62 year old with no savings?!

Old Geek said:
Listening to pilots giving financial advice is like listening to computer geeks giving advice about women.
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I love the story of the geek who wondered why the really cute gorgeous girls wouldn't give him a chance. I would encourage the geek to give the plainer girls a chance!

My love life took a dramatic turn for the better when I stopped trying to date girls who were too cool for me and gave the plainer ones a chance!
 
Old Geek said:
Listening to pilots giving financial advice is like listening to computer geeks giving advice about women.
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Then again, it's a pretty select group that, one way or another, has managed their money well enough to, for the most part, own a plane.

Like I said, a rarified group that may just have some ideas worth listening to.
 
nddons said:
I was briefly a professor of taxation, have been a CPA for 30 years, and have a Master of Science in Taxation.

Do you have a question, Clark, or are you just here to disrupt the class?

If your disagreement with Art Laffer is legitimate, surely you have an alternative economic position that you'd like to offer.
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I scrolled through all 9 pages of this thread to see Clarks enlightened response to Fast Eddie, so I could put my old economics minor to use, but there was no response...

Guess that means the old adage is still true - it is very easy to poke holes into someone else's argument, but much more difficult to present one of your own!
 
FastEddieB said:
Then again, it's a pretty select group that, one way or another, has managed their money well enough to, for the most part, own a plane.



Like I said, a rarified group that may just have some ideas worth listening to.
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I agree. For the most part I have found active pilots to be lucid, intelligent people who know how to set, and achieve goals. And they know how to figure out and work with in complex systems to achieve the goals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
retailguy said:
I scrolled through all 9 pages of this thread to see Clarks enlightened response to Fast Eddie, so I could put my old economics minor to use, but there was no response...

Guess that means the old adage is still true - it is very easy to poke holes into someone else's argument, but much more difficult to present one of your own!
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Are you surprised? People like Clark and AP do a drive-by, but can't stand up to questions about their premise, and just fade away.
 
nddons said:
Are you surprised? People like Clark and AP do a drive-by, but can't stand up to questions about their premise, and just fade away.
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I just figured he was in training to be the new henning when he finally leaves us for good. Every forum has to have a "self appointed expert" on every topic known to man. That's an internet requirement somewhere, isn't it?:dunno:
 
retailguy said:
I just figured he was in training to be the new henning when he finally leaves us for good. Every forum has to have a "self appointed expert" on every topic known to man. That's an internet requirement somewhere, isn't it?:dunno:
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Our own Dos Equis guy Henning even told us recently in a different thread that he was flying next to a volcano when it began erupting and had to alter his course because of the flaming boulders that were shooting out of the top.

Is there ANYTHING he hasn't done? Answer: not in his mind.
 
FastEddieB said:
Then again, it's a pretty select group that, one way or another, has managed their money well enough to, for the most part, own a plane.

Like I said, a rarified group that may just have some ideas worth listening to.
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: I've owned planes most of my adult life and have never even remotely been accused of managing money well.:rofl:
 
Henning said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: I've owned planes most of my adult life and have never even remotely been accused of managing money well.:rofl:
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well...? :yikes:

Henning said:
??? A Baron or 310 costs between $25-$30k to own/operate 100 hrs a year. $40k a year is more than plenty for me to live on, more than plenty, I won't be going bankrupt.
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nddons said:
Our own Dos Equis guy Henning even told us recently in a different thread that he was flying next to a volcano when it began erupting and had to alter his course because of the flaming boulders that were shooting out of the top.

Is there ANYTHING he hasn't done? Answer: not in his mind.
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No, I was running a yacht from our base in Jakarta out to the Mentawi islands for a surf trip, and that takes you right past Krakatoa. It's way scarier when you can only do 11 kts, couple weeks later the Tsunami hit as we were heading back.
 
Let's change the subject a bit and talk about pensions... Both public and private. I look forward to learning something here....(I don't have a pension, just regular retirement savings)

As I see it, a pension is a bit like SS. All the money paid out/oblogations is not sitting there in a lump sum to be drawn from. The public pensions have the right to tax to remain solvent. The private pensions have (had) some pretty loose requirements and fantastical estimations of future company and investment performance.

As someone who is a taxpayer and non-pension holder, I look at a pension payout and calculate what I would need to have in conservative/post-retirement investments to spin off the equivalent cash. I am not sure if this is still an acceptable calculation, but, to me, each dollar paid annually is worth about 25 in the retirement account (I'm using the idea of the 4% withdrawal).

So, someone getting $40k per year from a pension is receiving the equivalent of taking 4% from $1m sitting in conservative investments. This helps me both understand how important my own savings are, as well as communicate how a "nice $40k per year pension" is worth a million bucks...

Now, in reality, it is not $1m bucks. It is some portion of a pile of money under management PLUS dollars taken from current workers and profits. A great visual aid would be chart showing how many taxpayers or what profit margins and sales are needed to cover that part of the obligations...

It seems to me that if folks lucky enough to still have pensions could be shown this information, they would vote and act in a manner that encouraged fiscal responsibility. Some get it. Some don't.

As for the companies that have pensions that go under, who is to blame for allowing the rules to get so lax? I guess what I am getting at is that there is probably blame on both sides of the aisle...

Financial literacy and discussions like this aren't needed just in school, but at work, too...
 
nddons said:
Our own Dos Equis guy Henning even told us recently in a different thread that he was flying next to a volcano when it began erupting and had to alter his course because of the flaming boulders that were shooting out of the top.

Is there ANYTHING he hasn't done? Answer: not in his mind.
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Henning said:
No, I was running a yacht from our base in Jakarta out to the Mentawi islands for a surf trip, and that takes you right past Krakatoa. It's way scarier when you can only do 11 kts, couple weeks later the Tsunami hit as we were heading back.
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Funny, the other version that was posted here was henning was riding a motorbike and avoiding the flying boulders. :rolleyes:

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense". Tom Clancy

"No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar". Abraham Lincoln
 
jhausch said:
Let's change the subject a bit and talk about pensions... Both public and private. I look forward to learning something here....(I don't have a pension, just regular retirement savings)

As I see it, a pension is a bit like SS. All the money paid out/oblogations is not sitting there in a lump sum to be drawn from. The public pensions have the right to tax to remain solvent. The private pensions have (had) some pretty loose requirements and fantastical estimations of future company and investment performance.

As someone who is a taxpayer and non-pension holder, I look at a pension payout and calculate what I would need to have in conservative/post-retirement investments to spin off the equivalent cash. I am not sure if this is still an acceptable calculation, but, to me, each dollar paid annually is worth about 25 in the retirement account (I'm using the idea of the 4% withdrawal).

So, someone getting $40k per year from a pension is receiving the equivalent of taking 4% from $1m sitting in conservative investments. This helps me both understand how important my own savings are, as well as communicate how a "nice $40k per year pension" is worth a million bucks...

Now, in reality, it is not $1m bucks. It is some portion of a pile of money under management PLUS dollars taken from current workers and profits. A great visual aid would be chart showing how many taxpayers or what profit margins and sales are needed to cover that part of the obligations...

It seems to me that if folks lucky enough to still have pensions could be shown this information, they would vote and act in a manner that encouraged fiscal responsibility. Some get it. Some don't.

As for the companies that have pensions that go under, who is to blame for allowing the rules to get so lax? I guess what I am getting at is that there is probably blame on both sides of the aisle...

Financial literacy and discussions like this aren't needed just in school, but at work, too...
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Technically both private and public defined benefit pensions are supposed to have the money needed invested in separate funds. In reality many don't and you will see figures like a pension liability is 60% funded. One of the issues is that when investment income is doing well then nothing needs to get contributed but the company/agency. For companys they can even claim the excess income as profit which makes them look even better. It's when investments don't do well or lose money that it becomes a problem.
 
denverpilot said:
He will be fine. We've decided to be a welfare State. There's no backing that bus up, once it's gone off the cliff.

I laughed today when I saw another "news" headline that said Greece was "running out of money". I'm pretty sure if you have massive debts, you ran out of money a long time ago. Germany just doesn't have any good reason to invade, since then they'd be responsible for the people there, too.

Where are we at now, have we hit $20 Trillion yet? Dude has no worries. He won't starve as long as our loans look a tiny bit better than Greece's loans.
The goal used to be to build wealth and try to leave it to family* to make each succeeding generation a little better off. There were always bound to be more failures at that goal than successful people.

We've now labeled those who's families succeeded at it, "evil rich people" and "trust fund babies" and the like. And granted, some of the offspring truly grew up to be azzhats, knowing they could do or buy anyone, ahem, anything. So some of the disgust is earned rather than just a stereotype.

*Obviously the goal of leaving it to family may not apply if you're single. And you don't want to leave it to the kids if they appear to be already turning into azzhats, as mentioned above. You know if they're going that route. Jut don't do it. LOL!

We will probably change our Will documents soon to leave anything we have left, if anything, to nieces and nephews unless a better option comes along.
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Your state has little competition when it comes to being a welfare state. Here in kalifornia we are the kings of that. Where I live and work we give section 8 housing (free), subsidized phones, EBT cards for food and cash which can be used at many fast food restaurants, etc..
In my job I know the peoples addresses, I see the cloths they wear and can look at the cars they drive. Hell, you can even be an illegal alien and receive these benefits. Some of these so called poor live in newer houses and drive better cars than I do. Nothing all that bad about being broke and not having a job where I live.
 
jtheune said:
Technically both private and public defined benefit pensions are supposed to have the money needed invested in separate funds. In reality many don't and you will see figures like a pension liability is 60% funded. One of the issues is that when investment income is doing well then nothing needs to get contributed but the company/agency. For companys they can even claim the excess income as profit which makes them look even better. It's when investments don't do well or lose money that it becomes a problem.
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And that is why pensions have gone sour. Because the capital class keeps f$$$ing with the proletariat's share of the fruits and claiming it as their own. They just can't help themselves but to steal candy from the baby, especially one who is presently too appeased by TV, sports venues and cheap personal telecommunication devices, to torch the street over it.

It's why we need a real labor movement in this Country (not this bi-party difference-without-distinction joke of a system) and bring pensions back with real teeth; fiduciary duty and all that jazz, you know, that kryptonite for the finacíer class. We don't have to go the nanny state route and doom everyone to indigence whilst simultaneously complaining about the burden of paying for everybody, as long as we put the median income class first. Teach a man to fish type of thing. But what do we do? We steal the middle class man's fishing net and then complain the Country's gone to hell with swelling welfare rolls. I digress.

Alternatively, I like the B-fund idea the airlines are implementing, as long as the % is kept in the high teens or higher, as currently set. Screw employee-funded retirement and the 401k, that thing is highway robbery for the median W2 earner and below.
 
hindsight2020 said:
fiduciary duty and all that jazz, you know, that kryptonite for the finacíer class. We don't have to go the nanny state route and doom everyone to indigence whilst simultaneously complaining about the burden of paying for everybody, as long as we put the median income class first. Teach a man to fish type of thing. But what do we do? We steal the middle class man's fishing net and then complain the Country's gone to hell with swelling welfare rolls. I digress.
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My dad wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's did ok, and never relied on a pension. I think the one, unquestionable thing he taught me as a kid was to never, ever rely on someone else taking care of your retirement income. He was completely anti-pension, and lo-and-behold when his wife went to retire from Cubic corp, surprise, the pension fund had been raided to pay for two massive court judgments and there was almost nothing left. She worked for Cubic for 27 years, retired as a middle manager, did everything right, contributed to the pension fund like a good drone and the company and it's top brass screwed them all. My dad was so mad he was seriously temped to hunt the CEO down and kill him, and it wasn't even his pension.

So, yes - we need some kind of of super-accountability in place for pensions where the CEO, CFO are not just financially liable, but criminally liable for insuring that the pension as funded is safe. They climb the ladder, and take the big money, then take the big risk with it as well. As the rules are written now, all they have to do is say 'sorry, we tried' and there's almost no real liability. Oh, and they also get to deploy the golden parachute and live comfortably ever after. Yes, I know this sounds lib/progressive, but in this case of pensions and funding, there needs to be some real reform.

It was a lesson I'll never forget, and I have no pension, and no plans to rely on any pension for my retirement.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Funny, the other version that was posted here was henning was riding a motorbike and avoiding the flying boulders. :rolleyes:

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense". Tom Clancy

"No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar". Abraham Lincoln
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I'm sorry you have such a sad life that you have to tell lies about me to make yourself more impressive.
 
My dad has plenty of money, can't not **** himself, but has plenty of money. Living too long is not something I'm inclined to do.
 
Henning said:
It's not about blaming the people for not seeing through it, they lack the option not to participate, and lack the capacity to self moderate. 80% of the species is stupid, and the .0002% know that well and follow P.T. Barnums teachings making full use of that fact. That is why mankind needs better leadership and option in financial market. Without those two, mankind will follow the path of greatest profit right into extinction.



You think savings and investment are security, but they are not because the basis of our entire economy is a figment of imagination, a creation based only in faith, and that faith is in a global Ponzi scheme that is tenuous at best.
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Security? Hell no. Just options. Sometimes short term ones. Sometime long term.

Apparently today the gas station has faith since they took mine to fuel the diesel. Tomorrow, who knows.

It's not as tenuous as you think there, Chicken Little. Unless you're planning on finding and refining your own petroleum products while also raising and growing your own food and all the million other things we trade our "time chits" for, so you can entertain the wigs on the boats, there will always be a market for currency or trade. Something representing the value of work. Even if it's just a logbook of your time spent working.

Yeah the system is flawed, but I doubt you're really interested in the alternative. And neither are any of the secret cabal you say wants all of it. They still need things done.

Wage slaves are easier to maintain than fully owned slaves. Well easier if you have any morals. If you're willing to shoot the old and infirm, no. Then the real ones are probably cheaper. Depends on if you have enough land for housing and the neighbors don't want it.

That's what history shows, anyway.

But as far as cash goes, it's just a variable value option generator. No cash on hand, one less option. Various skills also are easy to covert to cash (and others aren't) as are other assets. Or the skills and assets can be used for barter.
 
Money is good, but it isn't failsafe. It can be taken away easy enough. Isolating yourself and never sleeping so you can guard your pot of gold is going to be miserable and fail. Besides health is the only wealth worth anything. My retirement plan is to work just enough hours as a Walmart greeter to cover a weeks worth of tuna fish and ensure. I'll sleep on the beach, shower at the gym, smile at the pretty girls. And go to glory when called.
 
My family experience with the last depression, which will look bland compared the oncoming, I think, taught us to never trust the banks, the government, or wall street. Once things evened out, everybody ran right out and remade the exact same mistakes, done larger, for far too long, and everyone will suffer greatly for it relatively soon.

The best thing that could come from the swelling tsunamis of economic collapse would be if the federal government just went under, like the once-upon-a-time UsSR, instead of the scorched earth the elite class will put us through trying to protect themselves at our expense when the bottom falls out and the government starts feeding on us to stay in business.
 
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Henning said:
I'll worry just plenty about my needs, why don't you tend to yours and shut the **** up about mine.
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One of the beautiful things about this country is that we can speak about those things we so desire. Seems like your panties are a bit out of alignment. Maybe the government can assist you with that as well.
 
Interesting....I have 2 pensions and 2 401K plans as well as stocks and property.
I cannot imagine starting my salad years (in 4 years) with nothing expecting others to take care of me.

What an ass.......(did I say that out loud??....)
 
ClimbnSink said:
Money is good, but it isn't failsafe. It can be taken away easy enough. Isolating yourself and never sleeping so you can guard your pot of gold is going to be miserable and fail. Besides health is the only wealth worth anything.
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Amen.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Money is good, but it isn't failsafe. It can be taken away easy enough. Isolating yourself and never sleeping so you can guard your pot of gold is going to be miserable and fail. Besides health is the only wealth worth anything. .
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That might be sort of true, but when I have to go to the Doctor for anything serious, I am sort of happy that I have managed to accumulate a small amount of worth to trade for the services of the physician.
 
JOhnH said:
That might be sort of true, but when I have to go to the Doctor for anything serious, I am sort of happy that I have managed to accumulate a small amount of worth to trade for the services of the physician.
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I find this funny. For I saved my whole life. Then the wife becomes ill, then I become ill. Jump forward 15 years the wife is better I am not. In this time we loose all our saving and become homeless do to medical bills and everything that goes with them.

So that wealth you secured can be taken from you in a matter of a few years if your health never gets better and you are not able to work any longer. What happens, you loose your insurance then go broke. They will take every penny you have saved. Ones health or lack of should not make a family go broke and become homeless. But it happens all the time in America.

Tony
 
1600vw said:
I find this funny. For I saved my whole life. Then the wife becomes ill, then I become ill. Jump forward 15 years the wife is better I am not. In this time we loose all our saving and become homeless do to medical bills and everything that goes with them.

So that wealth you secured can be taken from you in a matter of a few years if your health never gets better and you are not able to work any longer. What happens, you loose your insurance then go broke. They will take every penny you have saved. Ones health or lack of should not make a family go broke and become homeless. But it happens all the time in America.

Tony
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OK, you have seen both sides. Which would you prefer; to have some wealth to pay for medical care, or not.
 
JOhnH said:
OK, you have seen both sides. Which would you prefer; to have some wealth to pay for medical care, or not.
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Not needing the medical care is the only way to win. Being able to pay for it is at best second place.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Not needing the medical care is the only way to win. Being able to pay for it is at best second place.
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I can't disagree with either statement.
But given a choice, I would rather have wealth than not.
But they are not exclusionary.

If necessary and possible, I could and would trade that wealth for heath. But the fact that health is more important than wealth in no way diminishes the value or usefulness of the latter.
 
JOhnH said:
OK, you have seen both sides. Which would you prefer; to have some wealth to pay for medical care, or not.
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Have you ever been hungry or slept out in the street with a broken back. I have done both. I prefer a country where one can live and get sick and not go broke. Where if you loose your job due to health issues your insurance does not terminate. One where if you are ill you do not have to fight for SS Disability for 7 years and no health care in those seven years. I prefer to live in a country that cares for its citizens even if they are ill. One where if you do not have insurance or the correct insurance you do not have to wait over a year to get this coverage before any doctor will see you and all your doing is getting worse.

Once you become broke the health care system and everyone else will turn thier back on you. Family will get tired of hearing about it.

If I had my way I would want unlimited funds. No need to worry. But how many have that?

Our health should not be for profit. Conflict of interests.

Tony
 
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