9mm handgun

[airbornejohnny]

I just prefer it to be single action with the hammer back for carry. Seems simpler to me.

I agree. I have yet to have an issue with the slide safety on my 1911 deciding to unsafe itself, and even so there is also the grip safety. Also, with it being a single action, trigger pull is consistently the same, first or 9th round. To each their own; everyone has unique preferences.

 

[jesse]

Yes, but many of these other pistols are like my Bersa Thunder .380 CC. DA/SA in operation. Drop the hammer with the decocker and you now have a safer mode to carry. The one thing that worries me about carrying a 1911 cocked and locked is the ease with which the safety can be released if the gun can move around in the holster. Maybe I'm operating from lack of practical experience, but that thought is running around in the back of my mind. Never mind the fun of trying to conceal a 1911 if you aren't wearing a coat.

I've been carrying my Sig P238 in a pocket holster for years with the hammer back and thumb safety on. I've never had an issue.

My Springfield XD is always chambered and cocked as well but has no exposed hammer and instead of the thumb safety it has a grip safety.

 

[denverpilot]

Anyone else find the trigger safety on Glocks weird? I've never gotten used to those. Just asking out of curiosity.

 

[Anthony]

Anyone else find the trigger safety on Glocks weird? I've never gotten used to those. Just asking out of curiosity.

I'm not a huge Glock fan although the ones I have shot have been reliable and reasonably accurate. I wouldn't hesitate to own or recommend one, but there are many others out there I prefer. The trigger safety bothers me only in that when holstering if something gets caught in the trigger guard, it could cause a negligent discharge. However, with a little care, and a proper holster, I think they are a well designed and safe firearm.

 

[Alexb2000]

Anyone else find the trigger safety on Glocks weird? I've never gotten used to those. Just asking out of curiosity.

It is a little strange. I've never had a problem or seen an accidental discharge that you could blame on the gun.

Shooting 3-gun it's funny how many times someone steps up to the line, goes to pull the trigger, nothing. Safety's on! This happens to competitive shooters, so for someone who buys a gun, throws it in a drawer never to be seen until 3 a.m. one dark night, when they pull it out, and charge downstairs in a stupor to confront the bad guy. I think the lack of a traditional safety is a good idea.

 

[airbornejohnny]

It is a little strange. I've never had a problem or seen an accidental discharge that you could blame on the gun.

Shooting 3-gun it's funny how many times someone steps up to the line, goes to pull the trigger, nothing. Safety's on! This happens to competitive shooters, so for someone who buys a gun, throws it in a drawer never to be seen until 3 a.m. one dark night, when they pull it out, and charge downstairs in a stupor to confront the bad guy. I think the lack of a traditional safety is a good idea.

Personally, I feel that TRAINING is much more appropriate. Owning a firearm is also taking massive responsibility to yourself and those around you. The laws of some states are flat out counter-productive to my train-of-thought. A friend of mine who is USCG was chatting with me about Mass. laws, and apparently they require a separate permit to take your gun to the range to practice with it. F'n stupid IMHO. To gain proficiency and confidence requires practice, and whatever training a person has behind them is what they will fall back on in that 3 a.m. call to arms full of adrenalin. Learning to manipulate weapon controls is part of that learning process.

 

[TMetzinger]

Dirty Harry Dreamers will think they'll put round one center of mass.

Whatever -- first round is covering fire which may or may not hit while scrambling for cover.

DA round one is fine.

I did that ONCE at a range with an M9. Drew, sighted, right in the X-ring at 9 yards I think. I took that target down and kept it. Like two greasers in a row, that was damn luck.

I like the DA/SA in my 239, same as your 229. If I have time, I can always manually put the hammer back for the first round. But in a real case of "need", the difference between the DA and the SA pull just isn't going to matter. When I practice I can routinely do a DA/SA double tap in the kill zone from a holster quite rapidly. The SA round is generally a little closer to center, but either shot would ruin your day, particularly with Hydra-Shock ammo.

 

[jlwilson]

Personally, I feel that TRAINING is much more appropriate. Owning a firearm is also taking massive responsibility to yourself and those around you. The laws of some states are flat out counter-productive to my train-of-thought. A friend of mine who is USCG was chatting with me about Mass. laws, and apparently they require a separate permit to take your gun to the range to practice with it. F'n stupid IMHO. To gain proficiency and confidence requires practice, and whatever training a person has behind them is what they will fall back on in that 3 a.m. call to arms full of adrenalin. Learning to manipulate weapon controls is part of that learning process.

Ding, Ding, Ding We have a winner. It is always training that is the most important part of firearms as with anything - flying included. The firearm - or plane - is just the tool. The most important part of the whole equation is the part between the ears that drives the extremities. It is almost irrelevant as to the brand or type of weapon. It is the user, who has the training and is comfortable with the tool, that is the key.

Just my 2 cent's worth. :wink2:

 

[TMetzinger]

Ding, Ding, Ding We have a winner. It is always training that is the most important part of firearms as with anything - flying included. The firearm - or plane - is just the tool. The most important part of the whole equation is the part between the ears that drives the extremities. It is almost irrelevant as to the brand or type of weapon. It is the user, who has the training and is comfortable with the tool, that is the key.

Just my 2 cent's worth. :wink2:

My stepdad did a good job training me about safety and responsibility with weapons as a kid. The Coast Guard did a good job, too, particularly when I went to FLETC for additional training.

Ciara's getting a rifle/shotgun combo for her birthday, but don't give it away! There's a nice 22/.410 system in her size.

 

[airbornejohnny]

Ding, Ding, Ding We have a winner. It is always training that is the most important part of firearms as with anything - flying included. The firearm - or plane - is just the tool. The most important part of the whole equation is the part between the ears that drives the extremities. It is almost irrelevant as to the brand or type of weapon. It is the user, who has the training and is comfortable with the tool, that is the key.

Just my 2 cent's worth. :wink2:

You bring up another very important subject: thinking clearly within chaos. Service members, police officers, competition shooters, firefighters, pilots, and all kinds of other professionals all require this skill at some point in their careers if they are going to survive the "situation at hand". 90-10 = 90% mental, 10% physical.

 

[jlwilson]

You bring up another very important subject: thinking clearly within chaos. Service members, police officers, competition shooters, firefighters, pilots, and all kinds of other professionals all require this skill at some point in their careers if they are going to survive the "situation at hand". 90-10 = 90% mental, 10% physical.

Exactly! One of the important components of competition is learning to deal with stress while safely handling a firearm. No different than learning to deal with stress while under the hood or in a real instrument approach. To me, the key is to complete the most important task at hand while ignoring all of the extraneous aspects. I'm not saying that I am particularly good at it, but it is something that I strive for whether in competition or in flying. In competition, it is the sights that drive our speed of target acquisition. In flying, we're taught to fly the plane first. And it can be mentally very difficult to separate the non-important from the important. But again, with training, it is achievable.

 

[Anthony]

All great stuff. Training, training, training. We all get that, but the OP asked what 9MM would be a good TARGET pistol. OK?

Nothing about tactics.

 

[jlwilson]

Truthfully, 9's aren't really great 'target' pistols. The more you spend, the better accuracy you will probably get. The longer the slide, the better. If you want more accuracy with a handgun, go .38 super.

 

[Alexb2000]

Personally, I feel that TRAINING is much more appropriate. Owning a firearm is also taking massive responsibility to yourself and those around you. The laws of some states are flat out counter-productive to my train-of-thought. A friend of mine who is USCG was chatting with me about Mass. laws, and apparently they require a separate permit to take your gun to the range to practice with it. F'n stupid IMHO. To gain proficiency and confidence requires practice, and whatever training a person has behind them is what they will fall back on in that 3 a.m. call to arms full of adrenalin. Learning to manipulate weapon controls is part of that learning process.

Of course I agree. I was commenting on the Glock trigger safety. Ask most gun owners when the last time they went to the range to practice CQB scenarios and you will get a ???? Ask them when the last time they even shot their $500 pistol.... Oh a couple of years ago I put a box through it. I just had a friend admit that the Glock he bought for home defense 5 years ago was a .40 instead of a 9mm. He found out one night when he heard something and went to load it with the 9mm shells he bought (true story).

BTW- I don't know about everyone else, but the standard range and rules are useless for defense practice IMO.

Here is the Christmas card one of the places I go to sent out to remind everyone to train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCBNOFmr4nw

 

[Bob Noel]

Personally, I feel that TRAINING is much more appropriate. Owning a firearm is also taking massive responsibility to yourself and those around you. The laws of some states are flat out counter-productive to my train-of-thought. A friend of mine who is USCG was chatting with me about Mass. laws, and apparently they require a separate permit to take your gun to the range to practice with it. F'n stupid IMHO. To gain proficiency and confidence requires practice, and whatever training a person has behind them is what they will fall back on in that 3 a.m. call to arms full of adrenalin. Learning to manipulate weapon controls is part of that learning process.

pardon the sidetrack...I'm in Mass. I'm not aware of any separate permit required for bringing a gun to the range for practice. Does your friend have a reference?

 

[jlwilson]

Of course I agree. I was commenting on the Glock trigger safety. Ask most gun owners when the last time they went to the range to practice CQB scenarios and you will get a ???? Ask them when the last time they even shot their $500 pistol.... Oh a couple of years ago I put a box through it. I just had a friend admit that the Glock he bought for home defense 5 years ago was a .40 instead of a 9mm. He found out one night when he heard something and went to load it with the 9mm shells he bought (true story).

BTW- I don't know about everyone else, but the standard range and rules are useless for defense practice IMO.

Here is the Christmas card one of the places I go to sent out to remind everyone to train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCBNOFmr4nw

There was a study done a few years ago and the average number of rounds through a firearm - any firearm - was 13. Tell's ya how much practice most people do

 

[Ken Ibold]

I figured this would devolve somewhat. Further disclosure: I've had a .22 revolver for decades, but only run about maybe 200-300 rounds a year through it. I don't really NEED to do anything, but ...

 

[Ghery]

I figured this would devolve somewhat. Further disclosure: I've had a .22 revolver for decades, but only run about maybe 200-300 rounds a year through it. I don't really NEED to do anything, but ...

Bill of Rights, not the bill of needs.

I hear what you are saying. I don't need my 1911, but I certainly have fun with it on the range. Given the most recent advice, you might be well served by the Glock 34 like my son uses. Longer barrel and it pretty much shoots where you point it. Of course, if you get involved in competition like him you're going to buy more magazines than you ever thought you might want, along with a bunch of other supplies. Not to mention the ammo he buys in 1000 or 2000 round lots.

 

[airbornejohnny]

Of course I agree. I was commenting on the Glock trigger safety. Ask most gun owners when the last time they went to the range to practice CQB scenarios and you will get a ???? Ask them when the last time they even shot their $500 pistol.... Oh a couple of years ago I put a box through it. I just had a friend admit that the Glock he bought for home defense 5 years ago was a .40 instead of a 9mm. He found out one night when he heard something and went to load it with the 9mm shells he bought (true story).

BTW- I don't know about everyone else, but the standard range and rules are useless for defense practice IMO.

Here is the Christmas card one of the places I go to sent out to remind everyone to train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCBNOFmr4nw

I meant to imply that with training and practice, certain type-specific issues, such as the glock's trigger safety, would present themselves to the user and thus so would a solution, be it more holster awareness or what have you while reholstering. In the same manner, harping on training and practice, would also imply that a good feel for the weapon would also lead to better accuracy and a more instinctive draw/point/shoot which becomes muscle memory and thus one less thing to think about in the case the owner has a need to perform these tasks in self defense with all kinds of adrenalin rushing through their system. Whatever pistol the OP decides to buy, the more he shoots it, the more he learns its ins and outs, pros and cons, and the more proficient he will become with it. My point was simply whatever gun he gets, IMO it would be his duty to himself and his loved ones to practice with it and be competent with it.
There are drills highly relevant to self-defense that do not violate rules of most ranges, and do not even require a holster. In fact, when something goes bump in the night, my pistol is not on my hip, so my "draw" is actually getting it from a drawer or my nightstand...which the little shelf in a shooting lane can stand-in for. A little creativity and outside-the-box thinking can go a long way and won't **** off the RSO.

pardon the sidetrack...I'm in Mass. I'm not aware of any separate permit required for bringing a gun to the range for practice. Does your friend have a reference?

I'll definitely ask, but I did not ask at the time. Heck for all I know maybe it's a Boston City Ordinance...

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I have no training and I don't think there is a shooting range any less than 1 hour or more from here. If anyone lets me fire a gun (and only one person in my entire life has), I tell them I want to know the following:

How to check if it is unloaded

How to load it

How to unload it

How to engage and disengage the safety

Recoil / proper stance

I don't just say "cool" and take the gun and fire it.

That being said, I've only fired two or three guns in my entire life. I don't know anyone that "carries" and I don't see / hear guns in CA. I wonder how much it costs to buy one, plus bullets, plus any fees the shooting range charges. Is it an expensive hobby?

 

[kimberlyanne546]

(PS these were: 1 .22 rifle and 2 12-gauge shotguns hence the recoil issue)

I've never seen or held a small gun that fits in your hand. Well I saw one when I dated a cop but I never touched it.

 

[Clark1961]

Is it an expensive hobby?

So far for me, guns are much less expensive than aviation. As always, YMWV.

Get a used 22 and ammo and you can be shooting for a couple er three hundred. Of course a gun safety course is a good idea so throw in another $100. That'ill get you started. The sky is the limit once yer addicted to buying guns-n-stuff. Don't tell us you weren't warned...

 

[Terry]

I have no training and I don't think there is a shooting range any less than 1 hour or more from here. If anyone lets me fire a gun (and only one person in my entire life has), I tell them I want to know the following:

How to check if it is unloaded

How to load it

How to unload it

How to engage and disengage the safety

Recoil / proper stance

I don't just say "cool" and take the gun and fire it.

That being said, I've only fired two or three guns in my entire life. I don't know anyone that "carries" and I don't see / hear guns in CA. I wonder how much it costs to buy one, plus bullets, plus any fees the shooting range charges. Is it an expensive hobby?

Kimberly,

It is not overly expensive.

I have a 9mm Smith & Wesson. Gun, instructions, gun care, 1,000 target bullets, 1 box of hollow point bullets came to about $650.

I take my wife to the shooting range at least once a month and she actually shoots better or as good as I do.

I have a concealed carry permit as I travel alone at night. I have had concealed self defense training.

Guns don't kill people. Gun laws don't make the criminals get a license.

As in all things, judgement and common sense should be used.

A 9mm is a fairly heavy pistol and has a recoil. If you want to target practice or get familiar with pistols, I would recommend finding a pistol club and see what is available in your area. 9mm may be too much to start with.

22 caliber is an excellent pistol to have fun shooting targets and to see if you would like to target shoot.

Terry

 

[jlwilson]

I have no training and I don't think there is a shooting range any less than 1 hour or more from here. If anyone lets me fire a gun (and only one person in my entire life has), I tell them I want to know the following:

How to check if it is unloaded

How to load it

How to unload it

How to engage and disengage the safety

Recoil / proper stance

I don't just say "cool" and take the gun and fire it.

That being said, I've only fired two or three guns in my entire life. I don't know anyone that "carries" and I don't see / hear guns in CA. I wonder how much it costs to buy one, plus bullets, plus any fees the shooting range charges. Is it an expensive hobby?

Kimberly,

I would be MORE than happy to put you in touch with people who could introduce you to firearms with all those things in mind. That is the whole essence of the sport that I am involved in. It is absolutely the reason that I am directing that sport. It's not just about being able to 'plink at targets', it's about potentially being able to save your own life - especially as a woman.

As a good friend of mine says 'ask me how I know that'. Been there, seen that.

My personal email is: joyce@idpa.com

My sport is: www.idpa.com

It's more than just a sport.

Joyce

 

[gkainz]

You jested about finding a celebrity chiropractor in another thread ... well, you just got an offer from a celebrity gun person, Kimberley. Jump on this one!

 

[jlwilson]

You jested about finding a celebrity chiropractor in another thread ... well, you just got an offer from a celebrity gun person, Kimberley. Jump on this one!

Nah, I'm just another 'gun nut'

 

[gkainz]

Nah, I'm just another 'gun nut'

yeah, but among us nuts, some stand out.

 

[airbornejohnny]

Kimberly, there is some great advice in here, and Joyce is an invaluable resource you would be crazy to not listen to. For what it's worth, if it was me teaching you for the first time seriously handling your own firearm(s), I would suggest a .22 rifle first. They are fairly inexpensive (my ruger10/22 was about $230 used but immaculate), and ammo is very cheap (about $10/100 rounds here in NJ) and easy to find. Many professional shooters began with a .22, and virtually every soldier I served with had one back home they couldn't wait to plink with when we got home. They have very little recoil, and are accurate. All of this makes for a very simple learning curve to get basic fundamentals down such as trigger squeeze, sight picture, breathing, etc. There are inherent differences between rifles and pistols and shotguns that make each unique, but the basics are pretty much the same.

 

[Frank Browne]

Diameter is about .38 in, bullet weights between 115gr and 147gr. Muzzle energies between 320-450 foot-pound.

So it has more energy than a .38 special and less than a .357 mag or 45ACP.

The cemeteries are full of people who thought it is a 'weak' cartridge.

Actually the bullet diameter for the .38 Special is the same as for the .357 Magnum. The .38S was so called because that is the diameter of the loaded case neck. The 9mm fires a bullet of .355" diameter, and at least one manufacturer (I can't remember offhand who) made a revolver that came with 2 cylinders, one for .357/.38 Special and the other chambered in 9mm.

 

[Frank Browne]

yeah, but among us nuts, some stand out.

+1000!

 

[Frank Browne]

The one thing that worries me about carrying a 1911 cocked and locked is the ease with which the safety can be released if the gun can move around in the holster. Maybe I'm operating from lack of practical experience, but that thought is running around in the back of my mind. Never mind the fun of trying to conceal a 1911 if you aren't wearing a coat.

I was greatly concerned about that as well after obtaining my permit, and I didn't carry for a while. I tried every way I could think of to "unsafe" my Kimber and could not do so without considerable force. That combined with a form fitted Galco ISWB and my carry is quite safe and very easily concealed. Doesn't worry me anymore.

 

[Anthony]

Joyce is the man!!!

Errrr.... I mean the woman!

 

[denverpilot]

Dang this thread. It got me poking around the Net and I realized I'd like to try playing around with a Ruger, since I've never fired one.

That led to reading stuff about them, and now I'm thinking about putting out feelers for an older P90 in nice shape.

Found a couple with minor corrosion for sale. That turns me off fast. Shows a lack of care.

Arggghh. Damn Internet.

Maybe I'll save it as a present to myself after completing the Instrument.

(Plus that would keep the priorities in the right order. LOL!)

 

[Henning]

Dang this thread. It got me poking around the Net and I realized I'd like to try playing around with a Ruger, since I've never fired one.

That led to reading stuff about them, and now I'm thinking about putting out feelers for an older P90 in nice shape.

Found a couple with minor corrosion for sale. That turns me off fast. Shows a lack of care.

Arggghh. Damn Internet.

Maybe I'll save it as a present to myself after completing the Instrument.

(Plus that would keep the priorities in the right order. LOL!)

I had an Argentinian HiPower that had been through hell and looked like the dogs breakfast, it was a gift so I wasn't going to not take it... it was a fixed sight model as well. Took it along shooting one time and as sloppy as the slide was and all, it was as accurate as any other HiPower I've shot.

 

[Morne]

Nah, I'm just another 'gun nut'

You are a star!

Kimberly, shooting IDPA is fun, fun, fun!

 

[weilke]

Dang this thread. It got me poking around the Net and I realized I'd like to try playing around with a Ruger, since I've never fired one.

Take a look at the SR9 or SR9c. Striker fired with a 'traditional' safety, chamber indicator, nice and slim, no snags.

 

[Anthony]

Ken,

For a list of good solid 9MM's for accurate range use or home defense here ya go.

Browning Hi Power
CZ-75B
HK P7 (either M8 or PSP)
Sig P226
HK USP

 

[Ghery]

Dang this thread. It got me poking around the Net and I realized I'd like to try playing around with a Ruger, since I've never fired one.

That led to reading stuff about them, and now I'm thinking about putting out feelers for an older P90 in nice shape.

Found a couple with minor corrosion for sale. That turns me off fast. Shows a lack of care.

Arggghh. Damn Internet.

Maybe I'll save it as a present to myself after completing the Instrument.

(Plus that would keep the priorities in the right order. LOL!)

My son picked up a used P90 at Cabela's last year that looked absolutely unused. Nice pistol, but he can't use it in his competitions, hence the Glock 34. I forget what the problem was with it. But, it shoots well and has a larger magazine capacity than a 1911. Keep your eyes open. Something may come along.

 

[dmccormack]

Ken,

For a list of good solid 9MM's for accurate range use or home defense here ya go.

Browning Hi Power
CZ-75B
HK P7 (either M8 or PSP)
Sig P226
HK USP

You missed Sig P229

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Kimberly,

I would be MORE than happy to put you in touch with people who could introduce you to firearms with all those things in mind. That is the whole essence of the sport that I am involved in. It is absolutely the reason that I am directing that sport. It's not just about being able to 'plink at targets', it's about potentially being able to save your own life - especially as a woman.

As a good friend of mine says 'ask me how I know that'. Been there, seen that.

My personal email is: joyce@idpa.com

My sport is: www.idpa.com

It's more than just a sport.

Joyce

Email sent.