I wouldn't call the magenta line the "line of death." Even when I'm flying the airways I have my 430 on VLOC linked to the HSI to fly it. I don't avoid the GPS because old school guys don't like it. Even in my short amount of IFR training I've had my 430 fail in VLOC and I had to do real one-radio holds at an intersection. It's not the end of the world to use a backup as a backup and not as a primary. I'm betting there was a time when pilots talked about the VOR being unreliable and to use the "old methods."
A goal of becoming a pilot
- Thread starter rs013
- Start date
I wouldn't call the magenta line the "line of death." Even when I'm flying the airways I have my 430 on VLOC linked to the HSI to fly it. I don't avoid the GPS because old school guys don't like it. Even in my short amount of IFR training I've had my 430 fail in VLOC and I had to do real one-radio holds at an intersection. It's not the end of the world to use a backup as a backup and not as a primary. I'm betting there was a time when pilots talked about the VOR being unreliable and to use the "old methods."
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
The VOR has limitations, too.
The point seems to be not to just blindly do what your gadget tells you to, but to think about it. You don't just hit the direct-to button and go where it tells you. There might be something unpleasant in the way (like a high mountain -- or worse, an uncharted obstruction that doesn't show up in the fancy terrain screen). That would apply to a VOR as well, though high mountains in between tend to block the signal.
You have a lot of options under VFR that the GPS won't do without lot of user waypoints.
Never trust your life to a gadget without understanding its limitations. Whether that's a VOR receiver, GPS or a fuel gauge. Practice defensive flying. Gadgets really don't care if they kill you or not, and the designers are trying to solve impossible problems to make them bug-free.
The point seems to be not to just blindly do what your gadget tells you to, but to think about it. You don't just hit the direct-to button and go where it tells you. There might be something unpleasant in the way (like a high mountain -- or worse, an uncharted obstruction that doesn't show up in the fancy terrain screen). That would apply to a VOR as well, though high mountains in between tend to block the signal.
You have a lot of options under VFR that the GPS won't do without lot of user waypoints.
Never trust your life to a gadget without understanding its limitations. Whether that's a VOR receiver, GPS or a fuel gauge. Practice defensive flying. Gadgets really don't care if they kill you or not, and the designers are trying to solve impossible problems to make them bug-free.
Last edited:
Wow...you guys need to visit Minnesota...or just about anywhere else NOT on the Left or Right coasts!
One man's "cramped" is another woman's "cozy"! The 150-152 is a fun flying machine.
cirrusmx
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2011
- Messages
- 794
- Location
- Boston, Massachussetts
- Display Name
Display name:
campoalavista
Think about what you are going to do after you finish your training. Once you are done and dont have a reason to fly you will probably stop.
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
I don't see any evidence that this is a factor here.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
I never fly solo, I always have two people, I've even flown the 150 with a guy over 200 pounds.
The useful load is 435 so I would have to weight 235 to be over max gross (and I don't).
I always choose the 150 when I can - it is my favorite. Even more so than the 152.
Kimberly
PS- Cramped is OK since my flights are short.
Yes, you need to get over codes and radio work, it's all simple, just get your code before you fire up when departing. Usually FBOs will have a station radio you can use for Clearance Delivery calls.
As for a BFR get a Glider add on, it'll save you a ton of money in the long run.
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
Petaluma is far enough away that you can just call Oakland Center after leaving the pattern and ask for flight following. They won't say yes or no to a Class B clearance, though. That will have to wait for NorCal.
At any of the towered airports, just ask CD (if it exists, e.g., Oakland), or Ground for a Bay Tour, or flight following with a Class B transition.
At any of the towered airports, just ask CD (if it exists, e.g., Oakland), or Ground for a Bay Tour, or flight following with a Class B transition.
CaptLabrador
Pre-takeoff checklist
Yeah but a norcal tracon operator told me that unless your out of san carlos or palo alto they wont give you the really low bay tour at 1000 or 1500, which when flying over the golden gate at that altitude is amazing. But at those airports just ask ground for a bay tour and you thats all.
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
1000 is a bit low for the Golden Gate Bridge. The towers are charted 757 feet high. You're supposed to be 1000 above the highest obstruction within 2000 feet over congested areas per 14 CFR 91.119(b). Even if you assert the channel is not "congested" (which seems more than a little hard to argue), you still have to be 500 feet from any structure per 14 CFR 91.119(c). And you're supposed to be 2000 feet AGL over any national park (yes, the Golden Gate Bridge has national parks on both ends, plus a national recreation area, plus a third park over Alcatraz).
The Golden Gate Bridge is not in Class B unless you're above 3000 feet. Even if you do the "high" transition, NorCal is likely to want you to descend out of Class B as soon as you're past the surface area.
No problem! Split the towers, they're 4200' apart, and the bottom of the catenary is about 250'.
CaptLabrador
Pre-takeoff checklist
I think iHenning has the right idea. Technically you are more than 500 ft from any structure. Either way that is the altitude ive seen doing bay tours given from atc. on busy days such as weekends they stack you at 500 ft increments from 1000 up to the 3000 ft ceiling. I was at 1500 and there is a yellow seaplane that flies out of just north of the GG at 1000 and then there was a couple cessna's stacked above me, so despite how the regs are interpreted ...its happened.
I've gone out the GG any way you can go, the coolest looking one though was when the tops of the towers were in the clouds and I went between the deck and clouds in the catenary. I also have gone out underneath the deck to shoot some surfers out at Mavericks when the ceilings were low and surf was high.
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
Umm, Mavericks is in Half Moon Bay, not under the Golden Gate Bridge.
The Golden Gate isn't very good surfing. Lots of current, but not a whole lot of waves. And a LOT of sea traffic.
If the tops of the towers were in clouds and you went through the catenary, there is no way you could have been within VFR minimums. That's also an unusually high ceiling; it's much more common that the TOPS are below the towers.
I guess that Class B used to be more crowded "back in the day." I've shared the airspace with exactly one other VFR aircraft, even on perfect weekend summer days. I've never been assigned an altitude, just told to stay west of Hwy 101. I've gotten a couple of traffic calls near the Bridge, but that's not in Class B.
The Golden Gate isn't very good surfing. Lots of current, but not a whole lot of waves. And a LOT of sea traffic.
If the tops of the towers were in clouds and you went through the catenary, there is no way you could have been within VFR minimums. That's also an unusually high ceiling; it's much more common that the TOPS are below the towers.
I guess that Class B used to be more crowded "back in the day." I've shared the airspace with exactly one other VFR aircraft, even on perfect weekend summer days. I've never been assigned an altitude, just told to stay west of Hwy 101. I've gotten a couple of traffic calls near the Bridge, but that's not in Class B.
ainokea
Pre-takeoff checklist
Fort Point can be pretty good with the right direction swell. Some of the pros went there when the Rip Curl Pro Search was in SF. Lotta videos on YouTube too.
http://www.surfline.com/surf-news/rip-curl-pro-search-san-francisco-day-four_62247/
Last edited: