.
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Bigred..

the link with my track on it is from my Harley Ultra Classic. I have a more expensive setup, with a dual band radio (think of it as a COM-COM in aviation speak, instead of a Nav Com).. with one side set to voice and the other side set to data. I use HAM solely for volunteer charity events as a medical and motorcycle escort volunteer. I am not what Ham Radio guys call a "rag chewer" who gets on the radio a couple times a week for a party line conversation.

You need a technician level Ham License. (No morse code required). It costs $14 and lasts 10 years. You need a VHF band HAM radio (also known as 2 meter wavelength), a gps and a device called a TNC (essentially the brain that takes your gps coords, and tells the radio when to beacon your position).

www.byonics.com has some combination trackers as well as kits for building.

www.arrl.org is the trade group.. kinda like aopa/eaa wrapped into one, but with self regulatory power - they sponsor the ham version of Designated Examiners, called VE's. (volunteer examiners) who proctor written tests.

Generally googling APRS will give you a wealth of pretty technical stuff, but if you are smart enough to understand IFR navigation you can figure it out slowly.
 
wsuffa said:
Jay - it was a good call. Much as one wants to get revenge.:incazzato:

So let me ask this question: why not plaster signage on the car identifying with your hotel. Make it big and bold - maybe like the bus wraps or the kind of distinctive signage that certain electronic install & service companies use.

At worst, you'd get free advertising. At best, you'd embarrass the perp as he parked it in the lot of the competing hotel.

Just a thought.....
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Our courtesy van at the Alexis Park Inn in Iowa City is wrapped precisely as you describe. It's GREAT advertising.

I didn't do that here, yet, because we intend to change the name of the motel once we're done converting it to the aviation theme.

That plan may change.
 
Doggtyred said:
There was one airport I used to frequent that had fuel on an unlocked pump and on the honor system for years. It was one of those local-knowledge things...
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I know of a couple of those near here...
 
Perhaps you should have a policy of getting driver license information and work out an arrangement with the FBO staff that will take down the N number. This way you can send a bill or file small claims if you really feel like going after these folks.
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The island airport is unstaffed. There is no real FBO -- just a nice terminal building, and self-serve gas pumps.

I think it is a great gimmick. I'd just chalk it up as the price of offering that business. You happened to attract someone who either planned on taking you for a ride or just didn't do the right thing in your opinion.
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"Gimmick"? Offering a car for my guests to use, gratis, is now a "gimmick"?

I'll be kind, and attribute this to a poor choice of words, and the fact that you have no knowledge of the history of our aviation themed motel(s), and the collaborative effort (of many people on this group) that it took to get them started.

Bottom line - your staff made the mistake of letting them use the car without an agreement or security. Period.
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Yep, my wife was too damned nice. Trust me, it will not happen again.

How sad.
 
Ok Jay..... The suspense is so thick you can cut it with a knife..

Did they return the car ?
Is it damaged?
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Sadly, I was so busy today (painting, finish carpentry, plumbing, asphalt repairs) that I never got to the airport to check. Now, I've got quarterly taxes to pay, and one more to check in...so it ain't gonna happen tonight.

I'm going to trust that they returned it, as promised.

Did they have second thoughts and stay with you anyway ? B)
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Nope.

I thought about calling around and warning the area motels about these guys (most motel owners on the island will call and warn us if they had to throw out a "drunk & disorderly" -- we all consider it our own little "Terrorist Alert", just like Homeland Security issues...). There are only a couple of motels right on the water (Why? Because A. They don't allow things to be built "on the water" anymore, for environmental reasons, and B. Being that close to salt water is a maintenance nightmare; not surprisingly, few motels are located that close to the gulf; 6 blocks is about perfect), so it would have been fairly easy to guess where they were heading...but life's too short.

As for you folks who want me to post their names, are you serious? In today's world, that would open me up to more liability than even I'm prepared to shoulder.
 
kyleb said:
I have it on good authority from a guy who knows a someone who used to have a friend whose spouse worked at the FBO that it was Bertie the Bunyip.
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Ha! Good one, Kyle.

Happily, most people here have no idea whom you are talking about! :thumbsup:
 
The problem is , Jay, you are old fashioned.

There is no honor in aviation anymore. Backstabing, lying, and arrogance is the norm today.
 
Jay Honeck said:
"Gimmick"? Offering a car for my guests to use, gratis, is now a "gimmick"?



Yep, my wife was too damned nice. Trust me, it will not happen again.

How sad.
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I can see that you are really POed at this whole situation. What is making you so angry? Is it just that the guy took advantage of your faith in humanity? So in the end, other than that what is your loss? Did they bring the car back? Did they put gas in it? Was someone else not able to use the car because this other guy was using it? How many miles did he put on it? Enough to think that he took it joy riding, or did he just go get something to eat and happen to see a motel that suited him better? I mean, I would be a little miffed if I was in your shoes, but I would be over it by now.
 
kgruber said:
The problem is , Jay, you are old fashioned.

There is no honor in aviation anymore. Backstabing, lying, and arrogance is the norm today.
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You may be right. A good friend of mine sent me this today, and it rings true:

"You, no doubt remember, when we rented airplanes and all we had to do was call in advance and the FBO would put out the red carpet for us, pull the plane from the hanger, have it waiting on the ramp, full of fuel, with the door open ready for us to mount up and take off... hell, my airport used to do it for private owners as well, just for paying hanger rent and buying fuel.... same when landing at any little po-dunk airport anywhere in the country... we were treated like royalty..... Those days are long gone."

"From time to time, I run into new/young pilots that never knew those days, nor the level of service that we were once afforded simply for spending our money with the providing business. Times have changed.... I run into more new/young pilots that are *******s than are instead, truly interested in aviation... they are mostly interested in themselves."

Sad to think that aviation could be dragged down to the same level as the rest of humanity, but I suppose it's true... :cryin:
 
kgruber said:
The problem is , Jay, you are old fashioned.

There is no honor in aviation anymore. Backstabing, lying, and arrogance is the norm today.
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I've been involved with aviation since 1970. Ive been screwed over a couple of times by pilots and airplane owners. Usually the same. If you are going to be a trusting person, you need to be able to deal with it when someone takes advantage of that. For me, I trust people. Sometimes it comes back to bite me. If it does, I just move on. I just can't go through life afraid that if I do something, someone will get the best of me. It just makes you petty. Frankly, I think at this point Jay needs to just laugh it off and move on. Why loose sleep over something like this? Why get so upset that his wife feels bad that she let them have it? It is just a car. What is the big deal? Evidently it isn't a big enough deal to even go out to the airport to see if they brought the car back. So what is with all the anger?
 
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