8 people in two rides in C172

Artiom

Artiom

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Artiom
I'm planning a trip for two families in C172. Both families are two parents and two kids 10 and 7 years old. Only one pilot(myself).
So I need to make 2 trips. One with 3 kids and one adult and another with 2 adults and one kid. W&B in both cases is OK.
Is it safe and legal to fly C172 with total one pilot and 4 pax on board?
Alternative solution is to have one of the adults drive and meet us at destination.
Your suggestions are greatly appreciated.
 
My grandfather always said, "A 172 is a 3 seater with a full tank of fuel."

But he's old school. He soloed in 1960....he's a little stuck in older ways.
 
Artiom said:
I'm planning a trip for two families in C172. Both families are two parents and two kids 10 and 7 years old. Only one pilot(myself).
So I need to make 2 trips. One with 3 kids and one adult and another with 2 adults and one kid. W&B in both cases is OK.
Is it safe and legal to fly C172 with total one pilot and 4 pax on board?
Alternative solution is to have one of the adults drive and meet us at destination.
Your suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...


Two families consisting of 2 parents and 2 kids each. Then one trip with 3 kids, one adult and one trip with 2 adults and one kid? Huh? did one adult get traded for a kid? Sounds more like you need two trips with 4 pax each or three trips with the last trip one seat empty.
 
gcd89 said:
My grandfather always said, "A 172 is a 3 seater with a full tank of fuel."

But he's old school. He soloed in 1960....he's a little stuck in older ways.
Click to expand...


That is essentially what a new turbo 182 is today (3 seat with full fuel). I guess that just makes it a fast 172!
 
And they wonder why pilots have problems with weight and balance. Can somebody draw him a picture?

skidoo said:
Two families consisting of 2 parents and 2 kids each. Then one trip with 3 kids, one adult and one trip with 2 adults and one kid? Huh? did one adult get traded for a kid? Sounds more like you need two trips with 4 pax each or three trips with the last trip one seat empty.
Click to expand...
 
Artiom said:
I'm planning a trip for two families in C172. Both families are two parents and two kids 10 and 7 years old. Only one pilot(myself).
So I need to make 2 trips. One with 3 kids and one adult and another with 2 adults and one kid. W&B in both cases is OK.
Is it safe and legal to fly C172 with total one pilot and 4 pax on board?
Alternative solution is to have one of the adults drive and meet us at destination.
Your suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Depends on everyones weight and how fare you have to go. Legal? probably. Safe? maybe. Practical? Not hardly. I've been lambasted many times for my opinion of 172s (and J-3s), but that hasn't changed me from thinking that they are very limited in usefulness.
 
You want to explain the new math to us oldsters? I soloed a year before he did.

gcd89 said:
My grandfather always said, "A 172 is a 3 seater with a full tank of fuel."

But he's old school. He soloed in 1960....he's a little stuck in older ways.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
You want to explain the new math to us oldsters? I soloed a year before he did.
Click to expand...
It can be age related. When I first started flying my wife and I totaled 280 lbs and knew a few other couples in the same weight range. The 172s I was flying at the time would carry a bit over 600 lbs with full fuel so for day trips with little or no baggage four plus full fuel worked out fine. Fast forward 30+ years and with the two of us totaling around 320 and similar or worse increases among my friends, 600 lbs is now insufficient for any group of four adults I know well enough to take on a trip. Fortunately my current airplane's payload has increased even more.
 
Clark1961 said:
Children can share a seatbelt according to the regs.
Click to expand...
AFaIK, the only reason that hasn't changed is because any parent who's tried it quickly found that two siblings sharing one belt equals chaos and constant bickering.
 
I think the real answer depends on what engine you've got in that 172 and where you are. I spent a lot of time searching through the mountains of New Mexico for 172's that had been overloaded with 2 people, full fuel and baggage. Density altitude plays a huge role and if you've got a 145HP 1956 172 it doesn't matter anyway.....make 3 trips with fewer passengers or drive. If its a later version with a 180HP engine....make 3 trips with fewer passengers or drive....grandpa isn't an idiot just cause he's old. I didn't solo til '88 but I agree with him. Maybe I'm old too but I'm still here. Something to be said for that.
just my opinions of course and you can do as you wish. You are the one responsible for all the kids, their parents and their futures so make a choice with all that in mind.

Frank
 
wabower said:
You want to explain the new math to us oldsters? I soloed a year before he did.
Click to expand...

No offense, old pilots just have different methods than they teach today. All the old guys I talk to talk about landing with no flaps, and learning to fly without radios, etc....

Nobig thing...
 
tlglenn said:
http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/2010/a-10-121-123.pdf
Click to expand...

There it is, you found it, it's 170lbs combined weight...

As long as approved safety belts are carried aboard the aircraft for all occupants,
and the structural strength requirements for the seats are not exceeded, the seating of two persons whose combined weights does not exceed 170 pounds under one safety belt where the belt can be properly secured around both persons would not be a violation of the regulations for an operation under Part 91.
Click to expand...
 
skidoo said:
Two families consisting of 2 parents and 2 kids each. Then one trip with 3 kids, one adult and one trip with 2 adults and one kid? Huh? did one adult get traded for a kid? Sounds more like you need two trips with 4 pax each or three trips with the last trip one seat empty.
Click to expand...

The way I read it, he (the pilot) is one of the adults. Made perfect sense to me.
 
gismo said:
It can be age related. When I first started flying my wife and I totaled 280 lbs and knew a few other couples in the same weight range. The 172s I was flying at the time would carry a bit over 600 lbs with full fuel so for day trips with little or no baggage four plus full fuel worked out fine. Fast forward 30+ years and with the two of us totaling around 320 and similar or worse increases among my friends, 600 lbs is now insufficient for any group of four adults I know well enough to take on a trip. Fortunately my current airplane's payload has increased even more.
Click to expand...
Good answer! :D
 
Henning said:
There it is, you found it, it's 170lbs combined weight...
As long as approved safety belts are carried aboard the aircraft for all occupants,
and the structural strength requirements for the seats are not exceeded, the seating of two persons whose combined weights does not exceed 170 pounds under one safety belt where the belt can be properly secured around both persons would not be a violation of the regulations for an operation under Part 91.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Legal but not really a good idea. If there's any kind of accident the kids sharing one belt are very likely to be hurt worse than they would have been wearing individual belts.
 
gismo said:
Legal but not really a good idea. If there's any kind of accident the kids sharing one belt are very likely to be hurt worse than they would have been wearing individual belts.
Click to expand...

Darwin at work.
 
I'd either make a third trip for the "extra" adult, or have him/her drive. Putting two kids AND an adult in a 172 just ain't gonna work even if the W&B is OK.

In a 206 or Cherokee Six, I'd be fine with pilot, two adults and two small kids.
 
I read the updated reg on child restraints (posted above) and saw this:

( ii ) “THIS RESTRAINT IS CERTIFIED FOR USE IN MOTOR VEHICLES AND AIRCRAFT” in red lettering

I don't recall ever seeing a child seat with that kind of label. Are they a specialty product?
 
Thanks for your comments.
Couple more details on the trip - it is 30 minutes trip, departure airport elevation 135', destination 257', highest terrain along the route is 1980', Cessna-172N with 160HP engine, forecasted temperature 21 degree Celsius. Trip route KRHV-E16-KMRY.
Have to figure out if I can reserve crew car at Monterey Bay. If not, having one adult driving and meet us there will be obvious choice.
 
Apologize to the OP (not intending to thread creep), but I found it interesting that the NTSB and FAA disagreed on the reasons to or not to require Child Restraints. However, I did find this webpage:
http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/crs/
which gives a clue that the FAA has quitely changed its position.
 
Artiom said:
Have to figure out if I can reserve crew car at Monterey Bay. If not, having one adult driving and meet us there will be obvious choice.
Click to expand...
Seems like you will need two cars. :rofl:

Probably any of the FBOs can get you a rental minivan if you give them some notice.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I read the updated reg on child restraints (posted above) and saw this:

( ii ) “THIS RESTRAINT IS CERTIFIED FOR USE IN MOTOR VEHICLES AND AIRCRAFT” in red lettering

I don't recall ever seeing a child seat with that kind of label. Are they a specialty product?
Click to expand...

Nope, my kid's infant seat said that. Her BOOSTER seat did not.
 
Sounds like you might be legal, but I wouldn't do it.

Hell I just revised a W&B sheet for a 172, UL of 797lbs just doesn't jive with 5 occupants.

Now if one of the kids was younger and you had the 5th seat in the cargo compartment I might think differently.
 
After carefully studying options I decided not to it. Will have one group driving and meet me at the destination.
 
Artiom said:
After carefully studying options I decided not to it. Will have one group driving and meet me at the destination.
Click to expand...


Discression is the better part of valor some times. Before a flight I try and think what the NTSB report would say if I managed to crash. It's kept me from making some poor choices in the past.
 
The only thing that counts is what they write on your death certificate. "Death by misadventure" will be just fine by me.
 
Artiom said:
After carefully studying options I decided not to it. Will have one group driving and meet me at the destination.
Click to expand...
Very good. And that vehicle would be a suburban, or a minivan, which a C172 definetely is not.
 
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