3934V

[Tom-D]

3M Fine Line tape works well for me.

That is what was used here. Black plastic electrician tape works better, but it is impossible to make a straight line with that stretchy stuff.

 

[Henning]

I want to see one you have done that's better.

I do them on boats frequently, the key is to draw your square blocks first.

 

[Tom-D]

I do them on boats frequently, the key is to draw your square blocks first.

show us

 

[tehmightypirate]

I checked them today, sure enough BOTH are crooked, the stencil must have been cut that way, because we have a matching set.

Now you'll never be able to unsee it. Scrap it and start over, airplanes ruined.

 

[jaybee]

Have you tried to use the new masking tapes? they simply can't be made to stick to tight corners around the rivets, I went over that many times trying to get the tapes to lay down.

A little rubbing compound and a pencil eraser will clean them up.

When I worked in a body shop we used super thin tape (1/8") that looked like pinstriping to make the line, then used masking tape to back tape it.

 

[Tom-D]

Now you'll never be able to unsee it. Scrap it and start over, airplanes ruined.

I'll learn to live with it.

I talked to the sign shop who cut the stencil they looked at their computer model and yep they cut it wrong.

not much I'm going to do with it now.

 

[denverpilot]

Ahh, hardly noticeable, and it gives it character.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I'll learn to live with it.

I talked to the sign shop who cut the stencil they looked at their computer model and yep they cut it wrong.

not much I'm going to do with it now.

I'd leave it myself, but if it ever really gets to you, you could just repaint the stripe solid green and add the N-number in green below the stripe like the originals.

 

[iflyvfr]

That plane looks incredible. The pictures documenting probably don't capture the amount of effort to get it this close to completion, but they are impressive.

Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, when I saw the pic of the new harnesses, I was thinking those are a bit of a chore to install but there's no mention of level of effort.

 

[Tom-D]

Yeah, when I saw the pic of the new harnesses, I was thinking those are a bit of a chore to install but there's no mention of level of effort.

The most difficult portion of this restoration was getting the old paint off. adding the modifications was pretty easy.

 

[weirdjim]

The most difficult portion of this restoration was getting the old paint off. adding the modifications was pretty easy.

Did you leave the original C-145 on or hang an O-300 on it?

Jim

 

[tehmightypirate]

I'll learn to live with it.

I talked to the sign shop who cut the stencil they looked at their computer model and yep they cut it wrong.

not much I'm going to do with it now.

Seriousness: I agree with the others, it adds character. Shame they weren't all crooked, that would be neat. Stencil company gonna give you your money back?

Either way, that green you chose is VERY nice looking. Really jealous of the color as it sure beats the sea of white planes are always painted in these days.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Did you leave the original C-145 on or hang an O-300 on it?

Jim

Realistically, what is the difference?

 

[bluerooster]

Have you tried to use the new masking tapes? they simply can't be made to stick to tight corners around the rivets, I went over that many times trying to get the tapes to lay down.

A little rubbing compound and a pencil eraser will clean them up.

I use fineline striping tape. It works better than paper tape, but it's still a pita to get it to hang in over rivits, and such.

 

[Tom-D]

Realistically, what is the difference?

Data tag, until you have a -B-C-D

 

[Tom-D]

Stencil company gonna give you your money back

For that amount of money, it will cost more to go get it.

 

[Tom-D]

I use fineline striping tape. It works better than paper tape, but it's still a pita to get it to hang in over rivits, and such.

have you tried to cross over one tape with another, it will bleed under every time.

 

[Tom-D]

Did you leave the original C-145 on or hang an O-300 on it?

Jim

This aircraft was upgraded to the 0-300-D prior to my owning it. I simply overhauled a 145 hour since new engine. It came from the factory with a M10 crank. That Pizzed me off to no end.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I know what a -D is. How about a primer on what the differences are between the several models?

 

[Tom-D]

I know what a -D is. How about a primer on what the differences are between the several models?

The introductions

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/MaintenanceManuals/X30013/X30013.pdf

 

[N801BH]

I use fineline striping tape. It works better than paper tape, but it's still a pita to get it to hang in over rivits, and such.

You think fineline tape is a PITA... Try installing large vinyl 12" N numbers over hundreds of Avex, raised, pulled rivets..... I bet I spent 10 hours with a blow dryer heating up the area around each rivet and using my fingernail to "bed" the vinyl around each rivet head to make it look professional... It has been on for 12 years and so far it still looks great......

 

[poadeleted21]

You think fineline tape is a PITA... Try installing large vinyl 12" N numbers over hundreds of Avex, raised, pulled rivets..... I bet I spent 10 hours with a blow dryer heating up the area around each rivet and using my fingernail to "bed" the vinyl around each rivet head to make it look professional... It has been on for 12 years and so far it still looks great......

That's a huge picture.

Those look like some EPIC skiing lines on those mountains behind you. I bet they're a ***** to skin to though.

 

[N801BH]

That's a huge picture.

Those look like some EPIC skiing lines on those mountains behind you. I bet they're a ***** to skin to though.

That pic is pointed to the south end of Grand Teton Park boundry....

This one shows Jackson Hole Mountian Resort.... That peak had lifts serving it......

 

[poadeleted21]

That pic is pointed to the south end of Grand Teton Park boundry....

This one shows Jackson Hole Mountian Resort.... That peak had lifts serving it......

Never made it Jackson Hole, not really into traveling that far to stay in bounds, always wanted to get corbits coulair though.

 

[bluerooster]

have you tried to cross over one tape with another, it will bleed under every time.

Not if you don't pull it too tight, and stick it down with your thumbnail where it crosses.

 

[denverpilot]

Another thought. I like that you did NOT do 12" N-numbering. Classic aircraft look better with their original size numbers.

 

[Henning]

Another thought. I like that you did NOT do 12" N-numbering. Classic aircraft look better with their original size numbers.

But then, original size on old planes is huge and under the wings.

 

[Tom-D]

But then, original size on old planes is huge and under the wings.

when did they stop doing that.?

 

[Henning]

when did they stop doing that.?

Not sure, I occasionally still see it.

 

[JoseCuervo]

when did they stop doing that.?

Weren't they the "NC-xxxx" numbers?

 

[Tom-D]

Weren't they the "NC-xxxx" numbers?

C = airline, commercial and private
G = glider
L = limited
R = restricted (such as cropdusters and racing aircraft)
S = state
X = experimental

 

[Tom-D]

Not sure, I occasionally still see it.

Today when you see it, what are you seeing ?

 

[kgruber]

Dec 31, 1960 (Thank you Bing)

Aircraft N-Number History
Print
Where do N-numbers come from?
The U.S. received the "N" as its nationality designator under the International Air Navigation Convention, held in 1919. The Convention prescribed an aircraft-marking scheme of a single letter indicating nationality followed by a hyphen and four identity letters (for example, G-REMS). The five letters together were to be the aircraft's radio call sign.
In the original 1919 allotment, most of the nations shared first letters. Only U.S. and four other nations were assigned a unique first letter to be followed by any combination of four letters. In each case, that first letter was the same as a radio call letter that had been previously assigned to that nation by an evolving series of international agreements. As of April 1913, for example, Great Britain had complete rights to the radio letters B, G, and M, while sharing certain other letters. Not surprisingly, Great Britain received G as its aircraft nationality identifier under the 1919 agreement.
During this era, the U.S. had complete rights to the radio letters N and W, and to combinations of K from KDA to KZZ. Why these particular letters? The assignments of W and K appear to have been arbitrary, according to articles on early radio call signs by Thomas H. White. In the case of N, Whites notes that the U.S. Navy had used this radio letter since November 1909.
This still leaves the question of why N was chosen over W for the U.S. aircraft identifier. The answer may lie in the fact that the Government had reserved N for itself, while assigning combinations beginning with K and W to various radio stations along geographic lines. N would therefore be less confusing as a single national marking for aircraft.
The choice was not universally popular. The Journal Aviation wanted the U.S. to adopt W in honor of the Wright brothers. Use of the letter N in the early days seems to have been restricted to aircraft that made international flights. Compliance was voluntary at this time, since the U.S. did not ratify the 1919 Convention.
No mention of N numbers appeared in the initial Air Commerce Regulations placed in effect by FAA's first predecessor agency in December 1926. The letter markings that this original set of rules specified were C (commercial), S (state), and P (private), which were to precede the numbers assigned to licensed aircraft. Unlicensed aircraft had numbers, but no letters, at this time.
The earliest legal requirement for the N marking is found in the first general amendments to the Air Commerce Regulations on March 22,1927. These amendments mandated that U.S. aircraft engaged in foreign air commerce display the N at the beginning of its identification markings. Later, this requirement was extended to all U.S. aircraft, regardless of whether they operated beyond the Nation's borders.
A second letter indicating the aircraft's airworthiness category followed the N and preceded the identification numbers. These airworthiness indicators were; "C" for standad, "R" for restricted, "X" for experimental, and later an "L" for limited, (for example, NC1234). This was standard until December 31, 1948, when aircraft registered for the first time were required to display identification marks consisting of only the Roman capital letter "N" followed by the registration number. Existing aircraft operated solely within the United States could continue to display an airworthiness symbol until the first time such aircraft were recovered or refinished to an extent necessitating the reapplication of the identification marks. After December 31, 1950, all aircraft of United States registry operated outside of the United States were required to display identification marks consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" followed by the registration number.
Until December 31, 1960, the required location for display of nationality and identification marks for fixed- wing aircraft was the wing surfaces, and the vertical surface of either the tail or fuselage. Effective January 1, 1960, all fixed-wing aircraft were required to display indentification marks on the vertical surfaces or either the tail or fuselage. Wing surface markings were no longer required.
Current standards for the display of nationality and registration identification marks on U.S. civil aircraft can be found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 14, Part 45, Subpart C.
Our thanks to Ned Preston, former FAA historian, who compiled the majority of this information.

 

[Tom-D]

Dec 31, 1960

Until December 31, 1960, the required location for display of nationality and identification marks for fixed- wing aircraft was the wing surfaces, and the vertical surface of either the tail or fuselage. Effective January 1, 1960, all fixed-wing aircraft were required to display indentification marks on the vertical surfaces or either the tail or fuselage. Wing surface markings were no longer required.

There ya go, thanks Karl.

 

[Henning]

Today when you see it, what are you seeing ?

Usually vintage style paint jobs, but I see it on Bonanzas some which would bring the date into the postwar era.

 

[Tom-D]

Usually vintage style paint jobs, but I see it on Bonanzas some which would bring the date into the postwar era.

Read Karl's post, then do the math. the Bonanza came out in 47. the requirement went away in 1960.

when you see big numbers on the top of the right wing and the bottom of the left they are simply a paint scheme, no official requirement. There must be other "N" number to meet the requirements of FAR 45.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Read Karl's post, then do the math. the Bonanza came out in 47. the requirement went away in 1960.

when you see big numbers on the top of the right wing and the bottom of the left they are simply a paint scheme, no official requirement. There must be other "N" number to meet the requirements of FAR 45.

So, I can paint someone else's N number in big letters on the bottom of the wing "just in case".

Sounds like a plan to me.

 

[Tom-D]

So, I can paint someone else's N number in big letters on the bottom of the wing "just in case".

Sounds like a plan to me.

Really you can.
many of the old restored classics are running a new N with the old big numbers on the wings.

 

[Tom-D]

Finally got the top cowling doors right. ended up stripping them and redoing the paint.

used electrician tape to do the line

 

[denverpilot]

But then, original size on old planes is huge and under the wings.

Some, yes. Not his model.