2017 Cirrus SR-22T G6 $993,000 !

(Stick to Airplanes)

What I can buy for 1MM?

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Gulfstream G3 ($995,000)

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Hawker 800A ($600,000)

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Piper Meridian PA-46-500 (1MM)

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Twin Commander (Almost 2) (595,000)

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Beech Bonanza (Two of them) (499,000)

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THREE Mooney Ovation 2's (And enough money for fuel) 269k

Is the new Cirrus SR22 worth it?! We will have to wait and see.
 
gsengle said:
Other manufacturers need to figure out how to add BRS to light aircraft. It sells (even inferior) airplanes.


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Not to mention other manufacturers need to a) figure out how to get to market or b) stay viable.

And your Cirrus-loathing quip about being inferior is subjective. I'd argue it's not an inferior airplane according to the marketshare numbers. And given balance of performance, comfort, safety, backing, roadmap, company strength, community support, etc. I believe it is superior (which is why I bought it). Which of course is also subjective.
 
The Meridian is pretty badass. I'd step up to that before the Cirrus Jet. But 1) not ready for turbine yet and 2) given TCO and planned missions, I felt that Cirrus was a better choice. Not regretting it one bit, but I do dig those Meridians. Maybe the M600 will push down the price of a kickass M500.
 
You made an assumption. But I do think a large part of Cirrus' success is the chute.

It had horrible safety numbers until a ton of remedial training despite the chute, isn't the fastest or best range. Sure it has comfort. A number of planes have the same avionics and TKS... so yes I think the chute has been a factor and kudos to them.


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gsengle said:
You made an assumption. But I do think a large part of Cirrus' success is the chute.

It had horrible safety numbers until a ton of remedial training despite the chute, isn't the fastest or best range. Sure it has comfort. A number of planes have the same avionics and TKS... so yes I think the chute has been a factor and kudos to them.


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You can get a BRS installed in a Cessna for 25K or less. And..you can buy 10 of those for the cost of 1 cirrus.
 
Caramon13 said:
You can get a BRS installed in a Cessna for 25K or less. And..you can buy 10 of those for the cost of 1 cirrus.
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But thats really slow!


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Caramon13 said:
You can get a BRS installed in a Cessna for 25K or less. And..you can buy 10 of those for the cost of 1 cirrus.
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Not 10 that are remotely comparable to the Cirrus. Speed, avionics, FIKI, air conditioning, excellent autopilot, etc etc etc. We've circled back around to comparing apples and oranges again.

The Cirrus buyer knows what they want, and it isn't a '60s-tech airplane. And they have the cash to decide that.
 
Don't forget, the cost of an airplane is the amount you paid for it MINUS the amount you sell it for. Include cost of money (loan) if you want. So if you buy a plane for 1million and sell it for 800,000, it cost 200,000 NOT 1 million.
 
ZeroPapaGolf said:
Not 10 that are remotely comparable to the Cirrus. Speed, avionics, FIKI, air conditioning, excellent autopilot, etc etc etc. We've circled back around to comparing apples and oranges again.
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There are people who buy Lambos and Maserati's and those who buy a Ford Prius, or ride a motorcycle, etc. But yeah, it keeps coming back to the same conversation over and over again heh..
 
deonb said:
No...

A 100 hour NetJets card for a Hawker 400XP is $400'000. So at 100hrs/year, $1m will last you about 2.5 years.
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Those 100 hours in a Hawker gets you much further than 100 hours in a Cirrus.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Don't forget, the cost of an airplane is the amount you paid for it MINUS the amount you sell it for. Include cost of money (loan) if you want. So if you buy a plane for 1million and sell it for 800,000, it cost 200,000 NOT 1 million.
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I'd imagine a 1mil Cirrus will depreciate like crazy in the first few years.
 
Tantalum said:
I think it's similar to the fact that people who are buying and spending good money on Teslas probably aren't hard core petrol-heads who are going to say that you can buy a used manual BMW/Audi, etc. for less money with similar performance, etc
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Not to hijack the thread BUT.... I can't think of any used or NEW BMW or Audi that will do zero to 60 in 2.5 seconds ! The Tesla in ludicrous mode regularly beats cars at drag strips that aren't even street legal. You can watch it happen on YouTube all day long. That's one of the reasons I have a deposit down on one.

BTW I've got a nicely restored 79 Toyota Landcruiser (BJ-43) diesel for sale if you're interested. ;)
 
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Art VanDelay said:
Not to hijack the thread BUT.... I can't think of any used or NEW BMW or Audi that will do zero to 60 in 2.5 seconds ! The Tesla in ludicrous mode regularly beats cars at drag strips that aren't even street legal. You can watch it happen on YouTube all day long. That's one of the reasons I have a deposit down on one.

BTW I've got a nicely restored 79 Toyota Landcruiser (BJ-43) diesel for sale if you're interested. ;)
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Yes but there is more to autos than straight line one shot acceleration... the batteries can overheat at the track and not do as well...


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Cirrus is the leader selling north of 320 piston singles a year. And now they will lead in the VLJ market too. Are all their customers wrong? No. No one is stopping anyone from buying anything they want at any price point they can afford (or not).
 
MetalCloud said:
Not to mention other manufacturers need to a) figure out how to get to market or b) stay viable.

And your Cirrus-loathing quip about being inferior is subjective. I'd argue it's not an inferior airplane according to the marketshare numbers. And given balance of performance, comfort, safety, backing, roadmap, company strength, community support, etc. I believe it is superior (which is why I bought it). Which of course is also subjective.
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IMO I agree with this, No doubt Cirrus has the best sales. Cirrus knows how to market very well, if you go to Sun and Fun this year check out the Cirrus booth. They have cups, hats, jackets..etc Even if you don't buy an airplane but you love to fly GA you know who they are! I became a member of COPA and Mooneyspace and both sites are awesome but Cirrus doesn't stop there, they find out what you are interested in and then start sending you e-mails based on your interests. You like to travel in your airplane? Fine they will sign you up for travel excursions. Cirrus is doing it right and I'm hoping other companies realize that they can do it to.

gsengle said:
You made an assumption. But I do think a large part of Cirrus' success is the chute.

It had horrible safety numbers until a ton of remedial training despite the chute, isn't the fastest or best range. Sure it has comfort. A number of planes have the same avionics and TKS... so yes I think the chute has been a factor and kudos to them.


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You are right! Cirrus did have horrible accident numbers, but they started having CPPP classes and COPA and changed all of that, it wasn't the airplane but the pilot that needed training...most of the time it is the pilot in any aircraft!

coloradobluesky said:
Don't forget, the cost of an airplane is the amount you paid for it MINUS the amount you sell it for. Include cost of money (loan) if you want. So if you buy a plane for 1million and sell it for 800,000, it cost 200,000 NOT 1 million.
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Exactly! but in the case with the Cirrus what happens if the Cirrus doesn't sell at 800k? (There are a lot of Cirrus SR22 for sale at that price which has very little buyers) You have to lower the price, 800k, 700k, 600k. Hoping that it will sell for a little less than what you paid for it is like playing with fire.
 
citizen5000 said:
Cirrus is the leader selling north of 320 piston singles a year. And now they will lead in the VLJ market too. Are all their customers wrong? No. No one is stopping anyone from buying anything they want at any price point they can afford (or not).
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I agree. I do enjoy flying them as an IP but I don't ever see myself as a sole owner of one. The Cirrus ownership experience requires just too many big checks to be written over the life of the airplane for what I am used to as the owner of an experimental aircraft. A nice RV-7 with twin Dynons and a BRS behind the baggage compartment will be fine for me. :)
 
FloridaPilot said:
Exactly! but in the case with the Cirrus what happens if the Cirrus doesn't sell at 800k? (There are a lot of Cirrus SR22 for sale at that price which has very little buyers) You have to lower the price, 800k, 700k, 600k. Hoping that it will sell for a little less than what you paid for it is like playing with fire.
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Depreciation on G3 and up has not been bad. Regrettably so, I might add.
 
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Art VanDelay said:
Not to hijack the thread BUT.... I can't think of any used or NEW BMW or Audi that will do zero to 60 in 2.5 seconds ! The Tesla in ludicrous mode regularly beats cars at drag strips that aren't even street legal. You can watch it happen on YouTube all day long. That's one of the reasons I have a deposit down on one.

BTW I've got a nicely restored 79 Toyota Landcruiser (BJ-43) diesel for sale if you're interested. ;)
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All well and good, but the Tesla can only do it a handful of times before things get really hot and the battery loses significant capacity. The petrol-counterparts can do it for hours, then refuel in minutes, and do it for hours again. I'm all about the electric automobile, but it's not on-par with sports cars yet. When battery capacity can be equivalent to a tank of gasoline when used in the same manner, we'll talk.
 
drotto said:
Initially, I think the Cirrus initially had a 6000 hrs rating. According to their website they say the have now tested the hull to 12000 hrs, and when needed will look at extending that number. I read that the Cessna TTX currently has a 25000 hrs rating. Diamond has not put a number on their airframes.

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The question becomes, would you feel comfortable teaching spins to a hamfisted student in a high time DA-20 stored outside in the high UV Colorado sun? :)
 
Maybe the thread should have been... "what would you buy for $1 mil other than a Cirrus.." but in all honesty it appeals to that group of well funded individuals who want a clean looking (new) modern aircraft, and the parachute definitely helps the sails figures, I have heard countless times from non av folks ask "do you wear a parachute when you fly those small planes?" and "can they put a whole parachute on the plane?" - so it definitely helps the sails. I know from my limited time in SR20s people do *feel* like they're getting into a safer and more modern plane when they step inside that vs something else

But the point with the car comparison is that just like Tesla found a market to appeal to so did Tesla. Will Cirrus win over the people who want a Mooney or Bo, probably not... but there are people out there who want something fast, sleek, and relatively simple and safe and the Cirrus is their answer. Same way that Tesla probably will not be taking too many sales away (yet) from people who want a manual transmission sports car

Incidentally, this was a pretty cool little video and I'm sure this guy was thrilled to have the chute (doesn't really go into details though what exactly happened with the fuel system):
 
denverpilot said:
The question becomes, would you feel comfortable teaching spins to a hamfisted student in a high time DA-20 stored outside in the high UV Colorado sun? :)
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Actually back when I was based at Buckley in the early 90s one of the FBO's over at APA was the first US dealer of DA-20s. And that was back when they had just the Rotax 912 ul. Notice I said UL and not ULS ! So 80 hp out of APA ! And yes I did indeed instruct out of them but .....they were brand new then and we always hangared them :)
 
Art VanDelay said:
Actually back when I was based at Buckley in the early 90s one of the FBO's over at APA was the first US dealer of DA-20s. And that was back when they had just the Rotax 912 ul. Notice I said UL and not ULS ! So 80 hp out of APA ! And yes I did indeed instruct out of them but .....they were brand new then and we always hangared them :)
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Understood but that wasn't the question asked. They're neat airplanes.
 
SoonerAviator said:
All well and good, but the Tesla can only do it a handful of times before things get really hot and the battery loses significant capacity. The petrol-counterparts can do it for hours, then refuel in minutes, and do it for hours again. I'm all about the electric automobile, but it's not on-par with sports cars yet. When battery capacity can be equivalent to a tank of gasoline when used in the same manner, we'll talk.
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Actually I see a day when ICE sports cars become much like high-end watches. Only prized for the complexity of all their MOVING PARTS !!!

I embrace wholeheartedly the notion of NO more tune-ups, oil changes, oil filter changes, radiator flushes, water pump replacements, belt changes or tightenings, transmission flushes, etc, etc, etc. Am I forgetting anything ?

Honestly why do you want to pay for the upkeep of all those moving parts ? I have a neighbor that regularly drives from Virginia to Florida all in the SAME day in a Tesla. He claims the longest recharging via supercharger station is 30 minutes. And the best part - it's free !
 
Art VanDelay said:
He claims the longest recharging via supercharger station is 30 minutes. And the best part - it's free !
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It's not free, but it's either rolled into the price of the cars or it's subsidized by whoever owned the land the thing went up on. Not saying that's good or bad, but nothing is truly free.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Actually I see a day when ICE sports cars become much like high-end watches. Only prized for the complexity of all their MOVING PARTS !!!

I embrace wholeheartedly the notion of NO more tune-ups, oil changes, oil filter changes, radiator flushes, water pump replacements, belt changes or tightenings, transmission flushes, etc, etc, etc. Am I forgetting anything ?

Honestly why do you want to pay for the upkeep of all those moving parts ? I have a neighbor that regularly drives from Virginia to Florida all in the SAME day in a Tesla. He claims the longest recharging via supercharger station is 30 minutes. And the best part - it's free !
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I never said I didn't welcome the electric car, even as a sports/muscle car enthusiast. I said they aren't on-par with ICE-vehicles in the way many Americans use them, especially not for the current price. I'd love to drive a Model S back and forth to work each day, but it'd never do for a trip to Dallas/KC and back (400+ miles each way) over the weekend without becoming a PITA and extending the travel time by hours. It'll get there eventually. However, the one thing the electrics can't replicate (at least not without humor) is the visceral feeling of hearing the engine and feeling that vibration.
 
denverpilot said:
It's not free, but it's either rolled into the price of the cars or it's subsidized by whoever owned the land the thing went up on. Not saying that's good or bad, but nothing is truly free.
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It's close enough to being free to make me smile the whole way. :)
 
Art VanDelay said:
It's close enough to being free to make me smile the whole way. :)
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Understood. I just don't think the supercharger thing will scale as Tesla goes into mass produced non-rich-guy vehicles. They pushed it pretty hard for the luxury sports cars to get uptake to happen, but they're obviously relying on home chargers for the common man scale size.

The people who bought the expensive version will whine and ***** heavily when they have to sit and wait behind twenty of the cheaper model on that same route during the vacation season while Clark Grizwold charges up the family truckster and the dog pees on the charging unit, lined up waiting for the charger. Haha.

They're about 50/50 the type who are convinced they're better than others, and will happily tell you so. That's the reason they bought the high end one. They needed something to show off at dinner parties. :)
 
SoonerAviator said:
I'd love to drive a Model S back and forth to work each day, but it'd never do for a trip to Dallas/KC and back (400+ miles each way) over the weekend without becoming a PITA and extending the travel time by hours.
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400 mile day trip is nothing. You have to make one 50-minute stop for lunch halfway through.

I dont know if you generally stop for lunch in a 400 mile ICE trip or not, but it's really not a burden to have to make that stop.
 
Art VanDelay said:
It's close enough to being free to make me smile the whole way. :)
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Sadly, it's no longer free starting with vehicles purchased this year and onward.

A bunch of people decided that rather than spending $8 to recharge at home, they'll go to a SuperCharger once a week and wait an hour for it to recharge for free. Why anybody who can afford a $100k car would trade an hour of time for $8 is beyond me, but alas, it happened, they spoiled it for all of us and thus it's no longer free.

It's still cheap though ($100 buys you about 3000 miles, and the first 3000 miles/year is still free), but it's basically now set up so that it costs about the same to SuperCharge as to charge at home.


denverpilot said:
They pushed it pretty hard for the luxury sports cars to get uptake to happen, but they're obviously relying on home chargers for the common man scale size.
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SuperCharging has always only ever been intended for long-distance travel. Owners were always supposed to charge at home, with the exception of people who lived a couple of cities (London, Hong Kong), where that would be impossible.

Case and point - Seattle is the city in the U.S. with the second most Tesla's and there isn't a SuperCharger within 60 miles of here - is was never intended for day-to-day charging. Unfortunately... some people just read "free" instead of "free for long distance travel", and decided to abuse it. Hence the new policy.

Charging at home is anyway the best thing about owning an EV. If you can't charge at home (ok, maaaybe at work), you shouldn't have one.
 
deonb said:
Sadly, it's no longer free starting with vehicles purchased this year and onward.

A bunch of people decided that rather than spending $8 to recharge at home, they'll go to a SuperCharger once a week and wait an hour for it to recharge for free. Why anybody who can afford a $100k car would trade an hour of time for $8 is beyond me, but alas, it happened, they spoiled it for all of us and thus it's no longer free.
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Interestingly enough though if you buy a used one that qualified for free charging you too will get free charges !
 
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