2 doors + low wings?

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Todd82

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Todd
Simple question. Besides the Beech Sundowner and the rest of that series, what else is out there that is 2 doors but low winged? I know Tomahawks too but I'm thinking more in the 4 place variety.

And the 5-figure price variety, before "Pull the Chute" Nation chimes in ;)
 
Sling 4, RV-10, Wheeler Express, White Lighting.
 
Two Mooneys: M20-U, Ovation Ultra; M20-V, Acclaim Ultra. They may accept a five-figure downpayment . . . . :eek:

Mooney models were introduced in alphabetical order, not skipping many letters; there's a reason I fly an M20-C.
 
DA40, although both doors are hinged kinda funny.
 
Bellanca_Pilot said:
Then so does my Bellanca and I had to exit once when the handle broke!


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This is the kind of reason I'm thinking 2 doors. Irrational(??) fears of that kind of stuff, or a minor wreck that jams the door then you get stuck, etc.
 
Todd82 said:
I honestly don't know if I've ever seen one on a ramp. Definitely have heard of them and would love to see one up close someday.
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Sounds more like a Snow Leppard
 
Todd82 said:
Simple question. Besides the Beech Sundowner and the rest of that series, what else is out there that is 2 doors but low winged?
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Todd,

We started out with an Archer club plane then made our first purchase, a Sundowner. We wanted more speed for traveling in our retirement and sold the Baby Beech and bought a Beech Debonair. We didn't like the one door at all but liked the plane and avionics package. Fast forward and with our Debonair gone we are closing on a Commander in the next few weeks. Two doors, very roomy and comfortable, but most important it satisfied the brides must have two doors requirement.

My suggestion is join the aircraft type owners club, good info and airframe specific knowledge along with those hidden gems for sale but not listed anywhere.

Good luck in your search!
 
Gary, 114 ?

I like the Commander. Just gave a flight review in one. Pretty roomy, be prepared for a slew of alarms. I think they have alarms for everything outside of normal ops.
 
EdFred said:
Gary, 114 ?
I like the Commander. Just gave a flight review in one. Pretty roomy, be prepared for a slew of alarms. I think they have alarms for everything outside of normal ops.
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Ed,

After looking at our mission we decided on the 112A. The 114 wasn’t worth the additional 55k for fifteen additional knots.
 
My dad, a private pilot for 40 years, suffered greatly from claustrophobia. He had to have a door next to him while flying. Not that he would use it in flight, of course; it just had to be there. He was fine in the airplanes he owned, a C-150E and a C-172N. But something with the sole door on the wrong side, wasn't gonna happen.
 
Todd82 said:
This is the kind of reason I'm thinking 2 doors. Irrational(??) fears of that kind of stuff, or a minor wreck that jams the door then you get stuck, etc.
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The side windows are very thin acrylic on most of the light singles, and will easily kick out if that helps your irrational fears of getting trapped.

And remember, canopies and gull wing doors don’t open when you’re upside down, either. ;)
 
GMascelli said:
Ed,

After looking at our mission we decided on the 112A. The 114 wasn’t worth the additional 55k for fifteen additional knots.
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It's amazing the premium the market commands when they actually put the correct engine on an airframe. The 112 is basically a much more comfortable Arrow (aka 2+1 useful loads and 130 block speeds). Not a bad gig for a 2+bags mission if speed is not a big driver. If I didn't already have the Arrow dialed in and bought on the cheap, I wouldn't mind slugging around my small odd numbered family in a small engine commander. That thing is roomay.

I hear good things of the Hotshot mod, might give ya some extra speed even at 10K. The stock turbo is a Lyco orphan (TO-360) and the cylinder kits are priced at basically "get a different engine/go away" levels. Otherwise yeah, the NA is just a wide Arrow/Sierra. Congrats.
 
GMascelli said:
Ed,

After looking at our mission we decided on the 112A. The 114 wasn’t worth the additional 55k for fifteen additional knots.
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Blasphemy! You ALWAYS, ALWAYS pay for the additional knots. :D

I didn't know the delta on the 112 and 114 was that much. What are you planning in for that, 135-140 true?

(I didn't have that as a point of reference, since we were in the white arc most of the time)
 
EdFred said:
Blasphemy! You ALWAYS, ALWAYS pay for the additional knots. :D

I didn't know the delta on the 112 and 114 was that much. What are you planning in for that, 135-140 true?

(I didn't have that as a point of reference, since we were in the white arc most of the time)
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Wow! 55 AMU extra for 135 KTAS? That difference alone will buy an entire vintage Mooney, which will go faster, too. Just have to live with one door and not sitting like in the family minivan.
 
Hank S said:
Wow! 55 AMU extra for 135 KTAS? That difference alone will buy an entire vintage Mooney, which will go faster, too. Just have to live with one door and not sitting like in the family minivan.
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The 114 cruises at 160ish. So it's an extra 55k to get to 160 from 140ish. Of course the 55k might not be a direct comparison where it's just an engine swap. And having met Gary, there's no way him and Mary are packing into a C model sardine can. Some of us like to not have appendages fall asleep 45 minutes into the flight. I am not overweight (6-3 190) but I couldn't even close the door on the C due to shoulder width.
 
Beach Sport later model Beach Sundowner - later model... are 2 that come to mind
 
Hank S said:
Wow! 55 AMU extra for 135 KTAS? That difference alone will buy an entire vintage Mooney, which will go faster, too. Just have to live with one door and not sitting like in the family minivan.
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No, 55K is for the premium of the right-sized engine for that airframe, aka the 250HP IO-540 aka the 114 series. The Commanders are slower for the horsepower, which is what you trade in order to have the comfort of that wide cabin. No different than the Cherokee Six trade (though the latter is worse by function of higher empty weight and increased total wetted area).

I think 160 true on a non-suffix 114 is optimistic. You'd be closer to 155 max at 14GPH, with 145-150 a probably decent average-weight average-condition true airspeed for a non-suffix 114, on 12GPH (65% peak). 112s are closer to Arrow speeds on the same gas, which really is more an indictment on the Arrow's craptastic Cherokee wing than on the 112 aerodynamics. So yeah circa 130 true on 9GPH (see below). Useful loads will be less compared to cardinals and Arrows.
upload_2019-3-29_14-20-17.png
(taken from a YT video, fuel flow showed 9GPH at 2400RPM and IO-360 MP conmesurate for density altitude and 65% VSI shows descent but the video had the altitude pegged steady for 10 seconds, so VSI likely inaccurate). At any rate, that's pretty much 130KTAS +/- a knot.

I rather fly the commander at that speed than the Arrow, any day of the week and twice on sunday though. Comfy comfy. The 114 is really the sweet spot and the proper engine sizing, but the premium is indeed that large these days. The thing you gotta be real careful for the 112s is the life limits. They're low compared to the competition. So the Beech Piper Mooney Cessna of the same engine variety (200hp et al) will have significantly longer lives on a resale basis. Find a low hour sample 112 and if you're willing to eat that opportunity cost, it's a good a choice as any. None of these airplanes are getting any newer, especially if one wishes to buy something that hasn't sat for years.

upload_2019-3-29_14-19-25.png
 
GMascelli said:
Todd,

We started out with an Archer club plane then made our first purchase, a Sundowner. We wanted more speed for traveling in our retirement and sold the Baby Beech and bought a Beech Debonair. We didn't like the one door at all but liked the plane and avionics package. Fast forward and with our Debonair gone we are closing on a Commander in the next few weeks. Two doors, very roomy and comfortable, but most important it satisfied the brides must have two doors requirement.

My suggestion is join the aircraft type owners club, good info and airframe specific knowledge along with those hidden gems for sale but not listed anywhere.

Good luck in your search!
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Thanks. I looked at a very well cared for Sundowner a year ago but didn't pull the trigger because it was near the top of my budget at the time and had an 1800hr engine, didn't feel comfortable financially in that situation. Regret it now. Not too many Sundowners on the market, even if as someone here once said "They have an AD for bird strike damage on the trailing edges."

And they're not stuck in wing spar limbo like the PA28s are right now.

For the few PA32 recommendations, that's a bit more plane than we need. And for the Bo's, as a 100 hour w/ minimal complex time guy I don't need to pay for the insurance agent's vacation lol

But thanks everyone!
 
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