A frustrated PPL student

[White Bird]

I logged around 13 hrs so far and I feel that my performance is not consistent. Sometimes I am very good and sometimes I am not. My instructor is a new one and I believe I am one of his first and I don’t think that any student graduated yet from under him. I always feel with him in a rush to do stuff quickly although he keeps saying "don't worry we are good with time" but I think he is really worried about his image in front of the chief instructor or other instructors or even the tower. He is a nice young guy but when it comes to matters related to his image he would take an abrupt and aggressive action; for example if I am climbing out for 2300 (SFRA) and if I exceeded the altitude by 100 before I could level off (with all the communication work i have) he would push the yoke forward scaring the crap out of me. On another note, through all the landings we did none of them were good (they were always too high) and he takes over and lands it at the end of it although I follow everything he says. and he always says good job you almost landed it. I can feel that he is a bit disappointed that he can't solo me yet and score in front of the chief.

The lessons are never enough to do what is required. Today I was telling myself may be flying is not for me. Is this normal with all students? or should I just go ahead and try another instructor? Although I would hate to hurt his feeling. I am 34 by the way so that might also be a factor.

 

[Legiox]

Unless you're about to crash the plane or do something stupid, i believe the instructor shouldn't take over the controls like you're describing. When i was in training, i would come down to high on my landings a couple of times. I corrected it or landed way to far down the runway, but i landed the plane. My instructor would just explain to me the proper way of doing it and what i need to correct, then we try it again. Without your hand on the yoke you're not learning.

 

[Old Geek]

Time for a new instructor. Been there, done that.

 

[Jim Logajan]

Although I would hate to hurt his feeling.

I take it from that sentence that you probably haven't talked to your instructor about these issues? If not, it seems to me to be a bit premature to ask here. Take the specific issues you wrote in your post and do your best to clinically and dispassionately discuss them with him.

 

[jdennis1989]

I would say get a new instructor. I'm at 6.5 hours and my CFI has only grabbed the yoke twice. Once the first time we encountered a buzzered flying too close during takeoff(and there's a lot of them here in Texas), and once on a cross wind landing that I screwed up bad. Other than that I don't think he will grab the controls unless we crash.

Best advice on the landings, just keep calm and fly the plane. My Dad gave me that advice when starting, no matter what even if your going to crash.... fly that plane.

 

[Archammer]

Remember, this is YOUR money. This isn't grade school where you're stuck with whatever teacher you get. If you're unhappy with your trainer, then get another one. Your money spends just the same, and you need to be happy about what you're doing right?

There are great stresses in learning how to fly an aircraft, but those stresses should never be discouraging, only reinforcing.

Just like Old Geek said, been there done that. Ya, we have. My first instructor and I didn't click at ALL! So, I got another one, and it hurt the first one's feelings for about 5 minutes. My first instructor is a great person, but not the person that would teach me to fly.

You'll find the right one, and you'll love every damn minute after that!

 

[White Bird]

I take it from that sentence that you probably haven't talked to your instructor about these issues? If not, it seems to me to be a bit premature to ask here. Take the specific issues you wrote in your post and do your best to clinically and dispassionately discuss them with him.

I will try to explain it to him next time I see him

 

[White Bird]

I would say get a new instructor. I'm at 6.5 hours and my CFI has only grabbed the yoke twice. Once the first time we encountered a buzzered flying too close during takeoff(and there's a lot of them here in Texas), and once on a cross wind landing that I screwed up bad. Other than that I don't think he will grab the controls unless we crash.

Best advice on the landings, just keep calm and fly the plane. My Dad gave me that advice when starting, no matter what even if your going to crash.... fly that plane.

Yeah apparently some CFIs trust their students more than others. The funny thing is I am very calm when it comes to the landing part.

 

[White Bird]

Remember, this is YOUR money. This isn't grade school where you're stuck with whatever teacher you get. If you're unhappy with your trainer, then get another one. Your money spends just the same, and you need to be happy about what you're doing right?

There are great stresses in learning how to fly an aircraft, but those stresses should never be discouraging, only reinforcing.

Just like Old Geek said, been there done that. Ya, we have. My first instructor and I didn't click at ALL! So, I got another one, and it hurt the first one's feelings for about 5 minutes. My first instructor is a great person, but not the person that would teach me to fly.

You'll find the right one, and you'll love every damn minute after that!

Thanks for the thorough reply. I guess it is time for a new instructor

 

[rbridges]

two things:

1) it's your time and money, get a new CFI if you would like to "feel out" someone different.

2) there are many threads posted by people who feel their progress is slow early on in the training.

 

[Henning]

Wait, you have 13 hours and haven't got a landing on your own yet? You need to talk with the chief instructor and get reassigned.

 

[Henning]

Thanks for the thorough reply. I guess it is time for a new instructor

Not only that, it's time for your instructor to get a new instructor.

 

[Skip Miller]

You are in the SFRA and you are busting altitude? I would surely expect your instructor to intervene, verbally or grab the controls.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Learning to fly in the SFRA is more difficult at first, because there are a lot of significant and costly errors to be made in there. If this were easy everyone could do it. Most can, some can't. Same goes for instructing.

If I were you I would have a conversation with the chief pilot at the FBO as well as with your instructor.

-Skip

 

[White Bird]

Wait, you have 13 hours and haven't got a landing on your own yet? You need to talk with the chief instructor and get reassigned.

I will talk with the chief and see what he says

 

[White Bird]

two things:

1) it's your time and money, get a new CFI if you would like to "feel out" someone different.

2) there are many threads posted by people who feel their progress is slow early on in the training.

I will look up the threads and hopefully I will find some stuff to realte to

 

[poadeleted20]

Unless you're about to crash the plane or do something stupid, i believe the instructor shouldn't take over the controls like you're describing.

Busting altitudes in the SFRA/B-space can have serious consequences for the PIC, i.e., the instructor. Not trying to justify this instructor's specific actions, but just sayin'...

 

[rbridges]

I will look up the threads and hopefully I will find some stuff to realte to

sorry, I wasn't telling you to look up the threads. I just wanted to make you aware that you're not the first or last person to feel frustrated. It happens to everybody.

 

[White Bird]

You are in the SFRA and you are busting altitude? I would surely expect your instructor to intervene, verbally or grab the controls.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Learning to fly in the SFRA is more difficult at first, because there are a lot of significant and costly errors to be made in there. If this were easy everyone could do it. Most can, some can't. Same goes for instructing.

If I were you I would have a conversation with the chief pilot at the FBO as well as with your instructor.

-Skip

You are right regarding SFRA and I am sure eventually it is rewarding to have learnt there

 

[MAKG1]

Maybe training so near/in an SFRA may not be the best idea.

Almost everyone gets stuck at one point or another, but I'd be annoyed if my instructor was taking over every landing as well, unless I was about to crash into something. Only you can know if that really was an issue.

It's time for a heart to heart. Communication with your instructor is key, and I'm hearing some things in your posts that suggests that when you find a new one, you'll have communication problems there as well. If you can't communicate well with your instructor, that's a reason to switch. If you can't communicate well with any instructor, you need to figure out how to change that.

Treat this as professional training, which it is at least to some extent. It's not school. Part of professionalism is having a give and take. Your instructor should be expected to take reasonable criticism without drama. If he can't, he's in the wrong line of work.

 

[White Bird]

Busting altitudes in the SFRA/B-space can have serious consequences for the PIC, i.e., the instructor. Not trying to justify this instructor's specific actions, but just sayin'...

I totally agree with you and I understand how important maintainig right altitudes in SFRA..

 

[White Bird]

sorry, I wasn't telling you to look up the threads. I just wanted to make you aware that you're not the first or last person to feel frustrated. It happens to everybody.

No problem at all , Thanks for the reply

 

[ClimbnSink]

I can understand being paranoid about the altitude in the sfra, but the landing stuff has got to change. At least go try a new instructor or two.

 

[White Bird]

Maybe training so near/in an SFRA may not be the best idea.

Almost everyone gets stuck at one point or another, but I'd be annoyed if my instructor was taking over every landing as well, unless I was about to crash into something. Only you can know if that really was an issue.

It's time for a heart to heart. Communication with your instructor is key, and I'm hearing some things in your posts that suggests that when you find a new one, you'll have communication problems there as well. If you can't communicate well with your instructor, that's a reason to switch. If you can't communicate well with any instructor, you need to figure out how to change that.

Treat this as professional training, which it is at least to some extent. It's not school. Part of professionalism is having a give and take. Your instructor should be expected to take reasonable criticism without drama. If he can't, he's in the wrong line of work.

I will definetly explain it to him next time I see him and see what happens and I am going to ask the cheif to fly with me one time and see what he thinks

 

[texasag93]

My second CFI was a yeller.

After a few hours, I would flinch every time he spoke.

It took me a few more hours to realize that I needed to get another CFI. At $175 an hour (all in), it took too much time.

You are the customer. You are the one who makes the decision on who to fly with.

 

[GauzeGuy]

I logged around 13 hrs so far and I feel that my performance is not consistent. Sometimes I am very good and sometimes I am not. My instructor is a new one and I believe I am one of his first and I don’t think that any student graduated yet from under him.

1. Being inconsistent at 13 hours is normal. That's all part of the learning process. I took more hours to solo than some people take to get their PPL. My pilot's certificate looks the same as theirs.

2. Having a new instructor in itself isn't a bad thing. When they're taking over too often without giving you the opportunity to learn, then that's a problem.

3. Getting a "second opinion" is never bad. You're not saying anything bad about your CFI by doing that, remember sometimes how you connect with your CFI might be off and another approach is in order.

4. Hang in there. You'll have some off days even when (notice I said when, not if) you pass your check ride. That's normal as well. The worst thing you can do at this point is quit.

 

[White Bird]

After a few hours, I would flinch every time he spoke.

.

LOL

 

[douglas393]

Flying is as much an art as it is a science. DaVinci did not paint the Mona Lisa on his first canvas. Hang in there, it will eventually come together. As for changing instructors, if you do not have rapport with him, or feel you are not learning from change now before you spend too much. Talking to him may help both you and him, especially if he is a new instructor and him may not realize his instructing style is not working.

 

[JohnWF]

I appreciate your frustration. Years ago when I was taking flying lessons (I 'went through' three different instructonrs - they kept moving around) one instructor didn't want me to handle the controls. He just want to show me what to do, never let me fly the machine. I was just about to quit when fortunately he also moved on. Where do these people come from?

 

[White Bird]

1. Being inconsistent at 13 hours is normal. That's all part of the learning process. I took more hours to solo than some people take to get their PPL. My pilot's certificate looks the same as theirs.

2. Having a new instructor in itself isn't a bad thing. When they're taking over too often without giving you the opportunity to learn, then that's a problem.

3. Getting a "second opinion" is never bad. You're not saying anything bad about your CFI by doing that, remember sometimes how you connect with your CFI might be off and another approach is in order.

4. Hang in there. You'll have some off days even when (notice I said when, not if) you pass your check ride. That's normal as well. The worst thing you can do at this point is quit.

I really appreciate the encouragement, I guess when we are learning to fly we need a lot of it.

 

[White Bird]

Flying is as much an art as it is a science. DaVinci did not paint the Mona Lisa on his first canvas. Hang in there, it will eventually come together. As for changing instructors, if you do not have rapport with him, or feel you are not learning from change now before you spend too much. Talking to him may help both you and him, especially if he is a new instructor and him may not realize his instructing style is not working.

I really can't wait for that aha moment whether with this instructor or another.

 

[White Bird]

I appreciate your frustration. Years ago when I was taking flying lessons (I 'went through' three different instructonrs - they kept moving around) one instructor didn't want me to handle the controls. He just want to show me what to do, never let me fly the machine. I was just about to quit when fortunately he also moved on. Where do these people come from?

That is exactly what is happening!! and that increases when we get closer to the ground. I think being able to fly an airplane has nothing to do of bing able of teaching it.

 

[thezoolityre]

Can't say anything these people all have, if it is a consistent problem that is inhibiting your learning experience... GET OUT NOW! At least you are lucky enough to know you could be in trouble...

I had a CFI through my Private and Instrument who was good, but didn't give a rat's ass about his job, so he taught me like crap, and therefore developed crappy flying habits and limited motivation and knowledge towards aviation as a whole, but the worst part was, I was so cut off (which was my fault) to the aviation community at my airport that I didn't even realize this was happening until I got to my commercial where I started meeting other pilots who were still on their instrument and knew more about VFR flying then I did, and I spent, literally 8 hours studying every night to make up the knowledge I got back, and spent more time during my commercial in the practice area relearning the maneuvers per the AFH, and less time taking fun cross country flights with friends...

Moral of the story, I wasted money!! A lot of it for what I got from it, so act now, if you talk to him he might let off, but because he is new he could have, what we call, "my controls" mentality... either figure it out or leave... before your wallet and your safety suffers.

 

[Henning]

I really can't wait for that aha moment whether with this instructor or another.

Interesting experiment for you to try. Do a solid 2 hrs of nothing but take offs and landings with an instructor that lets you actually fly and bounce and mess up, get past the point where you are so worn out your landings are getting worse and keep on going until you are mentally and physically exhausted. Now go home and go to bed and get a good sleep. Go back the next day and try again. I've been doing some sleep study research with a buddy going for his doctorate, seems there is a significant basis behind the term "Sleep on it". Some interesting things are happening in the brain during non REM sleep. Also, I don't know if it's been brought up yet, How often are you flying? 3 or more times a week seems to be where people make the best progress.

 

[White Bird]

Can't say anything these people all have, if it is a consistent problem that is inhibiting your learning experience... GET OUT NOW! At least you are lucky enough to know you could be in trouble...

I had a CFI through my Private and Instrument who was good, but didn't give a rat's ass about his job, so he taught me like crap, and therefore developed crappy flying habits and limited motivation and knowledge towards aviation as a whole, but the worst part was, I was so cut off (which was my fault) to the aviation community at my airport that I didn't even realize this was happening until I got to my commercial where I started meeting other pilots who were still on their instrument and knew more about VFR flying then I did, and I spent, literally 8 hours studying every night to make up the knowledge I got back, and spent more time during my commercial in the practice area relearning the maneuvers per the AFH, and less time taking fun cross country flights with friends...

Moral of the story, I wasted money!! A lot of it for what I got from it, so act now, if you talk to him he might let off, but because he is new he could have, what we call, "my controls" mentality... either figure it out or leave... before your wallet and your safety suffers.

Thanks for the advice I will try someone else and see whats going on and will nip it in the bud

 

[Tony_Fletcher]

Maybe training so near/in an SFRA may not be the best idea.

I did my training in the DC SFRA, from an airport in the FRZ. Best decision. If you can operate safely in the SFRA, you'll have no fear of any air space in the country. Great way to improve your radio skills too, as every flight is basically an IFR mission.

Maybe grab a beer with your instructor and tell him your issues? Be frank, and hopefully he will do the same.

 

[John Baker]

It is always frustrating learning something new and complex, such as flying or computer programs like Auto Cad, or woman, and so on.

Those who succeed in such endeavors usually all of them become frustrated at some point or another. The difference between them and those who fail is that they never quit until they accomplish their mission.

Try this on landing; Let your plane continue coming down until the tip of the cowling, just behind the propeller, is just below the end of the runway, visually it would look like around an inch.

All you have to do now is hold that picture or point by slowly pulling back on your yoke. If you do not let it vary, the picture holds at that same inch point on your cowling, your flair will be perfect, and your touchdown as close to, if not, a greaser.

Always put your seat in the same position, do not slouch in the seat. If you can not see the picture I described, adjust your seat or buy a pilots seat cushion. Always sit the same in your seat during every flight. This is especially true on landings and steep turns.

Like all things, it might take a few tries, but not much more than that. Tell your instructor that is how mono vision pilots land, by what the picture looks like, not judging their hight above the runway. You will soon find ourself doing both, but get the picture right first.

Never, ever join the loser club, never quit. Perseverance always pays off in the end, no matter what your doing.

I was 61 when I first started flying, I only had one eye, I was 67 when I passed my check ride.

-John

 

[White Bird]

Interesting experiment for you to try. Do a solid 2 hrs of nothing but take offs and landings with an instructor that lets you actually fly and bounce and mess up, get past the point where you are so worn out your landings are getting worse and keep on going until you are mentally and physically exhausted. Now go home and go to bed and get a good sleep. Go back the next day and try again. I've been doing some sleep study research with a buddy going for his doctorate, seems there is a significant basis behind the term "Sleep on it". Some interesting things are happening in the brain during non REM sleep. Also, I don't know if it's been brought up yet, How often are you flying? 3 or more times a week seems to be where people make the best progress.

May be the brain tends to reorganize itself in a way that wont let you exahst it again (defense mechanism) but I will try it. I fly twice a week and this month with the weather and all have been doing once a week if I am lucky

 

[Henning]

May be the brain tends to reorganize itself in a way that wont let you exahst it again (defense mechanism) but I will try it. I fly twice a week and this month with the weather and all have been doing once a week if I am lucky

Non REM dreams appear to be where the mind works things through, it's really pretty fascinating.

 

[White Bird]

I did my training in the DC SFRA, from an airport in the FRZ. Best decision. If you can operate safely in the SFRA, you'll have no fear of any air space in the country. Great way to improve your radio skills too, as every flight is basically an IFR mission.

Maybe grab a beer with your instructor and tell him your issues? Be frank, and hopefully he will do the same.

I also do think that training in SFRA is a great learning experience. I will talk to the guy and see and I will also try someone else just to get an idea

 

[White Bird]

It is always frustrating learning something new and complex, such as flying or computer programs like Auto Cad, or woman, and so on.

Those who succeed in such endeavors usually all of them become frustrated at some point or another. The difference between them and those who fail is that they never quit until they accomplish their mission.

Try this on landing; Let your plane continue coming down until the tip of the cowling, just behind the propeller, is just below the end of the runway, visually it would look like around an inch.

All you have to do now is hold that picture or point by slowly pulling back on your yoke. If you do not let it vary, the picture holds at that same inch point on your cowling, your flair will be perfect, and your touchdown as close to, if not, a greaser.

Always put your seat in the same position, do not slouch in the seat. If you can not see the picture I described, adjust your seat or buy a pilots seat cushion. Always sit the same in your seat during every flight. This is especially true on landings and steep turns.

Like all things, it might take a few tries, but not much more than that. Tell your instructor that is how mono vision pilots land, by what the picture looks like, not judging their hight above the runway. You will soon find ourself doing both, but get the picture right first.

Never, ever join the loser club, never quit. Perseverance always pays off in the end, no matter what your doing.

I was 61 when I first started flying, I only had one eye, I was 67 when I passed my check ride.

-John

Thank you for the advice man!! I will try your method and see how it goes. Your story is really a big encouragement to me and reminds me how a man can accomplish far more than what he thinks he can. I promise you I wont quit.

Thanks again for the boost