7600 is not for VFR

Salty

Salty

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Salty
I have a friend that was on flight following, in VMC and not in controlled airspace, got a stuck mic, switched off the radio, turned to 7600, flew through a couple ATC regions, switched to 1200, entered a normal pattern and landed.

ATC started calling everyone under the sun when they "saw him fall off radar at 200 feet at his destination airport". He didn't have cell coverage and everyone was blowing up his phone, but nobody got through.

ATC called and gave him a bit of a hard time for flying on 7600 on VFR for an extended period.

Moral of the story, when VFR, it's ok to switch to 7600 for a bit and then over to 1200, but don't keep flying around on 7600. Either land or fly NORDO and out of controlled airspace.

Another thing I learned from this is you have no need to tell them you're dropping FF as long as you're out of controlled airspace. Switch to 1200 any time like and resume own navigation.
 
Salty said:
I have a friend that was on flight following, in VMC and not in controlled airspace, got a stuck mic, switched off the radio, turned to 7600, flew through a couple ATC regions, switched to 1200, entered a normal pattern and landed.

ATC started calling everyone under the sun when they "saw him fall off radar at 200 feet at his destination airport". He didn't have cell coverage and everyone was blowing up his phone, but nobody got through.

ATC called and gave him a bit of a hard time for flying on 7600 on VFR for an extended period.

Moral of the story, when VFR, it's ok to switch to 7600 for a bit and then over to 1200, but don't keep flying around on 7600. Either land or fly NORDO and out of controlled airspace.

Another thing I learned from this is you have no need to tell them you're dropping FF as long as you're out of controlled airspace. Switch to 1200 any time like and resume own navigation.
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i thought ACT would like to know what my intentions are especially when i am on FF. I know a guy at my field who got a lot of calls after he landed in a uncontrolled field. he tried raising center a few times and was getting close to destination, changed to 1200 and CTAF and landed. he started getting calls in about 15 mins
 
WannFly said:
i thought ACT would like to know what my intentions are especially when i am on FF. I know a guy at my field who got a lot of calls after he landed in a uncontrolled field. he tried raising center a few times and was getting close to destination, changed to 1200 and CTAF and landed. he started getting calls in about 15 mins
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Was he on a flight plan, or just FF?
 
WannFly said:
Flight Following only. this dude doesnt believe in flight plan
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VFR flight plan is totally useless, but that's another thread. My smarmy outlook: If you have someone that cares about you, you don't need a flight plan. If you don't have anybody that cares about you, you don't need a flight plan.
 
the discussion was cool, center thought something happened and just wanted to check if everything was fine and was told, in future if you could let us know u are going to disappear, we would appreciate it
 
Salty said:
If you have someone that cares about you, you don't need a flight plan. If you don't have anybody that cares about you, you don't need a flight plan.
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lol.. well said
 
Salty said:
Moral of the story, when VFR, it's ok to switch to 7600 for a bit and then over to 1200, but don't keep flying around on 7600. Either land or fly NORDO and out of controlled airspace.
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Sounds like a bad idea in some airspace.

If this is what they want, the AIM is changeable.
 
Salty said:
I have a friend that was on flight following, in VMC and not in controlled airspace, got a stuck mic, switched off the radio, turned to 7600, flew through a couple ATC regions, switched to 1200, entered a normal pattern and landed.

ATC started calling everyone under the sun when they "saw him fall off radar at 200 feet at his destination airport". He didn't have cell coverage and everyone was blowing up his phone, but nobody got through.

ATC called and gave him a bit of a hard time for flying on 7600 on VFR for an extended period.

Moral of the story, when VFR, it's ok to switch to 7600 for a bit and then over to 1200, but don't keep flying around on 7600. Either land or fly NORDO and out of controlled airspace.

Another thing I learned from this is you have no need to tell them you're dropping FF as long as you're out of controlled airspace. Switch to 1200 any time like and resume own navigation.
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There's nowhere around here that isn't controlled above 1200', so flying out of controlled airspace isn't much of an option. And if I wanted to drop flight following, I would certainly inform the controller. I don't know if that's required, but I've heard controllers searching for planes that had been on ff and stopped responding
 
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WannFly said:
the discussion was cool, center thought something happened and just wanted to check if everything was fine and was told, in future if you could let us know u are going to disappear, we would appreciate it
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I had the exact same experience with Oakland Center a few years ago.
 
MassPilot said:
Unless you crash and end up injured in the middle of nowhere and would like someone to come rescue you...
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If you're on FF and callout a mayday, they'll mark where you drop off radar.
 
If flight following is dropped without telling ATC there will be phone calls. I was on the phone to flight service when the airport manager showed up and said ATC called him to look for me. I lost coms over hill country so called flight service as soon as I parked the plane. I didn’t know to ask for a flight data guy so stumbled around a bit to get a report of safe on ground into the system.
 
Salty said:
VFR flight plan is totally useless, but that's another thread.
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Start the thread and I'll tell you why it isn't.

Salty said:
ATC called and gave him a bit of a hard time for flying on 7600 on VFR for an extended period.
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So why is ATC concerned? I get that reporting no comms when you are VFR is excessive, but does it light up their screen and distract them or something? If you know the flight is VFR and they go NORDO then just let them go. Of all this, I would have talked with the pilot if he entered new controlled airspace when he knew his radio was out, but going to 7600 and never changing it back seems like a "who cares" to someone like me who doesn't know ATC processes and equipment.
 
I was using FF the other day and lost center while flying through a mountainous area. I ended up finding a nearby class D frequency, told them the tail number and to relay that i was cancelling FF, he came back a couple minutes later with a message from center that they greatly appreciated it because center thought i had crashed.
 
JC150 said:
I was using FF the other day and lost center while flying through a mountainous area. I ended up finding a nearby class D frequency, told them the tail number and to relay that i was cancelling FF, he came back a couple minutes later with a message from center that they greatly appreciated it because center thought i had crashed.
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That's different than switching to 1200 while they still have you.
 
MassPilot said:
Unless you crash and end up injured in the middle of nowhere and would like someone to come rescue you...
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According to examples here you get that with FF
 
bflynn said:
Start the thread and I'll tell you why it isn't.



So why is ATC concerned? I get that reporting no comms when you are VFR is excessive, but does it light up their screen and distract them or something? If you know the flight is VFR and they go NORDO then just let them go. Of all this, I would have talked with the pilot if he entered new controlled airspace when he knew his radio was out, but going to 7600 and never changing it back seems like a "who cares" to someone like me who doesn't know ATC processes and equipment.
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yeah, when he flew from one region to another their alarms went off, and they assumed he was IFR or wouldn't leave 7600 in.
 
JC150 said:
I was using FF the other day and lost center while flying through a mountainous area. I ended up finding a nearby class D frequency, told them the tail number and to relay that i was cancelling FF, he came back a couple minutes later with a message from center that they greatly appreciated it because center thought i had crashed.
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This is another reason why monitoring guard (121.5) is a good idea. Yesterday on the way back from the (best) Dam flyin I got pretty far from Campbell approach, and thought they forgot to hand me off. About then Memphis center was on guard calling my tail # and giving me his frequency. And Bob's your uncle!
 
bflynn said:
So why is ATC concerned? I get that reporting no comms when you are VFR is excessive, but does it light up their screen and distract them or something? If you know the flight is VFR and they go NORDO then just let them go. Of all this, I would have talked with the pilot if he entered new controlled airspace when he knew his radio was out, but going to 7600 and never changing it back seems like a "who cares" to someone like me who doesn't know ATC processes and equipment.
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Well, he probably should have squawked 7600 for a minute or two, then switch to 1200 which would have been better IMO. That would tell me that the pilot had a radio problem, was fine, and was continuing VFR.

It sets off an aural alarm and the target will blossom on the radar display, at least when I controlled.
 
mscard88 said:
Well, he probably should have squawked 7600 for a minute or two, then switch to 1200 which would have been better IMO. That would tell me that the pilot had a radio problem, was fine, and was continuing VFR.

It sets off an aural alarm and the target will blossom on the radar display, at least when I controlled.
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Thanks for the information, I expect that would be very distracting to a controller. Moving at glacial speed, they're probably still using the same equipment you used, don't you think?

I agree that he should have done it for just a minute. Hopefully someone explained that to him.
 
denverpilot said:
Sounds like a bad idea in some airspace.

If this is what they want, the AIM is changeable.
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:yeahthat:

Yea, how would I as a pilot know that this is not what they want? They should be publishing info like that in the AIM. I'd be annoyed if they gave me a hard time about it. I'm not a mind reader and I was taught to sqwak 7600 if I have not radio communication ability.
 
bflynn said:
Thanks for the information, I expect that would be very distracting to a controller. Moving at glacial speed, they're probably still using the same equipment you used, don't you think?

I agree that he should have done it for just a minute. Hopefully someone explained that to him.
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You'd have a to ask a current controller, like @Radar Contact, as I've been retired from that gig since '88.
 
neilw2 said:
:yeahthat:

Yea, how would I as a pilot know that this is not what they want? They should be publishing info like that in the AIM. I'd be annoyed if they gave me a hard time about it. I'm not a mind reader and I was taught to sqwak 7600 if I have not radio communication ability.
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Yes, but you wouldn’t fly another 100 miles that way would you?
 
If I lose radio comms, I'm squawking 7600, just like I was taught. I've never seen anything saying that it is for IFR only.
 
Salty said:
Yes, but you wouldn’t fly another 100 miles that way would you?
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Well if my radios are out I'm landing as soon as practicable, so no, I can't imagine I would do that in most situations.

Still though, I can see a situation I would. Lets say I'm VFR above a layer. I'm on FF. All the sudden my radio goes dead. I know there is good VFR 100 miles away (no layer to blow through). Safest course of action is proceed to a VFR destination (assuming nothing else is failing). I would be sqwaking 7600 because I don't have a radio and it wouldn't really occur to me to stop broadcasting that. I guess now I know but still some guidance on that would have been helpful if thats what they want.
 
I don't know of any of Marconi's Laws that affect the flight of an airplane. I wouldn't blare 7600 the whole way, but as my destinations don't generally require a radio, I'm heading there, and then worrying about fixing it after I am wherever I'm going.
 
Salty said:
Yes, but you wouldn’t fly another 100 miles that way would you?
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I wouldn't use it as an excuse to fly into airspace where comms are normally required, but don't you think it's useful information for a controller to have? I'd like to hear what the controllers think.
 
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Salty said:
Yes, but you wouldn’t fly another 100 miles that way would you?
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I might fly the 100 miles. Is it an emergency in good VFR? I don't think so. Would I penetrate a class B or C. No. If my destination airport or one that is close had a control tower, I might repeat the 7600, circle above pattern altitude and back to 1200 and wait for light signals from tower.
 
EdFred said:
I don't know of any of Marconi's Laws that affect the flight of an airplane. I wouldn't blare 7600 the whole way, but as my destinations don't generally require a radio, I'm heading there, and then worrying about fixing it after I am wherever I'm going.
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That’s a great point. Flipping that around, maybe I can ONLY land at a towered field. In that case, my intention has always been to rebroadcast 7600 once I was closer, circle over the field to assess wind direction/duty runway and look for ALDIS lights, and then land.

I’d be happy to be told I’m wrong and that there’s a better way.
 
Salty said:
VFR flight plan is totally useless, but that's another thread. My smarmy outlook: If you have someone that cares about you, you don't need a flight plan. If you don't have anybody that cares about you, you don't need a flight plan.
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I have someone who cares about collecting my life insurance. Does that count?
 
mscard88 said:
Well, he probably should have squawked 7600 for a minute or two, then switch to 1200 which would have been better IMO. That would tell me that the pilot had a radio problem, was fine, and was continuing VFR.

It sets off an aural alarm and the target will blossom on the radar display, at least when I controlled.
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Someone should fell the controllers about the dangers of assuming.

If 7600 isn't for VFR aircraft, why does every primary CFI teach it? And why does the AIM not mention squawking it for a few minutes then going to 1200?
 
The AIM does not supplant good judgment. It's an information manual not an instruction manual. The very first sentence in the AIM with regard to communication failure: "It is virtually impossible to provide regulations and procedures applicable to all possible situations associated with two-way radio communications failure."

For example, most pilots wouldn't squawk 7600 if they lose comms with CTAF/UNICOM, even the idea of doing so seems rather silly. But the AIM doesn't say that. I don't see any reason to continually squawk 7600 for the entire rest of the flight if the flight operates only in an area where radio communication is not required.
 
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Salty said:
VFR flight plan is totally useless, but that's another thread. My smarmy outlook: If you have someone that cares about you, you don't need a flight plan. If you don't have anybody that cares about you, you don't need a flight plan.
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Fallacy of the excluded middle.
 
mscard88 said:
You'd have a to ask a current controller, like @Radar Contact, as I've been retired from that gig since '88.
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Pretty similar still. Aural alarm and blinks bright red with RF.

Not that it matters what I'd do but here it goes anyway. I would change to 7600 for less than a min and then 1200. Fly in airspace that doesn't require comm's and land. If I needed to enter a tower's airspace for some reason then I'd squawk 7600 10 miles from the boundary, enter and look for light gun signals.
 
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