555 nm each way, what to buy or do?

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Jim
The straight line route between middle Tennessee to middle Oklahoma, every other week is 555 nm.

I currently flying a 1993 Socata Tampico (TB9). Top end cruise is 105 kts. at that speed I am blowing through 8.5 gph. It has two KX155s, one with glideslope and one without. VFR GPS. No autopilot. It is built for comfort, not for speed. (For those who don't know, 160 HP Lycoming O-320-D2A, Sensenich fixed pitch propeller pitched midway between climb and cruise, & fixed landing gear.) By the time I add wheel pants, constant speed propeller, GPS, and an autopilot I could have bought a much faster aircraft.

As it is the trip is about 6 hours of flight time. That means a mandatory fuel & relief break along the way.

I would REALLY like to do this on one tank and in 4.5 hours or less. Yes, I can hold it that long if need be. I also know how to use a Gatoraide bottle. ;) That means that I am looking at a 135 kt or higher cruise aircraft. I really would like to have an approach certified GPS, but you look hard enough you can find something with a Garmin 430 in it.

I'm a big boy. I'm 6'1" and big. Like over 300 big. I should weigh about 220-240, but I don't. I love the comfort of my Tampico, but don't think I can afford a Trinidad (80K with a run out engine. 125K for a well equipped and lots of time left on the engine.)

I'm a CSEL with my instrument and a bit under 500 hours. More than half cross country. 77 hours of night. I'm not instrument Proficient right now, per the FAA, and even when I was I was not prepared for hard IFR. Bust through a layer to start a trip, no problems. Hand fly for a couple of hours in the clouds by choice for practice, no problems. Approaches to minimums? Need lots of practice. 49 simulated instrument. 23 actual instrument. A little under a hundred hours of complex. A handful of hours of high performance. Zero multi. Zero tail dragger.

First thoughts are Comanche & Arrow. I flew LOTS of high wing Cessna aircraft for the first 250 hours or so. I like the idea of being able to camp under the wing at fly ins. I flown a couple of early Arrows, a T-34, an Arrow IV, an Aero Commander 112, a Saratoga, and a 300 HP 182. I LIKE two doors, but it is not the end of the world.

I can do the owner maintenance. I have my LSRM-A and have a strong power industry maintenance background, but cannot sign off anything other than owner maintenance.

Anyway, you now know too much about me. Any ideas?
 
RV-10 is the answer, to get that out of the way.

My suggestion is to try on a Bonanza.
 
Cherokee 235 fits your mission, but im partial. Its not the fastest thing, but you only asked for 135knots. Which is about what I get.

Im 6'3 290lbs and I feel your pain. But as long as no one is in the back seat behind me, ive got more legroom then I need. Shoulder room is not great with a co-pilot but i've flown comfortably with my CFI for a few hours with little complaints. Long range tanks, and great useful. 13GPH though.

I could be pursuaded to sell mine if a serious offer was on the table.
 
Arrow III with 72 gallon tanks. Non turbo. Range is no sweat and cruise will be 15 kts faster on roughly the same fuel burn.
 
182RG is 12 gph at 150kts give or take.
 
555nm in 4.5 hours is a 123 knot block speed. You'd need at least 145 knots cruise TAS to do that, not 135, so I don't see an Arrow or 235 Cherokee as feasible. You're probably talking at least 235HP with retractable gear to get the speed you want. That's like a C-182RG, Comanche 250 (not 180), Bonanza, Lance/Saratoga RG etc. You didn't say what your budget was, but you did suggest that it was less than $120K. Close to that should buy you a very decent version of one of those, but you're not going to be seeing much that meets your needs in the $60-80K range.
 
Comanche 180hp would be my top certified choice

Glasair RG or lance would be my top experimental choice


Another GREAT quick cheap transport Wittman Tailwind

Tailwindtaxi.jpg
 
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Sticking with fixed gear, a 182P/Q would fit the 135 knot requirement, the range requirement and the big pilot comfort requirement. ;) and you should be able to get a decent one in the $70-85K range. :D
Lots of options, but not all of them are comfy for us full grown guys. ;)
 
250 Comanche is 155-157 knots on 14.3 gph at about 8000.' You can see nice ones from $45-55k. Ed Fred has one for sale....with G430.

You might see if he would want your plane as partial trade?
 
555nm in 4.5 hours is a 123 knot block speed.
I'm not familiar with the term block speed. My number showed 4 hours and 5 minutes if at cruise the whole time. I added on 25 minutes to account for reduced speed during the climb. Maintaining speed during the descent has never been an issue. :)


You'd need at least 145 knots cruise TAS to do that, not 135, so I don't see an Arrow or 235 Cherokee as feasible. You're probably talking at least 235HP with retractable gear to get the speed you want. That's like a C-182RG, Comanche 250 (not 180), Bonanza, Lance/Saratoga RG etc.
I'm half resigned to the fact that I will either have to stop for fuel when flying west due to headwinds or I will have to bring extra Gatoraide bottles. Going east should not be a problem.

You didn't say what your budget was, but you did suggest that it was less than $120K. Close to that should buy you a very decent version of one of those, but you're not going to be seeing much that meets your needs in the $60-80K range.
I honestly don't know, but I suspect it is in the 60-80K range.

Thanks,

Jim
 
I did this trip weekly for a long time, actually had a hangar in both places for about three years. Fit could be a problem, but for me a Mooney 252 was perfect. My fastest times, were under 2.5 eastbound, sucking O2 in the winter. Worst time was ~5 westbound into a terrible headwind. I suspect if I went to the trouble to calculate it, my average, both ways year round was right at 3, 3.5 hours. But I did the flight levels eastbound almost all winter, typically 190, 210 or 230. 250 if the winds were really good. 17.5 summer was pretty common. If I remember correctly, HSD to MBT was ~570NM. Getting out of OKC IFR was sometimes a hassle with traffic, so I typically left VFR and picked up a clearance airborne East of the area.

Edit: I've since made the trip a few times in my Waco. Then I don't mind it taking 6 hours.:D:D:D
 
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The straight line route between middle Tennessee to middle Oklahoma, every other week is 555 nm.
Any ideas?

Here is your ride, with change left over.

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_823926_Bellanca+Turbo+Viking.html

High-altitude cruise is where the Turbo Viking shines. At 12,500 feet, the airplane trued 167 knots on 73-percent power for an average fuel burn of 15.5 gph. The handbook says that at 75-percent power, the Viking will true 187 knots at 20,000 feet and 193 knots at 24,000 feet, all on 15.9 gph. Bonanza pilots might be sniggering that this isn't terribly impressive speed for a 300-hp airplane and they'd be right; the Viking, despite its clean wing, is not as a whole as aerodynamically efficient as some other designs. This fact bothers Viking owners not at all.
 
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250 Comanche is 155-157 knots on 14.3 gph at about 8000.' You can see nice ones from $45-55k. Ed Fred has one for sale....with G430.

You might see if he would want your plane as partial trade?

Took me a little while to find EdFred. I just so happens that I will be in Grand Rapids next week! I'll PM him to see if we can set up a time.

Thanks,

Jim
 
I'm not familiar with the term block speed.
Average speed takeoff to landing.

My number showed 4 hours and 5 minutes if at cruise the whole time. I added on 25 minutes to account for reduced speed during the climb. Maintaining speed during the descent has never been an issue. :)
Typically, you see block speeds about 15 knots less than cruise TAS when averaged over a few hundred hours of flying.

I'm half resigned to the fact that I will either have to stop for fuel when flying west due to headwinds or I will have to bring extra Gatoraide bottles. Going east should not be a problem.
Be fully resigned to fuel stops westbound unless you can find a plane that carries a lot more more than six hours of gas (4.5 hours of flying plus alternate and reserve). I see lots of days when the headwind westbound is over 30 knots. Put that together with a 135-knot cruise speed, and you're talking six hours of cruising. But, if you can live with all that, then a 135-knot airplane will do.

I honestly don't know, but I suspect it is in the 60-80K range.
Lots of 135 knot planes in that price range, but with at least six hours of fuel? C-182 with long range tanks, Grumman Tiger with the 18-gallon O&N aux tank (about $6K to add to any Tiger), 235 Cherokee (84 gallons standard), Arrow II or later with the 74 gallon tanks. Cardinal RG and Comanche 180 only carry 60-61 gallons, which isn't quite enough for six hours unless you slow down, and then it takes more than six hours to go your distance.
 
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They are the little known bargain of the Cessna brand.
 
Nah. Cannot make the trip westbound in winter. Due to headwinds. RBL is correct, 145 knots is minimum and the best I ever got in the Cardinal RG was 139 with it all shaking out.

Comanche 250.
Hopped up J35 Bonanza with an IO-540.
Can't fit him into a Mooney...
Early Retract C210

...will do the job. That route has ferocious west winds from Dec to Early April.
 
K. the book says 148Kts for the RG. Guess that's optimistic. The J35 is a sweet flyer. Tip tanks would take him pretty easy.
 

A 177RG, I just barfed a little :rolleyes2:

My recommends still win....yep winning!

So someone beat my Tailwind for a bang for the buck transporter, especially since the OP mentioned owner mx!

Here's one for 28k

NzRGOUQ5ODAzODg5MzlCMDRFMTk6ODY2NzBjM2RmMGY5MGQ5NTRkNjlhY2YwZTcxYjBmY2Y=


"1994 W-10 Wittman Tailwind. Lycoming O-320-E3D 150HP.*** Aircraft total time since new:*434.4*hours.*
Engine total time:* 1934 hours 434.4 SMOH** Fuel: 43 gallons, with 10 in aux tank.* IFR instruments.
Sterba 68-72 Wood*Prop** Empty Weight 852 lbs.*
This is a well built Tailwind.

170 mph cruise
800-900 mile range
Great rate of climb!

IFR Instument Panel

Instruments include:

Clock
Vacuum gauge
Airspeed Indicator
Heated Pitot Tube
Turn & Bank
Attitude Indicator
Directional Gyro
Marker Beacon
Encoding Altimeter
Verticle Speed Indicator
Tachometer with*hour meter
Cylinder Head Temp gauge
Exhaust Gas Temp gauge
Manifold Pressure Gauge
Oil Pressure, Oil Temp
Voltmeter
Eyebrow Instrument Panel lights
Overhead Panel and map*lights
Strobe lights on wingtips
Aux tank fuel pump
ELT with recent battery

Airmap 2000 GPS
Narco Escort II Nav/Com 720
Icom 720 Nav/Com
King K176A Transponder
Intercom system

Covered with Stits system*& Polytone paint.
Cleveland Wheels and Brakes
Cross over exhasut system
Quick change oil drain
New Tires and New Brake Pads
Michelin leak resistant tubes
New battery

New Tinted Windows
Standard large baggage area
Cloth Seats
New Paint
Recent Annual Inspection

Horizontal and Verticle Trim adjusters.

Spin on Oil Filter
Oil/Air separator
Recent new Slick Mags, and Ignition Harness, and Plugs"
http://tailwindaircraft.info/
 
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That route has ferocious west winds from Dec to Early April.

12,500' trued out at 170k on 16 gal, with 78 gallons on board.

Do the math.

555NM / 178k = 3.11 hours in route X 16 gph =50 gallons. leaves 28 gallons in the tanks or nearly 2 hours flight time.

Turbo Viking 300 $65k
the Viking will true 187 knots at 20,000 feet and 193 knots at 24,000 feet,
 
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Everyone's going to give you their favourite now. Or an RV-10.

Highest speed for lowest fuel consumption: Mooney. But not ideal for bigger guys. I'd go for a 210 myself, or a 182RG. Or a Bonanza if you can stomach the low wing. The Viking isn't a bad shout either.
 
A 177RG, I just barfed a little :rolleyes2:

My recommends still win....yep winning!

So someone beat my Tailwind for a bang for the buck transporter, especially since the OP mentioned owner mx!

Here's one for 28k

NzRGOUQ5ODAzODg5MzlCMDRFMTk6ODY2NzBjM2RmMGY5MGQ5NTRkNjlhY2YwZTcxYjBmY2Y=


"1994 W-10 Wittman Tailwind. Lycoming O-320-E3D 150HP.*** Aircraft total time since new:*434.4*hours.*
Engine total time:* 1934 hours 434.4 SMOH** Fuel: 43 gallons, with 10 in aux tank.* IFR instruments.
Sterba 68-72 Wood*Prop** Empty Weight 852 lbs.*
This is a well built Tailwind.

170 mph cruise
800-900 mile range
Great rate of climb!

IFR Instument Panel

Instruments include:

Clock
Vacuum gauge
Airspeed Indicator
Heated Pitot Tube
Turn & Bank
Attitude Indicator
Directional Gyro
Marker Beacon
Encoding Altimeter
Verticle Speed Indicator
Tachometer with*hour meter
Cylinder Head Temp gauge
Exhaust Gas Temp gauge
Manifold Pressure Gauge
Oil Pressure, Oil Temp
Voltmeter
Eyebrow Instrument Panel lights
Overhead Panel and map*lights
Strobe lights on wingtips
Aux tank fuel pump
ELT with recent battery

Airmap 2000 GPS
Narco Escort II Nav/Com 720
Icom 720 Nav/Com
King K176A Transponder
Intercom system

Covered with Stits system*& Polytone paint.
Cleveland Wheels and Brakes
Cross over exhasut system
Quick change oil drain
New Tires and New Brake Pads
Michelin leak resistant tubes
New battery

New Tinted Windows
Standard large baggage area
Cloth Seats
New Paint
Recent Annual Inspection

Horizontal and Verticle Trim adjusters.

Spin on Oil Filter
Oil/Air separator
Recent new Slick Mags, and Ignition Harness, and Plugs"
http://tailwindaircraft.info/

You do realize he said he was big right?? As cool as a Whitman is I couldn't even get in the plane much less comfortably fly it! Given I'm a few inches taller but there is no way he's going to fit in a Whitman.
 
12,500' trued out at 170k on 16 gal, with 78 gallons on board.

Do the math.

555NM / 178k = 3.11 hours in route X 16 gph =50 gallons. leaves 28 gallons in the tanks or nearly 2 hours flight time.

Turbo Viking 300 $65k
the Viking will true 187 knots at 20,000 feet and 193 knots at 24,000 feet,

+ 6ft 300Lbs in a Vike? Sorry Tom, that might be a bad plan.
 
A 177RG, I just barfed a little :rolleyes2:

My recommends still win....yep winning!

So someone beat my Tailwind for a bang for the buck transporter, especially since the OP mentioned owner mx!

I didn't know this was a contest. :rolleyes:
 
A 177RG, I just barfed a little :rolleyes2:

My recommends still win....yep winning!

So someone beat my Tailwind for a bang for the buck transporter, especially since the OP mentioned owner mx!

He's 300Lbs. Maybe you want him to put some servos in it, and use it like an R/C?

(pssst; You got barf on all over yourself) :lol:
 
+ 6ft 300Lbs in a Vike? Sorry Tom, that might be a bad plan.

1 cheek in each seat, left foot on the far left pedal, right foot on the far right pedal.

You would have to try it on for size.

but the Vike will certainly do the job.
 
I'm 6'4 270-280 depending on what i eat for breakfast and currently fly an PA-28 180 and its comfortable to fly but its not gonna get enough speed. A tiger is roomier and the canopy makes getting in and out a breeze. If you get a tiger with the right set up and it will cruise around 140 knots. I saw about 134-135 in mine. A breeze to fly as well. Not many planes are comfortable for wide folks but with a plane line a Cessna 182 or 206 adding bubble windows makes a world of difference. This sounds to me like a fixed gear Saratoga with no AC or a Cessna 206.
 
12,500' trued out at 170k on 16 gal, with 78 gallons on board.

Do the math.

555NM / 178k = 3.11 hours in route X 16 gph =50 gallons. leaves 28 gallons in the tanks or nearly 2 hours flight time.

Turbo Viking 300 $65k
the Viking will true 187 knots at 20,000 feet and 193 knots at 24,000 feet,
TD a Viking will do the job. He just doesn't live in Texas where he can get good service on the frame.
 
My VariEze does that sort of trip pretty well. 160 KTAS at 5.5 gph. One passenger *or* luggage. You might want to consider a Long EZ instead for a bit more elbow room, if you're on the larger side.
 
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