3rd class medical dui/felony

I have a past. I gathered all the information needed and got it done. You can probably get it done too. OP, you will find a measure of the flying community to be quite forgiving of past transgressions and willing to help when they can. However, as you can see, that is not always the case. Ignore the noise, that's all it is, noise.
ETA: I would be happy to tell you about my deal if it would help you. Shoot me a PM if you need to.
 
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dryad001 said:
Ehh, maybe maybe not. I guess we'll see. If the ppl doesnt work out so be it, all i can say is i tried my hardest and thats good in my book. Even if the AP doesnt work out i have a vast knowledge of my prior industry and still get calls to come work for company x,y,z. So James are you here to keep giving me a label? Or do you want to try and be a part of the community and try and give some constructive ideas which seems like everyone else has?
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Good luck to you. As far as the moralizing, there's one or more in every thread here...
 
James331 said:
:rolleyes2:

How many other cars and items did you steal before you got caught?

If you do get into the industry you'll have to lie by omission about stealing cars, I don't know anyone who would trust their aircraft/credit card numbers/saftey/etc to a car theif, I sure as hell wouldn't.
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Absolutely nothing. The last company I worked for knew everything about me and had my entire background scrutinized before handing me a company credit card. Didn't even think of it once because this was one of those times in life the owner of a $100M company has trust in you. I had to account for every purchase ever made, I still feel bad for resigning my position with the people, customers, and contractors I had to deal with on a daily basis.

But thieves, I have zero mercy and believe they should be shot on sight, what if that car belonged to a single mom with no insurance and no other way to get to work, he would have just devastated that family.
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Well, I guess if you think you have enough guts to shoot on sight, I guess your man enough to take a murder rap. If you want me to pull court cases out Id be more than happy to.

Not all AMEs are the same, some will defer certain things, some won't. Not all RFSs are the same - sometimes AMEs will call for advice and not all the advice will be the same.

This is another reason why you want to know ahead of time that you will pass, don't leave anything to chance.
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Nor do I plan to. So far the last 24 hours has given me a lot of knowledge.

I have a past. I gathered all the information needed and got it done. You can probably get it done too. OP, you will find a measure of the flying community to be quite forgiving of past transgressions and willing to help when they can. However, as you can see, that is not always the case. Ignore the noise, that's all it is, noise.
ETA: I would be happy to tell you about my deal if it would help you. Shoot me a PM if you need to.
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PM sent

Good luck to you. As far as the moralizing, there's one or more in every thread here...
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We can all thank Al Gore for inventing the internet! :yes::no::dunno:
 
mikeinbama said:
I have a past. I gathered all the information needed and got it done. You can probably get it done too. OP, you will find a measure of the flying community to be quite forgiving of past transgressions and willing to help when they can. However, as you can see, that is not always the case. Ignore the noise, that's all it is, noise.
ETA: I would be happy to tell you about my deal if it would help you. Shoot me a PM if you need to.
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Wasn't your checkride today?
 
Go to mexico. Get a good tan and learn the language so you have a little accent.

Run across the border. Boom, new identity.
 
Not to be too picky, but you're studying to be an A&P not A@P. That's "A and P" not "A at P".
 
Matthew said:
Not all RFSs are the same - sometimes AMEs will call for advice and not all the advice will be the same.
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And I remember Doc Bruce sharing stories that not all RFS's have the drive or desire to provide good help and service. I remember a few stories about some RFS's that are as helpful as he is, and others are the polar opposite.


Still a good idea to check in with your local RFS if you can. Until you reach out, you won't know if he is helpful or not.

As always, for cases like the OP's, emphasize you're trying to do a consultation first. Never go on official record (aka submit an 8700-8) until you know you're gonna get the certificate the first time and with minimum trouble from OKC.
 
dryad001 said:
Thanks flyingron, thats what im gathering here.

I already have my driving record coming, the only thing on there are the 2 duis. It also states that treatment was done. It needed to be for me to get my dl back anyways.

Ive been waiting for an expungment date but with my current governor...well lets say we dont see eye to eye. He has stated that there will never be an expungement while he is in office.
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Others might have better info, but I don't think "expungement" would help your documentation to the FAA. Even if it was expunged, the FAA could still one day find out that the events occur, and then you'd still have lots of 'splaining to do, Lucy.


Getting your driving record from the state is a required item. Add to your list the full arrest records. The list of what you need to obtain is long, but not difficult. Essentially what you're gathering is to show, "When I was young and dumb, I was a complete screwball and yeah, I made mistakes. But know that I am much older and wiser, I'm not that person, and I have these records and documents to demonstrate that."

And then if and once you're granted the certificate, you know have a HUUGE incentive to NEVER eff up again!
 
upstateny said:
Not to be too picky, but you're studying to be an A&P not A@P. That's "A and P" not "A at P".
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You never know, he could be studying to work in one of these....

524a0e2f72f54.preview-620.jpg
 
AggieMike88 said:
And I remember Doc Bruce sharing stories that not all RFS's have the drive or desire to provide good help and service. I remember a few stories about some RFS's that are as helpful as he is, and others are the polar opposite.


Still a good idea to check in with your local RFS if you can. Until you reach out, you won't know if he is helpful or not.
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My very first medical was deferred. My AME called the RFS for advice, AME was told to defer. A couple weeks later I discovered Doc Bruce. He was surprised I was deferred, then he found out who my RFS was and sighed.

dryad001 said:
RFS? Regional Flight Surgeon?
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Yeah. The Airmen Medical Examiners report to a Regional Flight Surgeon who reports to Oklahoma City.
 
dryad001 said:
RFS? Regional Flight Surgeon?
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Matthew said:
Yeah. The Airmen Medical Examiners report to a Regional Flight Surgeon who reports to Oklahoma City.
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But, Dryad, when you work with one of the very few top shelf Senior AME's like Dr. Chien, you're availing yourself of an AME who is well known and respected by the 4 or 5 top level doctors (the big swinging di.. err, decision makers) at FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute (the place that administers the medical certification system) and will take his phone call.

What I mean is, Bruce has worked hard to earn his chops and access to these top docs. It's these docs that have an ultimate say in the cases that don't meet the run-of-the-mill standard and require a high authority to sign off. While Bruce will work with an RFS as needed, he also has the ability to reach beyond the RFS to work his craft.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
But didn't you compare stealing a car to capital murder?
"Should be shot on sight" I think you said.

Why do you get to determine where the line of zero tolerance is drawn?
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You haven't figured that one out yet?:dunno:

He's perfect. He sets the rules. The rest of us just follow them.
 
retailguy said:
You haven't figured that one out yet?:dunno:

He's perfect. He sets the rules. The rest of us just follow them.
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WTF are you talking about?

When did I say I follow all the rules, heck nine times out of ten I'm speeding.


There are some I don't break some, like theft, that rule is a rather old one, one of the first ten, Thou shalt not steal. I also wasn't brought up to steal and lie.

As I said before, if you can read, I screw up plenty, I just don't screw up on that magnitude.

You guys have quite a bit of love for criminals eh?

After having my home broken into, I just dont have the bleeding heart you do :dunno:

Now if you break into a garage to steal someone's chit, they put you down, in quite a few states thell just scrape your caucus up ask if victim (that the guy who house you broke into) if he is OK, and go have lunch.

NY NJ CA and a few others on the other hand, they celebrate low lifes and offer many benefits to them.
 
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No but the problem is (And this is going to get us thrown into the SZ)
You are being hypocraful (I know it's not a real word)

In one breath you get upset stating:
"If you compare me going 10over the speed limit or drinking a beer while snowboarding to stealing someone car or breaking into a home, you got issues."

So clearly this comparison is not to your liking

In the next breath
"I have zero mercy and believe they should be shot on sight
What if that car belonged to a single mom with no insurance and no other way to get to work"

You have the car thief getting the same (worse actually) punishment than a person who kills that single mom.

Nobody is excusing the behavior. Nobody is defending it or saying he is right
but you don't get to group crimes together as you see fit and not allow others to do the same.

This is hypocrisy at its finest.

I think it only works if you restate it like this:

"If you compare me going 10over the speed limit or drinking a beer while snowboarding to stealing someone car or breaking into a home, you got issues. and I know because I have issues too, check out this wack ass belief I have. I have zero mercy and believe they should be shot on sight"

That works otherwise you are not engaging in thoughtful conversation but rather just making loud sounds.
 
James331 said:
WTF are you talking about?

When did I say I follow all the rules, heck nine times out of ten I'm speeding.


There are some I don't break some, like theft, that rule is a rather old one, one of the first ten, Thou shalt not steal. I also wasn't brought up to steal and lie.

As I said before, if you can read, I screw up plenty, I just don't screw up on that magnitude.

You guys have quite a bit of love for criminals eh?

After having my home broken into, I just dont have the bleeding heart you do :dunno:

Now if you break into a garage to steal someone's chit, they put you down, in quite a few states thell just scrape your caucus up ask if victim (that the guy who house you broke into) if he is OK, and go have lunch.

NY NJ CA and a few others on the other hand, they celebrate low lifes and offer many benefits to them.
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I was pretty clear in what I said and I meant every word. Your 10 sentence diatribe notwithstanding.

Look at your reaction to what I said about you. Now compare that to the OP's reaction to what you said about him.

Guess who I have respect for? :yes:
 
AggieMike88 said:
Others might have better info, but I don't think "expungement" would help your documentation to the FAA. Even if it was expunged, the FAA could still one day find out that the events occur, and then you'd still have lots of 'splaining to do, Lucy.
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I believe that is correct.

FAA is less concerned with legal intricacies than they are with medical implications, which is why you must report DUI and/or alcohol/drug ARRESTS or MOTOR VEHICLE ACTIONS as opposed to reporting only convictions.

Even if your arrest is later disallowed or plea bargained down, it must be reported.
 
retailguy said:
I was pretty clear in what I said and I meant every word. Your 10 sentence diatribe notwithstanding.

Look at your reaction to what I said about you. Now compare that to the OP's reaction to what you said about him.

Guess who I have respect for? :yes:
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I didn't think Texas was full of bleeding hearts, I'd expect this argument from a Prius driving Californian :rolleyes:


Check back when your house gets broken into, or a family member gets robbed.
 
Mason said:
I believe that is correct.

FAA is less concerned with legal intricacies than they are with medical implications, which is why you must report DUI and/or alcohol/drug ARRESTS or MOTOR VEHICLE ACTIONS as opposed to reporting only convictions.

Even if your arrest is later disallowed or plea bargained down, it must be reported.
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When you say disallowed, is this equivalent to a judge dismissing the charge?

Question for Ron Levy (or similar FAR-knowledgeable); What type of law enforcement arrests (or offenses) trigger the requirement to report the event to the FAA
 
AggieMike88 said:
But, Dryad, when you work with one of the very few top shelf Senior AME's like Dr. Chien, you're availing yourself of an AME who is well known and respected by the 4 or 5 top level doctors (the big swinging di.. err, decision makers) at FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute (the place that administers the medical certification system) and will take his phone call.

What I mean is, Bruce has worked hard to earn his chops and access to these top docs. It's these docs that have an ultimate say in the cases that don't meet the run-of-the-mill standard and require a high authority to sign off. While Bruce will work with an RFS as needed, he also has the ability to reach beyond the RFS to work his craft.
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Agreed. When I last went to see Doc Bruce last year, it was on the first day that the FAA was open after sequester. He was working the phone HARD for some 1st class medical pilots whose livelihood was delayed by the government shutdown, and you could tell he was respected in Oklahoma City. He is the man, and it will be the best money the OP can spend.
 
James331 said:
I didn't think Texas was full of bleeding hearts, I'd expect this argument from a Prius driving Californian :rolleyes:


Check back when your house gets broken into, or a family member gets robbed.
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Dude, give it a rest. I am in Alabama, maybe the most gun toting, criminal shooting state of them all. I have a house full of guns and if someone breaks in my house while I am here they will be shot. However, I also realize that even criminals are people not trash. People do change, I know because I am someone who changed. Please stop with your diatribe because you are losing what little bit of credibility you MAY have had. You sure you don't fly a CTLSILMNOP?
 
dryad001 said:
To give a history

1-15-96 Class I felony (driving without owners consent)
11-1998ish (1st DUI)
1-2004 (2nd DUI) This was the last ticket I have ever received.

These are the 3 things that have haunted me my adult life, I am now 37. I just left my well paying job to pursue a career in aviation as a A@P. To make myself more marketable (I will stay in the GA realm of thing and have no desire to move to the major carriers) I decided to take an intro flight and instantly fell in love with it. When I got a sample of the 3rd class medical and decided to do some digging of the Alcohol related and arrest offenses and none seems to be what Im looking for. So my questions are below

1. Am I better off as just an A@P with no hope of ever becoming a pilot?
2. Do I even try for a 3rd class medical with my prior history?

Thanks for any input
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OP, I'm usually pretty harsh with people who come on here with bad stories who are effectively asking how to try to get around the FAA by being less than truthful. They usually post anonymously and this is their first post on POA.

I get the sense that you are different, are looking to turn things around, and are trying to do things the right way. You have some hills to climb, but you seem pretty motivated. I wish you good luck on completing your A&P, and hopefully getting your ASEL. I can fully endorse hiring Dr. Bruce.
 
You live in my hometown Stan. Hows the weather there?

My school semester is winding down and have the contact info for Dr chein and will call him when im off so my head isnt going in 10 different directions trying to prep myself for finals next week.
 
dryad001 said:
To give a history

1-15-96 Class I felony (driving without owners consent)
11-1998ish (1st DUI)
1-2004 (2nd DUI) This was the last ticket I have ever received.

These are the 3 things that have haunted me my adult life, I am now 37. I just left my well paying job to pursue a career in aviation as a A@P. To make myself more marketable (I will stay in the GA realm of thing and have no desire to move to the major carriers) I decided to take an intro flight and instantly fell in love with it. When I got a sample of the 3rd class medical and decided to do some digging of the Alcohol related and arrest offenses and none seems to be what Im looking for. So my questions are below

1. Am I better off as just an A@P with no hope of ever becoming a pilot?
2. Do I even try for a 3rd class medical with my prior history?

Thanks for any input
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What's it worth to you? Do you need capabilities besides what Sport Pilot allows?
 
James331 said:
I didn't think Texas was full of bleeding hearts, I'd expect this argument from a Prius driving Californian :rolleyes:


Check back when your house gets broken into, or a family member gets robbed.
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My God you make a lot of assumptions. You don't know a D@MN thing about me. Both of those things have happened to me, and I've had my identity stolen, but guess what? This guy didn't do it...

Time to grow up.... Perspective!!!! Try it out sometime.

It always saddens me to virtually talk with someone INCAPABLE of admitting wrong and that they screwed up.... You owe the OP an apology. Sadly, you do not know why.
 
dryad001 said:
To give a history

1-15-96 Class I felony (driving without owners consent)
11-1998ish (1st DUI)
1-2004 (2nd DUI) This was the last ticket I have ever received.

These are the 3 things that have haunted me my adult life, I am now 37. I just left my well paying job to pursue a career in aviation as a A@P. To make myself more marketable (I will stay in the GA realm of thing and have no desire to move to the major carriers) I decided to take an intro flight and instantly fell in love with it. When I got a sample of the 3rd class medical and decided to do some digging of the Alcohol related and arrest offenses and none seems to be what Im looking for. So my questions are below

1. Am I better off as just an A@P with no hope of ever becoming a pilot?
2. Do I even try for a 3rd class medical with my prior history?

Thanks for any input
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I know Dr. Chien personally. I went through a loss of my medical a few years back. He initially told me that I'd never get it back. Let it lapse, to get myself a champ and just go fly.

I told him that my plans included travel with my wife and my two teenage daughters and it'd be tough getting them into the champ....:lol:

When he realized I was serious, that my Doctor supported this, and that there might be a way, I found no better advocate. I spent a lot of money, it took a lot of time, and a lot of patience, but today I fly a travel air and a 182.... Life is good.

If you want a personal introduction, PM me. I'd be happy to connect the two of you. Heed the advice given though. Disclose everything upfront. Doc does this basically for free as compared to regular doctor salaries, and has no patience for surprises.

His fees to me over the last few years have been very modest and a great bargain. The advice and guidance is invaluable....
 
James331 said:
I didn't think Texas was full of bleeding hearts, I'd expect this argument from a Prius driving Californian :rolleyes:


Check back when your house gets broken into, or a family member gets robbed.
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I have experienced break-ins of a house and two cars.

James331 said:
There are some I don't break some, like theft, that rule is a rather old one, one of the first ten, Thou shalt not steal. I also wasn't brought up to steal and lie.
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Does your copy of The Ten Commandments say "Thou shalt not kill, except thieves?
 
retailguy said:
You owe the OP an apology. Sadly, you do not know why.
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Not looking for an apology or sympathy. But it is kind of funny that my brother (ATP pilot) and I are the only ones to make it out of our "neighborhood upbringing". All the other people I grew up with are either in jail, prison, dead, or still stuck in the same place since they didnt have the drive to change. Sadly I was caught up in almost going down the same path but the best thing I ever did was remove myself from that environment and its been great ever since.

I have come a long way since those days, I own my own house, have a great wife, go on nice vacations, etc. So for all you nay-sayers out there. YES, people can change, not just myself but a lot of others as well. Ive voluteered a lot of time to shelters, working with inner city kids, food pantrys, etc. I encourage everyone to watch this video and read his book, its excellent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk56VxaeqEQ

Its funny if you think about it. For the crime I committed I have to live with it in the free world and make a go of it, while someone else who was charged with something more serious can sit in court and not say a thing get thrown in the slammer and get everything for free for the rest of their lives. So who really has it harder?


To get back on the subject. Ive spent most of last night writing down my plan to get this moving forward. I put a call into my former employer to write a letter of recommendation. I ahve all the phone numbers, email addys, local AMEs, everything off of the FAA.gov site pertaining to my "problem"

... time to head to school

Thanks again everyone
 
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Good luck to you. You've gotten some good advice here (and a few naysayers).

Keep in perspective that the FAA's role is be "answerable" to the Congress should something bad happen as a result of their grant of a license/medical. So they want some assurance that the folks they approve will "fly straight". You've got the right attitude - document that you're low-risk and you stand a pretty good chance of approval. Folks like Dr. Bruce will go out of their way to help, but they also want to be sure as their reputations are on the line. Some agencies take a "one strike, yer out" attitude, with the right advocates the FAA can be different.... but they're taking a measured amount of risk w/ the politicians.
 
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