1969 Piper Cherokee loose orange hose??

jmarine225

jmarine225

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jmarine225
Well being a new aircraft owner, I'm on to my latest find in the engine compartment. Its a 69 Piper Cherokee 140 and upon opening the pilot side of the engine compartment, I found an orange hose, about 2 inches in diameter laying on the bottom with a loose clamp. The hose goes from an unfiltered air intake on the bottom of the cowling, then into a box on the firewall. I'm guessing maybe its a fresh air vent hose, as it doesn't get routed into the engine at all?
 
It’s known as SCAT hose or tubing and used for non-pressurized air flow.
 
Cooling hose for the electric fuel pump. Re-attach to "box" and tighten clamp - better than the last guy and will work fine, last long time.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Cooling hose for the electric fuel pump. Re-attach to "box" and tighten clamp - better than the last guy and will work fine, last long time.
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Or is it the intake for the carb?
 
He said pilot side, intake for the carb would be in the center. Plus the carb hose would be 4" instead of 2" although the one (hose in question) on my plane is closer to 3".
 
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I should have taken a picture while on was there. Maybe to clarify, there is an unfiltered air scoop on the bottom of the cowling. This air is routed into an approximately 2" orange hose which goes directly into a box, which is welded on the firewall, directly below the windshield on the pilot side of the aircraft. I don't believe there are any additional hoses or tubes connected to this box.
 
No picture required. I know exactly what hose you are talking about. That "box" although not welded contains your electric fuel pump and gascolator. Last thing after installing the lower cowling is to attach that hose.
 
Timbeck2 said:
No picture required. I know exactly what hose you are talking about. That "box" although not welded contains your electric fuel pump and gascolator. Last thing after installing the lower cowling is to attach that hose.
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Thanks. So I just noticed it today when I went to take the pic of the nose cowling. It's disconnected right now from the cowling. That being said, is the aircraft safe to fly with it disconnected?
 
Only takes a few seconds to re-attach and tighten the clamp. I wouldn't fly it that way as the hose with the clamp can flop around and possibly nick something and you have a lot of fuel lines in that area.

edit: oh it is disconnected from the cowling as well, so the hose is just lying in the bottom?
 
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Timbeck2 said:
Only takes a few seconds to re-attach and tighten the clamp. I wouldn't fly it that way as the hose with the clamp can flop around and possibly nick something and you have a lot of fuel lines in that area.
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Okay thanks. It's in a tight spot down on the bottom, reaching through everything but I'll give it a shot.
 
Which side is disconnected, the cowling side or the gascolator side? Normally when the bottom cowling is removed the hose is simply disconnected from the gascolator housing and left attached to the cowling. I agree it can me a tight fit tightening the clamp with the exhaust pipes in the way, but with proper orientation of the clamp and a long screwdriver it isn't that bad.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Which side is disconnected, the cowling side or the gascolator side? Normally when the bottom cowling is removed the hose is simply disconnected from the gascolator housing and left attached to the cowling. I agree it can me a tight fit tightening the clamp with the exhaust pipes in the way, but with proper orientation of the clamp and a long screwdriver it isn't that bad.
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Its the cowling side which is off and the clamp was loose. Oddly enough, I flew it on Friday and thought there was an odd sensation/vibration coming from the engine compartment. Hopefully this was it. Now i get a bit paranoid at times and evaluate everything. Any chance this loose ducting, along with the small gouge/crack in the nose cowling mean something else is going on or am I thinking too much? The nose cowling crack is in a seperate thread.
 
jason gula said:
Its the cowling side which is off and the clamp was loose. Oddly enough, I flew it on Friday and thought there was an odd sensation/vibration coming from the engine compartment. Hopefully this was it. Now i get a bit paranoid at times and evaluate everything. Any chance this loose ducting, along with the small gouge/crack in the nose cowling mean something else is going on or am I thinking too much? The nose cowling crack is in a seperate thread.
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Being paranoid when flying is never wrong.
 
murphey said:
Being paranoid when flying is never wrong.
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Ha. I mean paranoid to the point I think the whole nose cowling is gonna break apart into shreds mid flight!!
 
Do you know how to remove the bottom cowling? It may be easier just to remove the cowling, re-attach the hose to the cowling, re-install the cowling THEN re-attach the other end of the hose to the gascolator housing. Your crack or whatever it is appears to be on the other side of the nose bowl so i doubt it was caused by the loose hose.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Do you know how to remove the bottom cowling? It may be easier just to remove the cowling, re-attach the hose to the cowling, re-install the cowling THEN re-attach the other end of the hose to the gascolator housing. Your crack or whatever it is appears to be on the other side of the nose bowl so i doubt it was caused by the loose hose.
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So in your opinion, you don't believe a vibration of the engine or something would cause both of these things, at the same time?
 
No. I think you have two separate issues. One isn't really an issue, just a SCAT hose that needs re-attached. If the "crack" or hole doesn't have anything rubbing on it from behind, then it was most likely caused from "hangar rash" which is a fancy way of saying something hit it at some point. The hose in question isn't long enough to reach all the way over to where that hole is so I doubt it caused it. Vibration from the engine together with baffling hitting the back side of the nose cowl could have worn through causing that hole. If not, then it was probably as I mentioned, hangar rash.
 
New owner? Should only take 2 1/2 hours, 2 trips to Harbor Freight and some skinned knuckles. Voila, problem solved!
 
iflyvfr said:
New owner? Should only take 2 1/2 hours, 2 trips to Harbor Freight and some skinned knuckles. Voila, problem solved!
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well you may be on to something. First trip to the plane, skinned up the knuckles, all dirty/greasy from reaching inside attempting to fix it and need to go back with tools now to cut off a shredded end of the hose. Hopefully trip two goes better.
 
Not to beat a dead horse and I have read through the AIM, but as the aircraft owner can I replace the scat tubing from the air intake to the electric fuel pump? It’s literally a hose with a clamp on each end.
 
jason gula said:
Not to beat a dead horse and I have read through the AIM, but as the aircraft owner can I replace the scat tubing from the air intake to the electric fuel pump? It’s literally a hose with a clamp on each end.
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If you're that worried about it consult your local A&P. He can always sign off on it once you're done.
 
jason gula said:
Not to beat a dead horse and I have read through the AIM, but as the aircraft owner can I replace the scat tubing from the air intake to the electric fuel pump? It’s literally a hose with a clamp on each end.
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The real answer is no. Another answer is “who would know if you did it?”
 
There are lots of "hoses" an owner can replace provided it isn't hydraulic. But in your case and judging from what you've written so far, have a mechanic handy to run you through it the first time especially if you aren't mechanically inclined.
 
There is a trick to cutting scat tubing—you need to cut the steel wire a couple of inches from the end and bend it in. The clamp goes on the tubing without the wire. There should be maybe 1/2 inch on each side of the clamp that does not have wire on it.

Since you are new to Cherokees, you should also know that the orange tubing going from the air filter to the carb and from the muffler to the carb for the alternate air is not normal scat tubing but special reinforced tubing that won’t collapse under suction. You might want to review Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) CE-14-23 with your mechanic. I have seen several Cherokees with the wrong tubing. Most mechanics—including my old one—were missing that until the SAIB came out.
 
JScarry said:
There is a trick to cutting scat tubing—you need to cut the steel wire a couple of inches from the end and bend it in. The clamp goes on the tubing without the wire. There should be maybe 1/2 inch on each side of the clamp that does not have wire on it.

Since you are new to Cherokees, you should also know that the orange tubing going from the air filter to the carb and from the muffler to the carb for the alternate air is not normal scat tubing but special reinforced tubing that won’t collapse under suction. You might want to review Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) CE-14-23 with your mechanic. I have seen several Cherokees with the wrong tubing. Most mechanics—including my old one—were missing that until the SAIB came out.
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Good information. This scat tubing runs from the air scoop to the gascolator box. Pretty straightforward and easy, after scraping my knuckles up reaching in there.
 
FWIW if you have a hose that has a tendency to slip even when clamped tight, take the hose off, spread a little high temp RTV around the flange and let it cure, then reinstall the hose. In this case previous persons kept tightening the clamp so tight that it eventually cracked and collapsed the spot welded together duct.
 

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What a great idea @bnt83, simple but looks effective. Good advice to include to letting cure first.
 
jason gula said:
Well being a new aircraft owner, I'm on to my latest find in the engine compartment. Its a 69 Piper Cherokee 140 and upon opening the pilot side of the engine compartment, I found an orange hose, about 2 inches in diameter laying on the bottom with a loose clamp. The hose goes from an unfiltered air intake on the bottom of the cowling, then into a box on the firewall. I'm guessing maybe its a fresh air vent hose, as it doesn't get routed into the engine at all?
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it. It's the blue one that'll get ya
 
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